•   
  • 1
  • 190
  • 191
  • 192(current)
  • 193
  • 194
  • 229
  •   
NVIDIA Shield (Android TV set-top box)
(2016-07-17, 05:48)wrxtasy Wrote: 4) quality of the video upscaling ?

I bought a Shield TV recently and I can confirm that the upscaling quality is really poor. 720p looks very blurry, you can immediately tell its not 1080p. Its just as bad as on RPi3 when 720p is beeing upscaled.

I think they are using the simple bilinear upscaling.

I had a Dune HD 303D as a direct comparison, and the Dune does a way better job at upscaling.

Honestly, because of the bad upscaling quality, Imho android players are disqualified as a good media player. The Shield is considered the best android player by what Ive read so far, and even the Shield fails to deliver halfways good upscaling quality. I didnt test the deinterlacing quality of SD or HD content, but I assume its also pretty bad, esp. for SD content.

So basically the stand alone media players with Sigma/Realtek chips still deliver a way better visual quality, but lack some apps like Netflix with 4k support, Youtube with support for 1080p 60fps/4k 60fps etc.

It seems like the x86/x64 devices at this point are the only devices Id recommend for a solid media player, devices like the Intel NUC or Chromebox. And ofcourse some media players with Sigma/Realtek chips like DuneHD etc. Yes you dont have many apps, that you have with android players, but the playback of videos and the image quality is way better than any android player. And you have some plugins for the most popular apps like Youtube, Twitch etc. (talking about DuneHD in particular).

I gotta say Im a bit disappointed with the android players, after testing the Shield. I have a Rpi3 too and a DuneHD player plus a smal x86 media box.

x86 devices offer some very good upscaling methods like lanczos, spline etc. and a pretty good deinterlacing with yadif x2. I dont know any android player that has even remotely close iq in regards of upscaling and deinterlacing.

Rpi3 has the same problem- abysmal upscaling quality and deinterlacing. If youre only watching native 1080p content, the rpi3 is enough, theres no need for a Shield.
(2016-08-18, 15:09)8-BaLL Wrote: So basically the stand alone media players with Sigma/Realtek chips still deliver a way better visual quality, but lack some apps like Netflix with 4k support, Youtube with support for 1080p 60fps/4k 60fps etc.
The main problem with DuneHD is price - they really got overboard with Solo 4k and I think it won't change Sad Shame because I have Prime 3.0 and wanted to upgrade to another Dune. But Solo 4k is more expensive then Prime3.0 was at the release and it has BD player and 7.1 analog output (something I wanted long time ago Wink) buit-in.
Cheers. 8-Ball.

I think you will find AMLogic devices have very good quality Motion Adaptive, Edge Enhancing deinterlacing, and certain AML OS platforms also give you Full motion YADIFx2 for Interlaced DVD mpeg2 ISO playback Wink
I cannot compare upscaling quality to a Shield, but I believe it all done in Hardware on AMLogic by the VPU.

AML Video playback is using Bypass Rendering, Kodi has no say over picture enhancements once video frames are sent to the VPU Hardware. No complaints about Soft upscaled picture quality with all S8xx/S905 LibreELEC devices I develop for. 720p or 1080p is output as 1080p and I let the 4K TV do high quality upscaling. Its all pretty seamless with 720/1080/2160p Refresh switching as well with no mucking around with settings if you get the right AML box.

I'm not trying to bag out the Shield, but asked the original question as this came from a Shield owner over on the HardKernel C2 (AML S905) LibreELEC forums:
Quote:Currently the Shield have no resolution switch (comes with next Android Update). So setting the device to 4K, KODI does the upscaling (Lancos3 Optimised), which is still too soft.) It has frame rate switch, but if it do that, it changes the Color Space to RGB Limited. No fix date confirmed from Nvidia. With the last update they also crashed HW deinterlacing, so nearly everything stutters, looks too soft and color Space is wrong... I am done with the Shield

http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=...15#p153789

So this post now corresponds with what 8-Ball has written. This is the sort of info I need to inform users about in the "Pick the Right Kodi Box" thread.
Thx for the honest feedback. It will help others.

@Draghmar- I agree the Dune Solo 4k is a suboptimal device.

1- because of the unreasonably high price as you mentioned.
2- because it only supports 4k @ 30Hz.

Other than that, the Sigma chips are probably the best as of right now for proper media players with good IQ. They have a good-very good upscaling quality and good deinterlacing for all sorts of content (SD and HD), with a motion adaptive deinterlacing.

Also the audio passthrough and autoframerate sync works best on Sigma devices.

I expect the next Dune player with proper 4k @ 60Hz support to be good again and prolly the best hassle-free out of the box device. I think this is the 1st ARM-based Sigma processor. They will have to iron out all the bugs and make some improvements in their next chip. It was kinda expected that their 1st ARM chip wont come without issues.

@wrxtasy sure thing. Im just trying to find some sort of an upgrade to my old DuneHD players TV303D and H1, which are 1080p players and have no Apps like Netflix, proper Youtube or Twitch app. I thought the android boxes have matured enough, but that doesnt seem to be the case as of yet for the majority of available Android media players.

Right now only x86 devices meet my expectation to the image quality, but then again they lack apps like Netflix and YT with 4k support, unless you run windows I think. It would be nice to have native 4k (60fps) Support for YT, Netflix etc. out of LibreELEC/Kodi.

I hope the next Dune with DualBoot and improved Sigma ARM chip will have a solution for that.
Yes you are between a Rock and a Hard place. 4K HDR10 Netflix, VP9 2160p YouTube is only avail on the Shield currently.
Maybe its just better to let a 4K Smart TV handle those wanted Apps and Linux based OS hardware platforms handle LibreELEC/Kodi.

What the AML guys are pretty interested in is Google Approved AML Hardware running Android TV in the pipe coming soonish from the Chinese tech giant Xaomi with their Xaomi Mi

I'm wondering how the Amazon FireTV2 goes for upscaling now refresh switching and 2160p video output from Kodi is coming from the likes of Davilla with MrMC (Kodi fork) ?

(2016-08-18, 15:09)8-BaLL Wrote:
(2016-07-17, 05:48)wrxtasy Wrote: 4) quality of the video upscaling ?

I bought a Shield TV recently and I can confirm that the upscaling quality is really poor. 720p looks very blurry, you can immediately tell its not 1080p. Its just as bad as on RPi3 when 720p is beeing upscaled.

I think they are using the simple bilinear upscaling.

I had a Dune HD 303D as a direct comparison, and the Dune does a way better job at upscaling.
Is it maybe possible, that you just prefer (overly) sharp upscaling algorithms?
The upscaling on Raspberry Pis is actually quite good.
Quote from another thread:
(2016-07-04, 10:13)noggin Wrote: The Pi series use a Mitchell-Netravali filter for upscaling - which offers a decent quality solution (and is, I believe, implemented in the GPU). You don't have other choices - unlike other platforms.

https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~fussell/cours...tchell.pdf

I know a lot of people like Lanczos3 as a scaling algorithm, but for me it appears to add too many ringing/aliasing artefacts, giving video an artificially sharpened look. (A bit like having the Sharpness control on your TV at anything other than 0 - and nobody should EVER have the sharpness control at anything above 0 (*) Always check a decent frequency grating and set your sharpness so that fine detail isn't masked by artificial edge enhancement...)

(*) Unless you have a sharpness control where 50% = no sharpening and 0% = artificial softening - but these are rare.
Upscaling is always a trade off.
So while you may prefer a sharper looking method, others (who might be sitting closer to their display) may not like these methods because of ringing or aliasing.
The Kodi wiki actually has a nice comparison for most methods:
Quote:Characteristics of different methods:
- Sharpness - Bilinear < Bicubic < Lanczos2 < Spline36 Optim < Lanczos3 Optim < Spline36 < Lanczos3
- Aliasing artifacts - Lanczos3 < Spline36 < Lanczos3 Optim < Spline36 Optim < Lanczos2 < Bicubic < Bilinear
- Ringing artifacts - Bilinear (no ringing) - Bicubic < Lanczos2 < Spline36 Optim < Lanczos3 Optim < Spline36 < Lanczos3
More details can be found here.
A long long time ago, in another galaxy far far away, Sigma actually had a working port of Kodi (then XBMC), but then Sigma didn't do anything with it. I got to see it in action, too.
(2016-08-19, 12:58)Ned Scott Wrote: A long long time ago

You mean when MIPS was still relevant? Tongue
(2016-08-19, 08:34)jd17 Wrote: ...

I understand quite a little bit about upscaling, since Im encoding all my dvds and quite a few HDTV recordings and I know the difference between the filters.

I also saw that discussion about the Rpi upscaling a few months ago, before I went ahead and ordered a Rpi3. Did you actually see that this Mitchell-Netravali sheet is from 1988? What resolution did they use back then? Something like 640x480 IF at all? This crap is stone age old.

The upscaling of specifically 720p content on both the Rpi3 and Shield looks somewhat blurry to me and too soft, compared to the Dune. The Dune is indeed using some sort of a sharpening algorithm (comparable to Lanczos3), which makes it look almost like 1080p from 2.5-3m distance. It doesnt oversharpen things though, there are no dark contours around white objects.

Basically it would be good if we had a choice to pick a sharper or softer upscaling algorithm, like it is the case in openelec on x86 devices where you can chose between spline36, lanczos2, 3, etc.

For now, I think the best combo is a shield for Netflix+YT+etc @4k+60fps and a proper media player like a DuneHD or a x86 device like a NUC, except that the 4k player from Dune isnt recommended and Id wait for the 4k Solo 2 for various reasons. But it doesnt seem like there is a device out there atm that can handle everything properly.
(2016-08-19, 12:58)Ned Scott Wrote: A long long time ago, in another galaxy far far away, Sigma actually had a working port of Kodi (then XBMC), but then Sigma didn't do anything with it. I got to see it in action, too.

And it had handled encrypted dvd AND bluray playback too Smile All under an internal GStreamer player, so sad nothing ever came of this effort.
MrMC Forums : http://forum.mrmc.tv
(2016-08-19, 15:47)8-BaLL Wrote:
(2016-08-19, 08:34)jd17 Wrote: ...

I understand quite a little bit about upscaling, since Im encoding all my dvds and quite a few HDTV recordings and I know the difference between the filters.

I also saw that discussion about the Rpi upscaling a few months ago, before I went ahead and ordered a Rpi3. Did you actually see that this Mitchell-Netravali sheet is from 1988? What resolution did they use back then? Something like 640x480 IF at all? This crap is stone age old.

The upscaling of specifically 720p content on both the Rpi3 and Shield looks somewhat blurry to me and too soft, compared to the Dune. The Dune is indeed using some sort of a sharpening algorithm (comparable to Lanczos3), which makes it look almost like 1080p from 2.5-3m distance. It doesnt oversharpen things though, there are no dark contours around white objects.

Basically it would be good if we had a choice to pick a sharper or softer upscaling algorithm, like it is the case in openelec on x86 devices where you can chose between spline36, lanczos2, 3, etc.

For now, I think the best combo is a shield for Netflix+YT+etc @4k+60fps and a proper media player like a DuneHD or a x86 device like a NUC, except that the 4k player from Dune isnt recommended and Id wait for the 4k Solo 2 for various reasons. But it doesnt seem like there is a device out there atm that can handle everything properly.

Last time I checked SPMC has those HQ scaler that you are looking for.
Hi All,

I'm still troubled with the choice of what to buy. The two options are this Shield vs Q5 Pro. The goal is to have something that plays everything (HEVC, 24p, 2160p60, HDR, 10bits, with all possible audio formats). Even better if it can play directly from the NAS.

About the Q5 Pro I've seen the playback compatibility list of and looks awesome.

Still, I appreciate the power of the Shield plus the Plex Server feature.
Did you already post some test results of the playback of these sample videos on the Shield too?

I have seen the reply from wesk05 but for example it seems the Shield cannot play: 29.970 MPEG2 1080i 4:2:2. Not that it is super important but I'd like to have a 1:1 comparison between to two to know exactly what i'll get or miss buying each of the two set-top-boxes.

Thanks. Smile

PS: any general advice will be really appreciated Wink
(2016-08-20, 14:23)iV1n5 Wrote: Did you already post some test results of the playback of these sample videos on the Shield too?

I have seen the reply from wesk05 but for example it seems the Shield cannot play: 29.970 MPEG2 1080i 4:2:2. Not that it is super important but I'd like to have a 1:1 comparison between to two to know exactly what i'll get or miss buying each of the two set-top-boxes.

Thanks. Smile

PS: any general advice will be really appreciated Wink

I haven't specifically tested the Wiki samples on the Shield, but I can tell you that Shield will fail on 3D MVC (MKV or ISO). The MPEG2 file that you have mentioned can for all practical purposes be ignored. The Shield natively supports hi-res audio, but it will fail in Kodi or SPMC.
(2016-08-20, 14:23)iV1n5 Wrote: Hi All,

I'm still troubled with the choice of what to buy. The two options are this Shield vs Q5 Pro.

IMHO..the Nvidia shield.... i already mention why on this thread
Anthem MRX310 | XTZ 93.23 DIY 5.1 (Seas Jantzen Mundorf) | DXD808 | Oppo 103D | LG OLED 55EC930V | Nvidia Shield | ATV3





(2016-08-20, 14:23)iV1n5 Wrote: I'm still troubled with the choice of what to buy.

The Shield.

The other player doesn't do surround sound with Netflix. Which disqualifies it in any way as a "proper" media player.
  •   
  • 1
  • 190
  • 191
  • 192(current)
  • 193
  • 194
  • 229
  •   



Logout Mark Read Team Forum Stats Members Help
NVIDIA Shield (Android TV set-top box)9
This forum uses Lukasz Tkacz MyBB addons.