[jurialmunkey]

I have discussed this briefly with Ronie previously, and he suggested making a thread to see the opinions of other skinners.

Since Helix we now have the ability to have other "viewtypes" for the various PVR windows. Also, the various sections have been separated into their own windows. This makes it much more like the rest of the kodi library. The outlier seems to be the EPG.

Currently we have four forced "views" for the EPG: Timeline, Now, Next, Channel. It doesn't make sense (to me) that these are "views" of the epg. It is my opinion that these should also be separated into their own windows and "Now" should be scrapped as it is essentially a duplicate of MyPVRChannels.

This would be of great benefit to skinners -- in particular, being able to use ActivateWindow(MyPVRTimeline) and always go to the EPG Timeline. This would be especially useful for skins like maximinimalism and eminence that use a "hub" menu to navigate various sections. We could also provide alternative viewtypes for the timeline. It would also reduce confusion for users as the PVR would act in a way that is consistent with the rest of the library. Similarly, I can think of my use scenarios where it would be beneficial to directly open the EPG:Next view

What are others thoughts on this?

[Hitcher]

I don't use PVR myself but from a skinning perspective this makes sense.

+1.

[nexusle]

+1

[RockerC]

Could a such change maybe also imply future feature of enabling addons to use the EPG view windows?

I mean that an idea would be to let Python scripts and plugins create lists that use these EPG views?

If so then this could possibly be of great benefit to addon scripters as well.

I thinking about this in regards to the discussion here http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=185479

A good article here from Wired, I think they hit the nail on the head where media centers and streaming services still suffer

http://www.wired.com/design/2014/02/regu...d-copy-it/

It reminded of this 'What to watch on Netflix' flow chart

http://www.silveroakcasino.com/blog/post...tflix.html

I've been trying to counter this myself, so have been working with 'Live TV' the past while (opens last watched channel by default), random playlists, play next show automatically, for those time when you just want

Are there any specific XBMC initiatives to improve usability like this, not just the user interface, but the actual user experience like this? Get back to some 'channel' surfing?

LazyTV, PseudoTV, PseudoTV Live, and similar addons for XBMC also tries to achieve that elusive TV channel surfing or "pseudo channel surfing" experience.

I highly recommend that you checkout all of these addons and their related discussions in these other threads:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=170975
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=90738
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=169032
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=136244
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=141656
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=58787

I think that combining a kind-of pseudo-channel-surfing from your video library with PVR Live TV for free over-the-air in XBMC can be a great for cable cutters

What I believe is lacking is for all these XBMC addons to be much more user friendly to setup and configure the very first time for experienced XBMC users.

Regardless, this article on WIRED is a recommended read http://www.wired.com/2014/02/regular-old...d-copy-it/

[Hitcher]

@RockerC don't forget that skinning PVR isn't a requirement so these windows/dialogs wont be available in all skins.

[xhaggi]

@RockerC don't forget that skinning PVR isn't a requirement so these windows/dialogs wont be available in all skins.

Disagree, it should be required because it is a core feature.

Currently we have four forced "views" for the EPG: Timeline, Now, Next, Channel.
... "Now" should be scrapped as it is essentially a duplicate of MyPVRChannels.

First of all it's up to you which view you add to your skin. You don't need to add the view "Now", each view is optional.
IMO we can drop the "Channel" view because it's only available if we playback a channel and therefor it should be possible to open the DialogPVRGuideOSD for a selected item in the channel list, like we can do with the guide info dialog. I want to know what's upcoming on a selected channel without playback the channel while I'm in the channel list.

It doesn't make sense (to me) that these are "views" of the epg. It is my opinion that these should also be separated into their own windows ...

Mhhh .. i don't see a real benefit for that except that you can directly access the EPG view/window.
Sure the current window is a little bit special because we only support the specific views (EPG, Now, Next, Channel) but did you really think that we need different views for EPG or better that skinners what do provide different view types?

[jurialmunkey]

First of all it's up to you which view you add to your skin. You don't need to add the view "Now", each view is optional.

Actually, this is specifically what prompted this discussion. I was urged to include all views for repo inclusion of Eminence as I originally did not wish to include Now,Next or Channel. I was told it would be confusing for users if a skin was missing functions present in another skin, and as a general rule it shouldn't be up to skinners to skip certain features... personally I think this is a pretty weak argument considering it contradicts the fact we can choose whether to include mouse support, karaoke, peripherals and the pvr in general, but thats what I was told.

Mhhh .. i don't see a real benefit for that except that you can directly access the EPG view/window.
Sure the current window is a little bit special because we only support the specific views (EPG, Now, Next, Channel) but did you really think that we need different views for EPG or better that skinners what do provide different view types?

Having additional viewtypes for the timeline is only an additional side benefit and not really something I particularly care about.

Direct access is my main reason for it. For instance, see maximinimalism where you access all video content from a side menu. This shows the livetv view, you then move over to the left menu and choose tv guide to switch to the epg. As one example, if the views were separate windows then it would be possible for the skin to also use EPG:Channel as a link on the side when something is playing. Much in the same way you might open up the now playing playlist for music.


The other main benefit, imho, is that the epg currently misuses the viewtype switcher button in the sidemenu - viewtypes in all other areas of kodi are simply a different way to display the *same* content; however, the "viewtypes" in the epg show *different* content. Nonetheless, this is not such a big deal if it is truly up to the skinner on what views to include...

[ronie]

this is not such a big deal if it is truly up to the skinner on what views to include...

it's not, like i already explained.

the problem is each of us has a different opinion (and rightfully so) but if everyone starts following their own ideas we end up with all skins supporting whatever parts of pvr they personally like.
so the current deal is that:
1) pvr is optional
2) if you decide to include it, you need to include the whole package

[xhaggi]

Direct access is my main reason for it.

I'm sure you can overcome this if you fire an second <onclick> which set the viewtype of the container. Tested and works for me

Code:

<onclick>ActivateWindow(TVGuide)</onclick>
<onclick>Container.SetViewMode(10)</onclick>

10 -> EPG, 11 -> Now, 12 -> Next, 13 -> Channel

[jurialmunkey]

Sometimes it isnt possible or practical to have a second onclick action - particularly if the menu item is customisable and uses a skin string for the action. Or say I use skinshortcuts script, only one action can be set. Sure I can use an override fot the action but then I am forcing that behavior on the user. Basically im happy to include all views as its not that difficult to do, I just want a little more control over navigation as the current way feels clunky and inconsistent.

At the end of the day its not a big deal either way. Its just something I see as bringing greater consistency with a little more freedom over navigation choices.

[thedeadman]

I have to say that i'm with Jurialmunkey's OP on this one.

[scott967]

Most feedback I get is users want an easy way to access EPG:Timeline, typically from the main menu. I agree that EPG:Channel and the DialogPVRGuideOSD are kind of redundant and EPG:Channel seems like it was included just for completeness.

scott s.
.

[jurialmunkey]

Most feedback I get is users want an easy way to access EPG:Timeline, typically from the main menu. I agree that EPG:Channel and the DialogPVRGuideOSD are kind of redundant and EPG:Channel seems like it was included just for completeness.

scott s.
.

Yep, generally thats the same feedback I get. Having it as a separate window also means it can be mapped to a remote keypress.
I don't mind epg:channel view though I do think dialogpvrguideosd makes it a little redundant . However, I actually think epg:channel would get more use if it was its own window because then it would just be another quick nav button in the side menu like the other pvr views (plus would only be visible when content is playing, preventing the empty window problem). Same thing with Next.