2017-12-01, 21:25
Funny you should ask. I've seen the suggestions to use 422 instead of RGB 444 elsewhere and responded. I will here too. The 'fix' was suggested because the wonderful dedicated players simply were not too wonderful I assume. They introduced terrible banding evidently and the only way to correct the problem was to use a lousy color space, 422.
You say RGB Full is working for you fine at 8 bit. You say you read elsewhere that 422 would be better for you. Why, you don't know? Either do I. You say when you tried it, everything went south except (I assume) HDR windowed. Using any driver after 385.69 has this problem as has been noted here previously. This includes yesterdays new driver release which I tested. This would explain your funky colors and why HDR (I assume) looks sort of black and white. Besides that, HDR color and advanced setting switch still does not turn off automatically even though it engages fine. On top of that, it only works windowed and not FSE (Full Screen Exclusive) which is mandatory for 3D without creating custom rules for it and windowed mode within madVR.
It appears you are focusing on 8, 10, and 12 or higher bits. Your 1st focus should be on Output levels. I'll try to explain simply and excuse the analogy and the math which is in the millions. For the sake of simplicity, I'm omitting Gamut, Curves, etc. which is another subject and excuse me if you already understand all this. I'm not astute, can be corrected and welcome it but here is my take:
422 is only 16-235 aka limited. Limited as in - if you imagine your output levels as a ruler, the 1st couple inches and the last couple inches get cut off. This is your new range of colors and black and whites you get to work with. RGB Full is 0-255 and you get the whole 12 inches of your ruler to work with. Within that ruler are increments. How many increments are added within that 12 inch ruler are called bit depths. An 8 bit depth would increment say, a half inch. So, you would get 24 increments of visible shades of color and black and white. A 10 bit depth would increment say, a quarter inch. That would increase your visible shades to 48. 12 bit would further increase to 96 shades and so on...
You set Output levels in everything either automatically or manually; Kodi, your display, your Gpu, your AVR, etc. Software and hardware clash with these levels at times. So, we select a level that is acceptable for everything - RGB, which is what most sources eventually get converted to and the least amount of conversions from something else, the better. This leads to limited vs full. We want to start with a 12" ruler (0-255) so our workspace is entire and we capture as much as we can. Then we want to break down that ruler of increments with the most rainbow spectrum we can - bit depth.
Bit depth is dependant on Hz. Bit depth is easily selected (automatically) at Hz levels such as 23, 24, 23.976 covering most movie titles FPS. We select the highest bit depth our display is capable of RECEIVING no matter what our GPU's can OUTPUT. Selecting the highest bit depth a GPU can OUTPUT will automatically dither down to what our display can actually accept. So, what your stats show as what you are ouputting to your display does not necessaryly mean the same as what your display is rendering. So we select the highest bit depth possible (dependant on Hz) and let the process happen.
Windows, a software, prefers a Hz of 60. Anything less leads to problems most noticibly, mouse lag. The same lag is introduced to software within Windows like Kodi GUI. We know we need 60Hz set in the GPU but how do we get high bit depths at that Hz since the HDMI standard does not allow it? We don't. We suffice with 8 bit for the Windows desktop mode. We are not so concerned about how windows appears and 8 bit looks very good especially on a calibrated display. Our goal is not so much 'Desktop' mode. Our goal is 'Video' mode for playback of our rips. Our rips are usually 23.976 Hz. This is the frame rate to match and how the title was originaly filmed and produced and how your display is intended to automatically switch its Hz to match it. That is within the HDMI standard and opens the world of bit depth wide open. So, we match frame rate and select the highest bit depth our GPU's are capable - 12 bit even though most displays and sources are limited to 10 bit and let it dither down. In this thread I've already explained how to set RGB FULL @60Hz using 8 bit for Desktop mode - automatically switching to 12 bit output when Video mode engages. So, RGB FULL at 8, 10, and 12 bit or higher is possible as long as our Hz is matched at 24 or thereabouts. Using a higher frame rate Hz than the source will lead to big time motion problems and render TERRIBLE! Match the frame rate and let tools in your display or tools in software automatically add frames (interpolate) for you. It adds clarity and smooth motion. This is why we purchased 240Hz model displays as opposed to common antiquated 60Hz or 120Hz ones. Those stuck with that old technology are the 1st to pipe up how much they hate the label they've given this wonderful upgrade to our viewing pleasure - The Soap Opera Effect. To each his own. They hate it and want everyone else to also since their antiquated crap can't compete and emphasize how much they prefer the grainy look and machine gun motion look of panning scenes. Trying to achieve the same thing by increasing your Hz in your GPU isn't anywhere near the same thing and is the leading cause of introducing more severe problems.
If you desire to run at 60Hz with a bit depth of 12 or 24 or 36 and want to accomplish it by switching to YBCR 4:2:2, have at it but imo, you're going backwards.
Fwiw, there is a new LAV filter update released today.
You say RGB Full is working for you fine at 8 bit. You say you read elsewhere that 422 would be better for you. Why, you don't know? Either do I. You say when you tried it, everything went south except (I assume) HDR windowed. Using any driver after 385.69 has this problem as has been noted here previously. This includes yesterdays new driver release which I tested. This would explain your funky colors and why HDR (I assume) looks sort of black and white. Besides that, HDR color and advanced setting switch still does not turn off automatically even though it engages fine. On top of that, it only works windowed and not FSE (Full Screen Exclusive) which is mandatory for 3D without creating custom rules for it and windowed mode within madVR.
It appears you are focusing on 8, 10, and 12 or higher bits. Your 1st focus should be on Output levels. I'll try to explain simply and excuse the analogy and the math which is in the millions. For the sake of simplicity, I'm omitting Gamut, Curves, etc. which is another subject and excuse me if you already understand all this. I'm not astute, can be corrected and welcome it but here is my take:
422 is only 16-235 aka limited. Limited as in - if you imagine your output levels as a ruler, the 1st couple inches and the last couple inches get cut off. This is your new range of colors and black and whites you get to work with. RGB Full is 0-255 and you get the whole 12 inches of your ruler to work with. Within that ruler are increments. How many increments are added within that 12 inch ruler are called bit depths. An 8 bit depth would increment say, a half inch. So, you would get 24 increments of visible shades of color and black and white. A 10 bit depth would increment say, a quarter inch. That would increase your visible shades to 48. 12 bit would further increase to 96 shades and so on...
You set Output levels in everything either automatically or manually; Kodi, your display, your Gpu, your AVR, etc. Software and hardware clash with these levels at times. So, we select a level that is acceptable for everything - RGB, which is what most sources eventually get converted to and the least amount of conversions from something else, the better. This leads to limited vs full. We want to start with a 12" ruler (0-255) so our workspace is entire and we capture as much as we can. Then we want to break down that ruler of increments with the most rainbow spectrum we can - bit depth.
Bit depth is dependant on Hz. Bit depth is easily selected (automatically) at Hz levels such as 23, 24, 23.976 covering most movie titles FPS. We select the highest bit depth our display is capable of RECEIVING no matter what our GPU's can OUTPUT. Selecting the highest bit depth a GPU can OUTPUT will automatically dither down to what our display can actually accept. So, what your stats show as what you are ouputting to your display does not necessaryly mean the same as what your display is rendering. So we select the highest bit depth possible (dependant on Hz) and let the process happen.
Windows, a software, prefers a Hz of 60. Anything less leads to problems most noticibly, mouse lag. The same lag is introduced to software within Windows like Kodi GUI. We know we need 60Hz set in the GPU but how do we get high bit depths at that Hz since the HDMI standard does not allow it? We don't. We suffice with 8 bit for the Windows desktop mode. We are not so concerned about how windows appears and 8 bit looks very good especially on a calibrated display. Our goal is not so much 'Desktop' mode. Our goal is 'Video' mode for playback of our rips. Our rips are usually 23.976 Hz. This is the frame rate to match and how the title was originaly filmed and produced and how your display is intended to automatically switch its Hz to match it. That is within the HDMI standard and opens the world of bit depth wide open. So, we match frame rate and select the highest bit depth our GPU's are capable - 12 bit even though most displays and sources are limited to 10 bit and let it dither down. In this thread I've already explained how to set RGB FULL @60Hz using 8 bit for Desktop mode - automatically switching to 12 bit output when Video mode engages. So, RGB FULL at 8, 10, and 12 bit or higher is possible as long as our Hz is matched at 24 or thereabouts. Using a higher frame rate Hz than the source will lead to big time motion problems and render TERRIBLE! Match the frame rate and let tools in your display or tools in software automatically add frames (interpolate) for you. It adds clarity and smooth motion. This is why we purchased 240Hz model displays as opposed to common antiquated 60Hz or 120Hz ones. Those stuck with that old technology are the 1st to pipe up how much they hate the label they've given this wonderful upgrade to our viewing pleasure - The Soap Opera Effect. To each his own. They hate it and want everyone else to also since their antiquated crap can't compete and emphasize how much they prefer the grainy look and machine gun motion look of panning scenes. Trying to achieve the same thing by increasing your Hz in your GPU isn't anywhere near the same thing and is the leading cause of introducing more severe problems.
If you desire to run at 60Hz with a bit depth of 12 or 24 or 36 and want to accomplish it by switching to YBCR 4:2:2, have at it but imo, you're going backwards.
Fwiw, there is a new LAV filter update released today.
