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Win HOW TO - Configure Kodi DSPlayer with LAV Filters, XySubFilter & madVR
(2015-07-14, 20:53)meles Wrote: Image
little so and so not showing image. Try this:
[img]http://s25.postimg.org/aposd2zh7/Screenshot_2015_07_14_14_18_10.jpg', '_blank');myWindow.focus();">Image[/img]
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(2015-07-14, 20:55)meles Wrote:
(2015-07-14, 20:53)meles Wrote: Image
little so and so not showing image. Try this:
[img]http://s25.postimg.org/aposd2zh7/Screenshot_2015_07_14_14_18_10.jpg', '_blank');myWindow.focus();">Image[/img]

Switch ReClock from WASAPI Exclusive to Waveout.
Reply
This is project is fantastic. Kodi+madVR+reclock is now unbeatable! There is just this one problem:
First I configured it myself (madvr+lavfilter+reclock) and later on also tried the starter kit. In both cases, whenever I rely on madVR (= everything that is not streaming) and I press pause, the whole GUI freezes along with the video. I cannot see the mouse or the highlighted button. Once I unpause, it is responsive again. Is there any way to fix this?
Reply
(2015-07-15, 23:20)Ceremony Wrote: This is project is fantastic. Kodi+madVR+reclock is now unbeatable! There is just this one problem:
First I configured it myself (madvr+lavfilter+reclock) and later on also tried the starter kit. In both cases, whenever I rely on madVR (= everything that is not streaming) and I press pause, the whole GUI freezes along with the video. I cannot see the mouse or the highlighted button. Once I unpause, it is responsive again. Is there any way to fix this?

What version of madVR are you using? At this point, DSPlayer is only compatible with v0.88.15 and earlier. A new build will be available someone soon that supports newer versions.
Reply
(2015-07-15, 23:20)Ceremony Wrote: This is project is fantastic. Kodi+madVR+reclock is now unbeatable! There is just this one problem:
First I configured it myself (madvr+lavfilter+reclock) and later on also tried the starter kit. In both cases, whenever I rely on madVR (= everything that is not streaming) and I press pause, the whole GUI freezes along with the video. I cannot see the mouse or the highlighted button. Once I unpause, it is responsive again. Is there any way to fix this?
You might try using the backslash "\" to go into windowed mode and then pause. I am also seeing the same thing with a similar MPC-HC implementation using madVR where things go crazy if you try to switch screens out of full screen mode.
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(2015-07-16, 00:16)Warner306 Wrote:
(2015-07-15, 23:20)Ceremony Wrote: This is project is fantastic. Kodi+madVR+reclock is now unbeatable! There is just this one problem:
First I configured it myself (madvr+lavfilter+reclock) and later on also tried the starter kit. In both cases, whenever I rely on madVR (= everything that is not streaming) and I press pause, the whole GUI freezes along with the video. I cannot see the mouse or the highlighted button. Once I unpause, it is responsive again. Is there any way to fix this?

What version of madVR are you using? At this point, DSPlayer is only compatible with v0.88.15 and earlier. A new build will be available someone soon that supports newer versions.

Oh, it is 0.88.17. I'll check it out with 0.88.15 now and report back. Hopefully, that fixes it! Big Grin

EDIT:
AWESOME! It works. Thanks a lot! Didn't expect that small mostly bugfixing updates could break compatibility...

EDIT2:
@Warner306 you said 0.88.15 is the last compatible... your first post advertises 0.88.16 though. I didn't test that version, but you might want to only advertise the last verified version instead of a newer one?
P.S. Latest release is 0.88.18 btw
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(2015-07-15, 23:14)Warner306 Wrote:
(2015-07-14, 20:55)meles Wrote:
(2015-07-14, 20:53)meles Wrote: Image
little so and so not showing image. Try this:
[img]http://s25.postimg.org/aposd2zh7/Screenshot_2015_07_14_14_18_10.jpg', '_blank');myWindow.focus();">Image[/img]

Switch ReClock from WASAPI Exclusive to Waveout.
That is what I had it on. Er ah, I've heard something about having a dll to actually convert rather than bitstream dts hd ma (which I don't do). Arcsoft had one and I think have an install disk that might have the dll. This wonderful plex add-on called couch potato just trashed my media folders, so when it rains it pours. (Couch potato is gone!) Let me know if you think dll might be issue.

I must say I'd like to be able to switch audio codecs around with either Kodi or MPC. Frankly, right now I like FFDshow raw audio for Dolby digital really well, but not as much on HD stuff. It would be nice to do some cork sniffing with the various audio codecs. (A third party, another cork sniffer, also heard differences between Kodi's audio engine (DVDplayer) and the raw FFD codec).
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(2015-07-16, 00:52)Ceremony Wrote:
(2015-07-16, 00:16)Warner306 Wrote: What version of madVR are you using? At this point, DSPlayer is only compatible with v0.88.15 and earlier. A new build will be available someone soon that supports newer versions.

Oh, it is 0.88.17. I'll check it out with 0.88.15 now and report back. Hopefully, that fixes it! Big Grin

EDIT:
AWESOME! It works. Thanks a lot! Didn't expect that small mostly bugfixing updates could break compatibility...
0.88.16 here. I will switch too.
Reply
(2015-07-16, 01:14)meles Wrote:
(2015-07-16, 00:52)Ceremony Wrote:
(2015-07-16, 00:16)Warner306 Wrote: What version of madVR are you using? At this point, DSPlayer is only compatible with v0.88.15 and earlier. A new build will be available someone soon that supports newer versions.

Oh, it is 0.88.17. I'll check it out with 0.88.15 now and report back. Hopefully, that fixes it! Big Grin

EDIT:
AWESOME! It works. Thanks a lot! Didn't expect that small mostly bugfixing updates could break compatibility...
0.88.16 here. I will switch too.
Fixed the issue for me in both kodi and MPC. Unfortuantely, did not fix my audio issue by chance.
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I am back in lavsource jail again. Tried 64 bit lavsource (had installed both), but really can't tell what the deuce is going on with that since no start menu for it. So uninstalled both and just installed 64 bit. That did not work and started getting lavsource error. Uninstalled 64, installed 32 lavsource. Didn't work. Deleted the filters configurations for the lav stuff used. When I go in to add system filters, no lavsource... so I can't setup media filter. I need a vacation. Seems like I've seen something somewhere about 32 vs 64, so I think I am right in sticking with the 32 despite having 64 bit Windows 7.
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Meles: You cannot use 64bit software within 32bit kodi.
As for your audio issue:
I am not even sure why you are trying to do 32bit 96kHz. Most hardware does not support 32bit, only 24bit. 96kHz is way above our hearing levels and will only be detrimental to the audio quality, as most speakers, headphones and whatnot cannot reliably produce vibrations above 20kHz and instead result in intermodulation (= false reproduction of the sound by introducing "noise" at lower frequencies). You can read up on it here: http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

So do not force 32bit nor 96kHz. Stick to 48kHz and 24bit. Also try directsound or waveout instead of WASAPI.
Reply
(2015-07-16, 08:20)Ceremony Wrote: Meles: You cannot use 64bit software within 32bit kodi.
As for your audio issue:
I am not even sure why you are trying to do 32bit 96kHz. Most hardware does not support 32bit, only 24bit. 96kHz is way above our hearing levels and will only be detrimental to the audio quality, as most speakers, headphones and whatnot cannot reliably produce vibrations above 20kHz and instead result in intermodulation (= false reproduction of the sound by introducing "noise" at lower frequencies). You can read up on it here: http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

So do not force 32bit nor 96kHz. Stick to 48kHz and 24bit. Also try directsound or waveout instead of WASAPI.
Thx for the advice. Its late and I just want to update that I've finally cobbled together something that works. I believe that the standard output with LAV audio may be doing high def it just does not show with the dsplayer. When configuring the lav filters I would advise everyone to check the box at the bottom so they show as tray icons. Its very handy to have these in place as you can hover, right click, and left click to get access to information (depends on the icon.)

I won't get into detail until tomorrow, but you hit the nail on the head. In reclock with Kodi I have to set on directsound and waveout. With MPC-HC I can leave both on Wasapi.... Might as well do the detail now... I read up on how to do LAV with MPC-HC and added splitter, splitter source, and audio decoder to the external filters (prefer and block to switch back and forth). The sound on the high def was phenomenal with LAV easily besting Kodi default audio engine and crushing FFDshow raw audio (again mind you we are talking two channel analog on my part.) The FFDshow audio still is the champ in this setup for DD5.1 with an amazingly natural sound, so I plan to use MPC-HC long term to play a lot dd5.1 stuff or maybe I'll figure out how to do this with profiles/presets in Kodi once I am sure (is this possible experts?). Lav audio is very respectable on DD5.1 and arguably superior in a lot of sonic areas, but FFDshow is almost magic with DD5.1 in the midrange and more analog like, amazingly good.

Last I wrote the blasted lavsource was absent and still is so I tried to pull in the above lav filters into Kodi.. My main media rule has:
Source filter: lav_splitter_source
Splitter filter: lav_spliiter
video filter: ffdshow_raw_video_filter
audio filter: lav_audio_decoder
subs filter: xysubfilter

I won't bet my life on it, but the lav video filter in the mix resulted in very choppy performance. I've not exhaustivly tested this and this could have been my laptop thrashing over something unrelated, so I'll need to try LAV video again. The ffdshow raw video filter with madver, reclock, etc. looks exceptional and is a close match with LAV if not identical. Again, only for Kodi DSPlayer did I have to take reclock off wasapi. The above are all different names from the setup headlining this thread except for the subsfilter. I am not a programmer and have no idea of the difference if any. I am just amazed with a few quick tries I was able to get this setup into Kodi.

Thanks much for the article link. Noise is a big deal as is unnecessary signal path and extra gain stages or most anything in the signal path. My main speakers are five ways with a super tweeter up to 40000 hz. I can turn it off with very little impact in the "audible range", but it sure sounds different. I suspect that this is because frequencies outside of the range of human hearing are still part of the original sound and their abscence affects what we hear. I'd never thougth of a trade off with noise and so I am eager to read your link, thank you again.
Reply
(2015-07-16, 09:12)meles Wrote:
(2015-07-16, 08:20)Ceremony Wrote: Meles: You cannot use 64bit software within 32bit kodi.
As for your audio issue:
I am not even sure why you are trying to do 32bit 96kHz. Most hardware does not support 32bit, only 24bit. 96kHz is way above our hearing levels and will only be detrimental to the audio quality, as most speakers, headphones and whatnot cannot reliably produce vibrations above 20kHz and instead result in intermodulation (= false reproduction of the sound by introducing "noise" at lower frequencies). You can read up on it here: http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

So do not force 32bit nor 96kHz. Stick to 48kHz and 24bit. Also try directsound or waveout instead of WASAPI.
Thx for the advice. Its late and I just want to update that I've finally cobbled together something that works. I believe that the standard output with LAV audio may be doing high def it just does not show with the dsplayer. When configuring the lav filters I would advise everyone to check the box at the bottom so they show as tray icons. Its very handy to have these in place as you can hover, right click, and left click to get access to information (depends on the icon.)

I won't get into detail until tomorrow, but you hit the nail on the head. In reclock with Kodi I have to set on directsound and waveout. With MPC-HC I can leave both on Wasapi.... Might as well do the detail now... I read up on how to do LAV with MPC-HC and added splitter, splitter source, and audio decoder to the external filters (prefer and block to switch back and forth). The sound on the high def was phenomenal with LAV easily besting Kodi default audio engine and crushing FFDshow raw audio (again mind you we are talking two channel analog on my part.) The FFDshow audio still is the champ in this setup for DD5.1 with an amazingly natural sound, so I plan to use MPC-HC long term to play a lot dd5.1 stuff or maybe I'll figure out how to do this with profiles/presets in Kodi once I am sure (is this possible experts?). Lav audio is very respectable on DD5.1 and arguably superior in a lot of sonic areas, but FFDshow is almost magic with DD5.1 in the midrange and more analog like, amazingly good.

Last I wrote the blasted lavsource was absent and still is so I tried to pull in the above lav filters into Kodi.. My main media rule has:
Source filter: lav_splitter_source
Splitter filter: lav_spliiter
video filter: ffdshow_raw_video_filter
audio filter: lav_audio_decoder
subs filter: xysubfilter

I won't bet my life on it, but the lav video filter in the mix resulted in very choppy performance. I've not exhaustivly tested this and this could have been my laptop thrashing over something unrelated, so I'll need to try LAV video again. The ffdshow raw video filter with madver, reclock, etc. looks exceptional and is a close match with LAV if not identical. Again, only for Kodi DSPlayer did I have to take reclock off wasapi. The above are all different names from the setup headlining this thread except for the subsfilter. I am not a programmer and have no idea of the difference if any. I am just amazed with a few quick tries I was able to get this setup into Kodi.
You have not specified a video decoder at all, so it will probably be handled by the system. RAW filters expect uncompressed data, such as NV12/YV12 or RGB24 for video or PCM for audio.
If you have issues with LAV video decoding, disable or change the hardware acceleration options within the configuration dialogue. Maybe its buggy on your card/igpu or the selected option is simply unavailable.
As for quality, LAV is doing a fine job decoding video for me.

Also LAV outputs PCM by default, unless you enabled bitstreaming, which is not compatible with reclock. Do not turn it on!


(2015-07-16, 09:12)meles Wrote: Thanks much for the article link. Noise is a big deal as is unnecessary signal path and extra gain stages or most anything in the signal path. My main speakers are five ways with a super tweeter up to 40000 hz. I can turn it off with very little impact in the "audible range", but it sure sounds different. I suspect that this is because frequencies outside of the range of human hearing are still part of the original sound and their abscence affects what we hear. I'd never thougth of a trade off with noise and so I am eager to read your link, thank you again.
If you can hear the difference, then your speakers are clearly not capable of 20kHz+ sounds (or at least one of it isn't. A human ear cannot hear above 20kHz. Most people cannot even hear past 18kHz and tends to drop as you get older. Personally, I can barely get up to 19.5kHz and at that, point its as good as silent. My Headphones do go up to 26kHz and I was unable to hear anything at all between 20kHz and 26kHz. going past the 26kHz threshold, I started hearing things again, as the headphones were unable to reproduce these sounds.

Also, most movies do not offer "higher quality" audio above 48kHz/24bit, so I'm not even sure what you are trying to do with that configuration. Hopefully not listing to Neil Young Bullshit-HiFi tracks xD

As always, to verify, do a blind test, otherwise, you will be biased.

P.S. to everyone else: Stick to 48kHz/24bit. There is no gain or point, only loss and issues if you go above this.
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Ceremony,
Quickly replying. Thanks again. I like the above article and love the test files which I plan to try.

The above wild setup is using ffdshow video decoder raw based on the tray icons. I am not sure how the 32 bit 96khz error in the screen shot came about (likely some bug with Kodi if I had to guess.) That was with LAV audio, wasapi and waveout, and with wasapi and wasapi in the settings. MPC-HC did not generate this error nor did it show 32 bit or 96khz with these settings (and I don't think I hear much of a difference between the three with MPC). Now if I have the ffdshow raw audio decoder hooked up in MPC-HC for the dolby truehd sports demo, that shows 32bit 48khz. That sounds the worst so based on what you are saying I should try to limit this to 24 bit or less and I'll try it!

In a way I am a digital dunce, since I sold off my cd collection back in 1990 and do vinyl only for music. Always interested in digital, concert vidoes, etc. and some can be impressive and some are horrible. Your sense about my feelings on 192khz, 24 bit are right, so you hit the mark I suppose and maybe something is/was upconverting to this and the Kodi error is dead on, yet somehow MPC handles the issue silently.

I've heard smatterings of SACD and DVD-audio over the years and thought they were definitely an improvement over CD. I definitely like dolby truehd and dts hd, yet based on the article is that incorrect? (The article did lose credibility when the author went to the placebo test, etc. discussion and advocated headphones.) What do you recommend doing with various sources. Example, I just put in 24/96 music file (recording of LP) and MPC raw audio shows 96khz, 32bit! What are the best video files for sound. DTS HD, 24bit 48khz? For the typical HTPC enthusiast I would think they would just send the signal over intact and the receiver does what it does? My envy 3d laptop has intel display audio and ATI High Defintion Audio Device (not sure if any of this is a soundcard.)

I think for headphoners and two channel audiofools like myself this is important stuff for getting the best audio and video possible. Given the thread we probably need to reign in the discussion I suppose before Warner calls the forum police.

Of course dsplayer does not play music through Kodi, but could one create media filters for it and its audio codecs to do so? Would that be advantageous vs standard Kodi? (which I just used for the first time today, which shows my experience level with music serving despite my very occaisional use of my Zensonic Z500 in the past for music files.)

Kudos again Ceremony!
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Is the stock menu required, for this to work properly? As I get stuttering of the menu after i start and stop a few movies...


@meles,
I am not as into this topic as it may have sounded like, but lets just recap everything. First of all, I recommend watching these videos by the awesome folks at xiph.org first, as I will not explain why things are the way things are:
https://xiph.org/video/vid1.shtml and https://xiph.org/video/vid2.shtml

The human ear can hear up to 20kHz with very few exceptions. If you want to store 20kHz of analogue audio digitally without any loss, you need to at least double the sampling rate, thus 40kHz or more (Nyquist Theorem). Both CD audio (44.1kHz) and DVD/Bluray audio (48kHz) do cover the full range of the human ear, plus some extra. Most speakers and headphones are only capable of reproducing that range (~20Hz-22kHz). Now if you set up your audio card to output 96kHz and actually send analogue audio above 22kHz, you will actually hear something, as the speakers will vibrate at an unintended lower and hearable frequency. Now if you had some of those pointless fidelity 96kHz and above songs, and will listen to them on those speakers, it will certainly sound different compared to the CD-quality counterpart, as they will be distorted and not sound the way they are intended to sound. If you want to listen to the 96+kHz songs without distortion, you need to get extremely expensive speakers, capable of reproducing those frequencies, only to discover, that it sounds just like the CD on your old system.
As for the bitdepth: 32bit is floating point and is only used for mixing. The end result will be integer, either 16bit or 24bit. Audio cards do not support 32bit at all. It just gets converted to 24bit first and then handled by the card for analogue conversion. Simple as that.

As for truehd, dtshd and flac: they are nothing more than losslessly compressed PCM audio. no fancy magic here. They sound the same, just take less space on your harddrive/blurays.AC3, MP3, Opus and so on are lossy. They do not store the whole original PCM sample, but loose information in order to reduce the filesize. If the bitrate is still high enough, you probably cannot hear a difference to its lossless cousin.
Decoding these audioformats with a compatible decoder/filter will result in PCM audio. Unless the decoder is buggy or not following the specifications, all decoders should result in the same PCM. the only difference between them should be performance/efficiency. Same goes for video as well, but this is more complicated (see deblocking).

If you have an av or stereo receiver, you should just output PCM (or encoded formats like TrueHD, if supported) and let the receiver handle the digital to analogue conversion. ATI HD Audio Device is probably the HDMI output of your laptop and that is always digital, not analog.

As for your vinyl collection: I also own a record player (Pioneer PL-550) and vinyls, though I still wouldn't digitize them at 96kHz. Just take a look at the specifications of the needle you are using. It's frequency range should be at around Human hearing, so just 20Hz to 22kHz. Extremely expensive ones might go up to 30kHz, but yeah, nothing beyond that. If you record at 96kHz, you are just wasting storage space... 48kHz should be plenty here as well. I recommend resampling them to 48kHz if you are running low on storage!

Personally, I set my soundcard to 24bit 48kHz for line out, line in and microphone. It can handle 96kHz as well, by my soundsystem and ears certainly cannot xD

P.S. Not sure where the article looses credibility, as I did not read anything contradictory. Please point it out Big Grin
Though, I do recommend you do some blind listening tests online to check how good your ears are:
http://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_frequency.php check your hearing frequency. I can handle distinguish up to 18-19kHz, depending on the time of day (it tends to be best in the morning!)
http://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_level.php? check how well you distinguish loudness. 1db is my limit apparently.
Use headphones!
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HOW TO - Configure Kodi DSPlayer with LAV Filters, XySubFilter & madVR7
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