[bibi]

Hi koying,

Would it be possible to provide a build of Isengard (when its released) without the bump in NDK to allow people with android old hardware to enjoy the deinterlacer feature?

[Memphiz]

ohh yeah and an powerpc build for my old imac g3 would be nice too while you are at it...

[bibi]

I use Jelly Bean hardware, 3 years old, so i dont really understand you note.
Is it the fact you decided to drop old apple tv which makes you angry ...
Unless the new goal of kodi is to force people to change their hardware every 2/3 years.

Anyway, i can consider its my mistake to have believed in kodi in Android, or Android with Kodi, will think about going on a Pi2. Business...

[Martijn]

I use Jelly Bean hardware, 3 years old, so i dont really understand you note.
Is it the fact you decided to drop old apple tv which makes you angry ...
Unless the new goal of kodi is to force people to change their hardware every 2/3 years.

Anyway, i can consider its my mistake to have believed in kodi in Android, or Android with Kodi, will think about going on a Pi2. Business...

We secretly get paid by companies to drop old hardware.
Go back to the dark ages and keep using that hardware.

If you don't agree, go complain to the Android development team at Google.

[da-anda]

We dropped support of older Android versions for a reason. Requesting a build of the latest Kodi version but with re-added support for an older OS (so removing features and bugfixes we gained by the NDK bump and depend on it) seems a bit silly, don't you think? Also it's not as easy as you might think and only waste precious time of our one and only Android dev.

I suggest that you install a newer Android version on your device. Even my old HTC DesireS is running 4.4 thanks to CyanogenMod - so you should also be able to get your HW a newer Android version.

[weak]

@Memphiz @Martijn:
Instead of sarcastic comments you could have just said "Sorry, but we can't support hardware with NDK < 10e because it would be too much effort, causing too much fragmentation in code, etc. Please consider upgrading your hardware, there are plenty of cheap options."

Sometimes I really don't understand the attitude. He asked politely if it's possible, just tell him it isn't. No need to get rude.

[Martijn]

@Memphiz @Martijn:
Instead of sarcastic comments you could have just said "Sorry, but we can't support hardware with NDK < 10e because it would be too much effort, causing too much fragmentation in code, etc. Please consider upgrading your hardware, there are plenty of cheap options."

Sometimes I really don't understand the attitude. He asked politely if it's possible, just tell him it isn't. No need to get rude.

his attitude was that we are a bunch of assholes who force people to buy new hardware. He got the answer in the same style as he asked.

he could have asked "why don't you support those old versions? Is there a technical reason?"

[wsnipex]

@Memphiz @Martijn:
Instead of sarcastic comments you could have just said "Sorry, but we can't support hardware with NDK < 10e because it would be too much effort, causing too much fragmentation in code, etc. Please consider upgrading your hardware, there are plenty of cheap options."

Sometimes I really don't understand the attitude. He asked politely if it's possible, just tell him it isn't. No need to get rude.

agreed, but please also see that devs get those requests all over the place. You answer politely 2-3 times, but after a while you can really get annoyed by repeating yourself over and over.

[bibi]

I wrote a nice sarcastic answer but for whatever reason, it didnt get in.
To sum it up, "calm down boys".
Anyway, i just install latest smpc and it works like a charm.
Martijn, you should read my first post and the answer i get before to comment on my attitude... and also your own answers.

++

[Memphiz]

I am sick of the fact that users think we need to fix their old hardware or fix the vendors of such hardware which stop providing updates to the operating system and what not.

We go forward now like the operating system vendors want us devs to do it. This means. If Microsoft drops support for an operating system we will most likely do that too. If Apple stops support for an OSX version we will most likely do the same. If Android SDK/NDK gets features which make our live easier - we will bump. Same for iOS.

Accept it.

[theblur20]

Hi koying,

Would it be possible to provide a build of Isengard (when its released) without the bump in NDK to allow people with android old hardware to enjoy the deinterlacer feature?

ohh yeah and an powerpc build for my old imac g3 would be nice too while you are at it...

I use Jelly Bean hardware, 3 years old, so i dont really understand you note.
Is it the fact you decided to drop old apple tv which makes you angry ...
Unless the new goal of kodi is to force people to change their hardware every 2/3 years.

Anyway, i can consider its my mistake to have believed in kodi in Android, or Android with Kodi, will think about going on a Pi2. Business...

I use Jelly Bean hardware, 3 years old, so i dont really understand you note.
Is it the fact you decided to drop old apple tv which makes you angry ...
Unless the new goal of kodi is to force people to change their hardware every 2/3 years.

Anyway, i can consider its my mistake to have believed in kodi in Android, or Android with Kodi, will think about going on a Pi2. Business...

We secretly get paid by companies to drop old hardware.
Go back to the dark ages and keep using that hardware.

If you don't agree, go complain to the Android development team at Google.

@Memphiz @Martijn:
Instead of sarcastic comments you could have just said "Sorry, but we can't support hardware with NDK < 10e because it would be too much effort, causing too much fragmentation in code, etc. Please consider upgrading your hardware, there are plenty of cheap options."

Sometimes I really don't understand the attitude. He asked politely if it's possible, just tell him it isn't. No need to get rude.

his attitude was that we are a bunch of assholes who force people to buy new hardware. He got the answer in the same style as he asked.

he could have asked "why don't you support those old versions? Is there a technical reason?"

@Memphiz @Martijn:
Instead of sarcastic comments you could have just said "Sorry, but we can't support hardware with NDK < 10e because it would be too much effort, causing too much fragmentation in code, etc. Please consider upgrading your hardware, there are plenty of cheap options."

Sometimes I really don't understand the attitude. He asked politely if it's possible, just tell him it isn't. No need to get rude.

agreed, but please also see that devs get those requests all over the place. You answer politely 2-3 times, but after a while you can really get annoyed by repeating yourself over and over.

I am sick of the fact that users think we need to fix their old hardware or fix the vendors of such hardware which stop providing updates to the operating system and what not.

We go forward now like the operating system vendors want us devs to do it. This means. If Microsoft drops support for an operating system we will most likely do that too. If Apple stops support for an OSX version we will most likely do the same. If Android SDK/NDK gets features which make our live easier - we will bump. Same for iOS.

Accept it.

Wow, I'm pretty shocked by the dialogue that's going on here at team Kodi. I was checking on the ServerWMC and De-interlacing concerns to see how they were coming along when I read this thread. (ServerWMC not loading in AFTV with version 15 Beta and we all know about the De-interlacing issue AFTV). Instead, I read the above responses. I have been a member of SageTV for a very long time and I never remember dialogue ever being quite like this. I wrote a nice article on Kodi for a website recently that a lot of enthusiasts interested in HTPC software read frequently. I joined as a member a couple of weeks ago and was looking forward to contributing financially.

I can understand the frustration from everyone's end, really I can and i'm one of them. I understand that it's not team Kodi's fault that Android doesn't de-interlace or some of the other hardware or platform issues. However with the platform out there for the AFTV, this can really catapult things and earn you money from donations and allow you to grow if those are things team Kodi would like.

Team Kodi, you are right, you are the developers and this is your project and you don't have to be nice to anybody. From my point of view, the first question was nice and was responded to sarcastically from a member of team Kodi and things started to snowball from there with team Kodi seemingly piling on. Again, that's my perspective.

As I am starting to write my next HTPC article which was going to include Kodi, I have a lot of questions and concerns as to how team Kodi treats their members, financial contributors and other Kodi related relationships. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I do think for anyone wanting donations from anyone, a golden rule is that you should be nice to them.

I really was looking forward and rooting for Kodi's development, but now I have no idea what to think. To think that I sold my SageTV extenders for 3 AFTV's with the hope of being part of something about ready to blow up in a good way. I'll test the next beta release and hope the ServerWMC loading issue is solved with AFTV. What I personally will do regarding my HTPC needs remains to be seen. Team Kodi is a talented group but I am hoping that the way they address their members improves.

To answer someone's question, with version 15 Beta, BOB inverted worked nicely for me on a 1080i previously recorded live Hockey game. Was it perfect, I thought it was great and a huge improvement. I would be very happy with it if I could load SeverWMC on the AFTV. For my needs the de-interlacing issue would be fixed.

This conversation was screen printed and my reply was copied for my protection in case it gets edited. Apparently, someone's response was edited earlier in this thread for one reason or another. If it was language, then that's understandable, but if it's an appropriate professional response, that's a huge concern.

Again, maybe this is my misunderstanding. I'm looking forward to your reply and possibly the fixes that were mentioned. I can understand coding concerns however, if possible why not make a Kodi 14.3 version that has the BOB fix in it to hold people over while the new features are being developed for version 15? Can it just be dropped in there, or is it a major event? I am not being sarcastic, I really don't know, would that cause a huge problem with the coding?

Thank you for your time.

[Martijn]

Fact is that we don't like that member "demanding" things to be added. This is a hobby project that we do in our free time. We don't live of the donations so if you donate, thank you. If you don't, fine as well. However if you donate don't come here demanding things. Most if not all of us have a regular job and the donations are just for doing the meetings, legal, website or hardware on occasions.

In the last two years the spree of android and r-pi devices has brought on users who think they can demand anything because they bought the cheapest thing out there. Just because they bought from some random chinese manufacturer or whatever with useless firmware and DEMAND that we fix it. Sorry to say but we just get sick of that behaviour. So yes once in a while we start tp respond like that just because some one starts demanding whatever he thinks we should do. We appreciate opinions and suggestion but don't make demands or else....
I can assure you that most users are not as he is and the dialog between devs/mods and users is quite good. That user was just narrow minded and just an insult to the rest of the users.

Fact is that Android as an OS is just unfinished or broken. Certainly the earliest versions. Now with 5.0 they are improving it but still long way to go. You simply must accept that as a user. Don't start bashing us or you will get the same result. As you have seen. Ask in a friendly manner and you will get a according response back.

We only edit users posts if they violate the forum rules. So bad language or piracy references.

As i don't need or use interlacing there's nothing i can say about that. There won't be a 14.3 so if anything you should use 15.0 nightlies. If you want to follow development just go to http://kodi.tv

[theblur20]

Fact is that we don't like that member "demanding" things to be added. This is a hobby project that we do in our free time. We don't live of the donations so if you donate, thank you. If you don't, fine as well. However if you donate don't come here demanding things. Most if not all of us have a regular job and the donations are just for doing the meetings, legal, website or hardware on occasions.

In the last two years the spree of android and r-pi devices has brought on users who think they can demand anything because they bought the cheapest thing out there. Just because they bought from some random chinese manufacturer or whatever with useless firmware and DEMAND that we fix it. Sorry to say but we just get sick of that behaviour. So yes once in a while we start tp respond like that just because some one starts demanding whatever he thinks we should do. We appreciate opinions and suggestion but don't make demands or else....
I can assure you that most users are not as he is and the dialog between devs/mods and users is quite good. That user was just narrow minded and just an insult to the rest of the users.

Fact is that Android as an OS is just unfinished or broken. Certainly the earliest versions. Now with 5.0 they are improving it but still long way to go. You simply must accept that as a user. Don't start bashing us or you will get the same result. As you have seen. Ask in a friendly manner and you will get a according response back.

We only edit users posts if they violate the forum rules. So bad language or piracy references.

As i don't need or use interlacing there's nothing i can say about that. There won't be a 14.3 so if anything you should use 15.0 nightlies. If you want to follow development just go to http://kodi.tv

I appreciate the clarification as a hobby project and not needing donations. I have a full time job myself and I'm a musician on the side, as well as write articles, blogs and reviews. Many times our band will receive requests to do a particular song that we don't, won't or would prefer not to do and we politely tell them that we can't do that for one reason or another. That's dealing with someone face to face and many times that same someone has had a bit too much alcohol or other things. Now, I understand how hard it can be to deal with the public, but this thread upset me this morning.

Where I took issue with the thread was the questoin below by Bibi. I'm failing to see how they deserved the sarcastic response after it. To me, it was the next response that was the triggering event and yes Bibi's response after that was a bit over the top and then so was yours.

"bibi Wrote:
Hi koying,

Would it be possible to provide a build of Isengard (when its released) without the bump in NDK to allow people with android old hardware to enjoy the deinterlacer feature?"

Is that demanding? I am failing to see how it is and deserved the below response.
"Memphiz Wrote:
ohh yeah and an powerpc build for my old imac g3 would be nice too while you are at it..."

Maybe there is a history there, and you're right no one should demand something because they donated just as someone does not have the right to demand I do a particular song if they tip me first, request the song and say I have to do their request because they tipped me. Certainly I would try to accommodate them, but I understand that you can't make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. I would gladly give them back their tip, but would be friendly and professional about it.

The funny thing is, all I did was go to Kodi's site to see if there was a fix to my problem when I ran into this thread. I wrote a nice article regarding Kodi and how it works with AFTV with plans for follow up articles. I had told my friends about the HTPC alternative and entertainment needs and it was really something to check out. I got my whole family addicted to Kodi. Part of my human nature and military background is that I am a man of my word, so you can only imagine how pissed I was after seeing the dialogue that I did especially after recommending Kodi to people I know.

I will let them know to proceed with caution when asking any question because I can't see how the original question asked above was demanding in any way.

Thank you for your time today. Your feedback helped enlighten me and I hope mine did the same for the Kodi team.

Best Regards to the Kodi team and I mean that sincerely.

[tredman]

Fact is that we don't like that member "demanding" things to be added. This is a hobby project that we do in our free time. We don't live of the donations so if you donate, thank you. If you don't, fine as well. However if you donate don't come here demanding things. Most if not all of us have a regular job and the donations are just for doing the meetings, legal, website or hardware on occasions.

In the last two years the spree of android and r-pi devices has brought on users who think they can demand anything because they bought the cheapest thing out there. Just because they bought from some random chinese manufacturer or whatever with useless firmware and DEMAND that we fix it. Sorry to say but we just get sick of that behaviour. So yes once in a while we start tp respond like that just because some one starts demanding whatever he thinks we should do. We appreciate opinions and suggestion but don't make demands or else....
I can assure you that most users are not as he is and the dialog between devs/mods and users is quite good. That user was just narrow minded and just an insult to the rest of the users.

Fact is that Android as an OS is just unfinished or broken. Certainly the earliest versions. Now with 5.0 they are improving it but still long way to go. You simply must accept that as a user. Don't start bashing us or you will get the same result. As you have seen. Ask in a friendly manner and you will get a according response back.

We only edit users posts if they violate the forum rules. So bad language or piracy references.

As i don't need or use interlacing there's nothing i can say about that. There won't be a 14.3 so if anything you should use 15.0 nightlies. If you want to follow development just go to http://kodi.tv

I appreciate the clarification as a hobby project and not needing donations. I have a full time job myself and I'm a musician on the side, as well as write articles, blogs and reviews. Many times our band will receive requests to do a particular song that we don't, won't or would prefer not to do and we politely tell them that we can't do that for one reason or another. That's dealing with someone face to face and many times that same someone has had a bit too much alcohol or other things. Now, I understand how hard it can be to deal with the public, but this thread upset me this morning.

Where I took issue with the thread was the questoin below by Bibi. I'm failing to see how they deserved the sarcastic response after it. To me, it was the next response that was the triggering event and yes Bibi's response after that was a bit over the top and then so was yours.

"bibi Wrote:
Hi koying,

Would it be possible to provide a build of Isengard (when its released) without the bump in NDK to allow people with android old hardware to enjoy the deinterlacer feature?"

Is that demanding? I am failing to see how it is and deserved the below response.
"Memphiz Wrote:
ohh yeah and an powerpc build for my old imac g3 would be nice too while you are at it..."

Maybe there is a history there, and you're right no one should demand something because they donated just as someone does not have the right to demand I do a particular song if they tip me first, request the song and say I have to do their request because they tipped me. Certainly I would try to accommodate them, but I understand that you can't make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. I would gladly give them back their tip, but would be friendly and professional about it.

The funny thing is, all I did was go to Kodi's site to see if there was a fix to my problem when I ran into this thread. I wrote a nice article regarding Kodi and how it works with AFTV with plans for follow up articles. I had told my friends about the HTPC alternative and entertainment needs and it was really something to check out. I got my whole family addicted to Kodi. Part of my human nature and military background is that I am a man of my word, so you can only imagine how pissed I was after seeing the dialogue that I did especially after recommending Kodi to people I know.

I will let them know to proceed with caution when asking any question because I can't see how the original question asked above was demanding in any way.

Thank you for your time today. Your feedback helped enlighten me and I hope mine did the same for the Kodi team.

Best Regards to the Kodi team and I mean that sincerely.

I'm only a user and an occasional visitor to these forums, if over many years.

One thing I have noticed, as mentioned above, is the many many posts from android users who have issues - often relating to 'fully loaded' boxes. It does get very tedious, to the point where many people don't even go to the android section - and the team members only visit to delete threads.

There isn't any excuse for rudeness, but it can be understood I think, especially in this development (not support) section of the forum.

[bibi]

I am narrow minded and an insult to other user...
Well i hope to meet you one Day IRL to discuss with you, specially on how you get an opinion on People you know only from 2 posts on a forum...
As you say in your profil, No one is smart enough to understand his own stupidity

End of discussion for me, you can insult me again if you want.

++