MSI Cubi mini-desktops (Broadwell) now available $150 and up
#16
I thought broadwell models i3 and above offered better 4k support whole haswell i3 and above was more limited? Or is that incorrect?
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#17
Broadwell Core i-series has better HEVC support (it has 10 bit not just 8 bit) than Haswell Core i-series (both offer a hybrid of CPU/GPU acceleration for HEVC/H265). However that isn't the same as 4K support.

Neither the Haswell nor Broadwell NUCs have HDMI 2.0 outputs - so there is no 2160/50p or 60p output over HDMI on either model.
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#18
I take most newer tvs have HDMI 2.0 support?
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#19
(2015-04-07, 07:19)agender Wrote: I take most newer tvs have HDMI 2.0 support?

All late 2014 and later UHD sets would be expected to have it - though many only support 4:2:0 UHD at 50 and 60Hz.

Without HDMI 2.0 you are limited to 2160/30p or lower frame rates over HDMI, and have to use Displayport to get >30Hz UHD refresh rates. (And Displayport is far from universal on UHD TVs)
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#20
HDMI 2.0 is just half the equation since you also need HDCP 2.2 for copyrighted materials going forward.
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#21
(2015-04-07, 14:49)Topken Wrote: HDMI 2.0 is just half the equation since you also need HDCP 2.2 for copyrighted materials going forward.

Are there any mainstream UHD sets on sale without HDCP 2.2 on their HDMI 2.0 inputs? PCs will require HDCP 2.2 for UHD streaming of Netflix, Amazon etc. I guess - though may not for broadcast TV.

One major reason for HDMI 2.0 is to allow 2160p output from Kodi at 23.976Hz-60.00Hz so that you can keep with 2160p output resolution irrespective of whether you are playing 480/59.94i, 576/50i, 720/50p, 720/59.94p, 1080/50i, 1080/23.97p or 2160/23.976p etc. content....
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#22
(2015-04-07, 15:42)noggin Wrote: One major reason for HDMI 2.0 is to allow 2160p output from Kodi at 23.976Hz-60.00Hz so that you can keep with 2160p output resolution irrespective of whether you are playing 480/59.94i, 576/50i, 720/50p, 720/59.94p, 1080/50i, 1080/23.97p or 2160/23.976p etc. content....

This.
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#23
(2015-04-07, 15:42)noggin Wrote:
(2015-04-07, 14:49)Topken Wrote: HDMI 2.0 is just half the equation since you also need HDCP 2.2 for copyrighted materials going forward.

Are there any mainstream UHD sets on sale without HDCP 2.2 on their HDMI 2.0 inputs? PCs will require HDCP 2.2 for UHD streaming of Netflix, Amazon etc. I guess - though may not for broadcast TV.

One major reason for HDMI 2.0 is to allow 2160p output from Kodi at 23.976Hz-60.00Hz so that you can keep with 2160p output resolution irrespective of whether you are playing 480/59.94i, 576/50i, 720/50p, 720/59.94p, 1080/50i, 1080/23.97p or 2160/23.976p etc. content....

Since we are in a transitonal period right now I would not be surprised if there were HDMI 2.0 devices out without HDCP 2.2. AVRS come to mind right now. I would have to look since its been a while but last I knew UHDTVs were still coming with only HDMI 1.4 but that may have changed recently since as I said its been a while since I looked at them.
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#24
(2015-04-08, 00:53)Topken Wrote:
(2015-04-07, 15:42)noggin Wrote:
(2015-04-07, 14:49)Topken Wrote: HDMI 2.0 is just half the equation since you also need HDCP 2.2 for copyrighted materials going forward.

Are there any mainstream UHD sets on sale without HDCP 2.2 on their HDMI 2.0 inputs? PCs will require HDCP 2.2 for UHD streaming of Netflix, Amazon etc. I guess - though may not for broadcast TV.

One major reason for HDMI 2.0 is to allow 2160p output from Kodi at 23.976Hz-60.00Hz so that you can keep with 2160p output resolution irrespective of whether you are playing 480/59.94i, 576/50i, 720/50p, 720/59.94p, 1080/50i, 1080/23.97p or 2160/23.976p etc. content....

Since we are in a transitonal period right now I would not be surprised if there were HDMI 2.0 devices out without HDCP 2.2. AVRS come to mind right now. I would have to look since its been a while but last I knew UHDTVs were still coming with only HDMI 1.4 but that may have changed recently since as I said its been a while since I looked at them.

First gen UHDTVs were around with HDMI 1.4 inputs (mainly because HDMI 2.0 hadn't been ratified) though some of them mitigated that by having 2160/60p compatible Displayport inputs.

Sony (and a few others) got 4:2:0 2160/60p added to the HDMI 2.0 spec, which allows 2160/60p to be carried over HDMI 1.4 bandwith links (which is how some Sony sets got HDMI 2.0 functionality added by firmware).

Similarly nVidia were able to add 2160/60p support to their HDMI 1.4 video cards using a similar trick. Not brilliant for monitor use but probably not a bad compromise for video - as most consumer content is likely to be 4:2:0 subsampled anyway.
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#25
(2015-04-08, 01:26)noggin Wrote:
(2015-04-08, 00:53)Topken Wrote:
(2015-04-07, 15:42)noggin Wrote: Are there any mainstream UHD sets on sale without HDCP 2.2 on their HDMI 2.0 inputs? PCs will require HDCP 2.2 for UHD streaming of Netflix, Amazon etc. I guess - though may not for broadcast TV.

One major reason for HDMI 2.0 is to allow 2160p output from Kodi at 23.976Hz-60.00Hz so that you can keep with 2160p output resolution irrespective of whether you are playing 480/59.94i, 576/50i, 720/50p, 720/59.94p, 1080/50i, 1080/23.97p or 2160/23.976p etc. content....

Since we are in a transitonal period right now I would not be surprised if there were HDMI 2.0 devices out without HDCP 2.2. AVRS come to mind right now. I would have to look since its been a while but last I knew UHDTVs were still coming with only HDMI 1.4 but that may have changed recently since as I said its been a while since I looked at them.

First gen UHDTVs were around with HDMI 1.4 inputs (mainly because HDMI 2.0 hadn't been ratified) though some of them mitigated that by having 2160/60p compatible Displayport inputs.

Sony (and a few others) got 4:2:0 2160/60p added to the HDMI 2.0 spec, which allows 2160/60p to be carried over HDMI 1.4 bandwith links (which is how some Sony sets got HDMI 2.0 functionality added by firmware).

Similarly nVidia were able to add 2160/60p support to their HDMI 1.4 video cards using a similar trick. Not brilliant for monitor use but probably not a bad compromise for video - as most consumer content is likely to be 4:2:0 subsampled anyway.

Yeah that was my understanding and these first gen devices won't be supporting HDCP 2.2 for copy protected content. Wish is where my issue lays. I am thinking long term here and this just reminds me of the first HDMI based devices and all these handshake issues we still have with certain products. I was also asking if the current crop of UHDTV have proper HDMI 2.0 ports or are they still using HDMI 1.4?
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#26
(2015-04-08, 03:28)Topken Wrote: Yeah that was my understanding and these first gen devices won't be supporting HDCP 2.2 for copy protected content. Wish is where my issue lays. I am thinking long term here and this just reminds me of the first HDMI based devices and all these handshake issues we still have with certain products. I was also asking if the current crop of UHDTV have proper HDMI 2.0 ports or are they still using HDMI 1.4?

Seems to be that high end sets support 4:2:2/4:4:4 2160/50p and 60p HDMI 2.0 inputs, whilst lower end sets only support the 4:2:0 variant at 2160/50p and60p. The 4:2:0 spec is HDMI 2.0 - but as I mentioned, designed to work with HDMI 1.4 bandwidth connections, though isn't part of the HDMI 1.4 spec. Some sets only have one HDMI 2.0 enabled input ISTR.

Manufacturers of low-end sets can thus claim 4:2:0 - and deliver full 50/60Hz motion at 2160p - but without having to do a full HDMI 2.0 implementation. For video replay 4:2:0 is likely to be fine, as 4:2:0 subsampling is likely to continue to be used for consumer media (as it is with SD and HD content currently). However if you want to watch your own media, or use the set as a monitor or for gaming, then 4:2:0 may be an issue (albeit a small one I suspect)

I think HDCP 2.2 is pretty much standard for HDMI 2.0 inputs on UHD sets now (even 4:2:0 implementations) - though would always check. PC implementations of HDCP 2.2 could well, as you suggest, be tricky though, just as original HDCP could be.

(I tried rolling my own 2160/50p 4:2:0 nVidia-friendly OpenElec build with the latest Linux drivers and a GT720 card and got 2160/50p display output, however the performance was dreadful, even with an i7-2600K at 4GHz - so I think there are some issues to resolve. Could be the GT720 isn't up to it? Though that would be a bit odd?)
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#27
Looks like the white Celeron will be in stock within the next few days, with the other white models soon to follow. While I've got more devices than I need, if this had a M.2 slot instead of mSATA I'd be very tempted again to get yet another toy. Anyone thinking of getting one?

Actually, the white Pentium is already in stock at Amazon.
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#28
Damn, I just couldn't resist it at $106.66. Undecided
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#29
(2015-05-06, 05:37)DocG Wrote: Damn, I just couldn't resist it at $106.66. Undecided

ditto
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#30
I don't understand why this box doesn't have Cir
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