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Win HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
(2020-12-17, 19:01)brazen1 Wrote:
(2020-12-17, 16:27)nsnhd Wrote:
(2020-12-16, 18:58)brazen1 Wrote: Fwiw, I get the same behavior.

The log shows the original player quits and hands off playback to the external player selected.  Then, it simply quits.  Here's a few snipets:

CVideoPlayer::CloseFile()

CExternalPlayer::OpenFile

CExternalPlayer:Tonguerocess: Start

CApplication::OnPlayBackStarted

CExternalPlayer::ExecuteAppW32

CExternalPlayer:Tonguerocess: Stop

CExternalPlayer:Tonguerocess: Showing Kodi window

CApplication::OnPlayBackStopped: CApplication::OnPlayBackStopped

Thread ExternalPlayer 8616 terminating

I'd put up a full log but I highly doubt anyone is going to look into this.  Also, I'm using Matrix 2020-Dec-15 nightly which is still beta2.
Thanks for confirming it, maybe they canceled this key in 18, 19 versions, so we have to live with the VideoPlayer.
Do you know more about the Video Scaling Methods ? In comparison to madVR, the VideoPlayer only shows Bilinear, Spline3/Optimised and Lanczos3/Optimised to choose from. I know Lanczos is a good one, but what's Lanczos Optimised ? Is it better ? Also do these algos apply to luma, chroma or both ?

You don't have to "live with the VideoPlayer"?  I've set up rules in the PCF.xml to launch an external player as default for most videos.  The ones that aren't included in a rule launch VideoPlayer as default... such as trailers, mp4's, etc.  If I want to manually intervene from what ever the default player is, I can select the 'play using' menu.  Pressing Y to switch players only works if VideoPlayer is the active player.  That function doesn't work when an external player is active.  You have to select the external player from the 'play using' menu to begin with or quit the external player and then bring up the 'play using' menu.  The Y key hasn't been canceled.  It still brings up the menu.  It just doesn't function completely for some reason beyond my abilities.  This is a Kodi core bug afaik.

Lanczos Optimised is what I have set for all videos using the VideoPlayer.  Only using an 82" screen, I can't tell much difference between them tbh.  The higher algorithm you select, the more resources will be dedicated to it.  My CPU and GPU have plenty of head room.  https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=319983:

Video scaling method
Changes the size of a video frame in order to match the resolution of the display device. All methods here are non-adaptive so they may produce different amount of aliasing, blurring and edge halos. There are no best methods it’s up to personal taste what method you should use. The methods are:
Auto - If supported uses Lanczos3 Optimized when video resolution is lower than 720p (1280x720) and video FPS is lower than 30, otherwise it uses Bilinear.
Bilinear - fairly simple and fast method (video resized with this method may appear slightly smoothed/blurred but with no edge halos also called ringing artifacts).
Bicubic - more sophisticated method than Bilinear (more precise and slightly sharper video than Bilinear, but can introduce some ringing artifacts).
Lanczos2 - 4-tap filter that uses a 2-lobe Lanczos windowed sinc function (sharper than Bicubic with less aliasing).
Spline36 Optimized - 4-tap + 3-lobe filter, more precise than Lanczos2, which tries to produce the sharpest image with slightly less ringing artifacts then Lanczos3 Optimized (differences only noticeable with high resizing factors or when downsizing).
Lanczos3 Optimized - 4-tap filter that uses a 3-lobe Lanczos windowed sinc function (comparable results to Spline36 Optimized, with less aliasing and more sharpness, but more ringing artifacts).
Spline36, Lanczos31 - 6-tap filters that are more precise variants of above "Optimized" versions (they are sharper but might produce more ringing artifacts in some situations).
Characteristics of different methods:
Sharpness - Bilinear < Bicubic < Lanczos2 < Spline36 Optim < Lanczos3 Optim < Spline36 < Lanczos3
Aliasing artifacts - Lanczos3 < Spline36 < Lanczos3 Optim < Spline36 Optim < Lanczos2 < Bicubic < Bilinear
Ringing artifacts - Bilinear (no ringing) - Bicubic < Lanczos2 < Spline36 Optim < Lanczos3 Optim < Spline36 < Lanczos3
1 On GL builds these methods are slower than the optimized versions; this is the reason why they are not available by default but can be activated by advanced users in advancedsettings.xml
2 <dxvaallowhqscaling>true</dxvaallowhqscaling> for <video> (may) need to be added to an advancedsettings.xml in order to use all high quality scalers available - Hardware dependent.

I also set "Use HQ scalers when scaling above 0%" and "Use display HDR capabilities" setting.  Fwiw, I use madVr for other processing than just scaling which is part of the reason I don't use VideoPlayer for everything.
Thanks for detailed explanations.
As said, for local files I'm using external players (mpc-hc/be, PotPlayer) with madVR directly. But they don't work with some streaming videos, so Kodi VideoPlayer is the only chance. I'm not sure why.
Regarding the upscaling algos, it seems that Lanczos3 or Lanczos3 Optimized are the best. I'll see which one is better on my 32" 4K monitor with 80 cm viewing distance. Do you know if these algos affect both Luma and Chroma like madVR ?
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(2015-07-24, 11:55)afedchin Wrote: @brazen1,
Nice guide! It would be a perfectly if you can add into your guide how users can use Hardware Stereoscopic 3D in DirectX 11 version of Kodi

I totally Agree with @afedchin, This is really a Perfect Guide.

Tech-Act
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@brazen1 
HI brazen, sorry for my post maybe little OT. I'm building a new HTPC but I'd like once quite small so, for your opinion is anough a motherboard like Asrock J3355M with gpu integrated  to play 4k 10bit HDR ? Or a CPU AMD ryzen always with GPU integrated....

Tks
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Hi @Alcarimon 

I can't offer you an opinion on specific hardware having never used it.  I would think if your new build is mainstream enough, there would be honest facts shared in other forums.  Specs are one thing but so is each user's unique environment and preferences.

Personally, being unique, I have no interest in small form factors and place no precedence on them for myself.  The footprint of my HTPC (same size as an AVR and also lays horizontal) is probably much smaller than most small form factors once you add in the rest of the components that make a small form factor PC usable.  I house (11) local 3.5" HDD's able to also serve to clients if I wish but I don't because we watch in one main area only.  I don't need to take my collection on the go with me or watch anything while cooking or taking a shower.  This means we have zero need for a NAS.  This also means we have zero need for external HDD's taking up room to feed a small form factor PC.  Those two things alone will leave larger footprints than an all-in-one local desktop completely negating the benefit of a small form factor PC imo.  I understand some folks want an inconspicuous unobtrusive box next to their TV while all the other components to make it work are someplace else hiding.  Why not put it in the same place and have nothing next to your TV?  Maybe it's to make room for the sound bar that eliminated the AVR?  I dunno?   

Integrated GPU's to save space is not of any interest to me either.  I prefer upgrading or replacing individual components as demand necessitates rather than ditching entire integrated hardware in order to gain one aspect of what I actually want to replace.  Afaik, integrated components like GPU chips on a motherboard or stacked on top of a CPU die offer nothing the individual chips already do except maybe convenience in the short term.  This is more of a technique for laptops and other devices where replacement could be often and budgets are of no consideration.

Again, being unique, I'm simply not an AMD person.  I have used AMD early on when speeds were in the MB's.  Since the GB era, I've always respected the Intel offerings for computing and for driving video I prefer nVidia.  Experts like madshi and followers seem to agree fwiw.  I just think these manufactures are leaders in the industry and will be for some time to come.  Again, this is just my personal preference and doesn't make anything else right or wrong.  Who knows what the TB era will have us gravitating toward? 

That said, I don't think there's anything being made that isn't going to handle 4k 10bit HDR one way or another.  Some better than others evidently.  I really think it boils down to if a user is rendering on a mid/high end panel (simply passing through) and in zero need of tone mapping and other niche remedies OR highly in need of pre/post processing band-aids and corrections when projecting images.  The latter needs everything they can get their hands on to somewhat enjoy their magnified video (larger).  This is when cutting edge everything is sought in the quest for better presentation that mid/high end panels already deliver.  I am happy some attention for development is embraced for PJ users and their passions.  I fear for them though as panels continue to offer larger and larger affordable screen sizes indicating a possible rabbit hole in their future.  

I know my opinion is somewhat OT for your specific questions but hope it helps you and your new HTPC.
HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10/20H2 MPC-BE\HC PDVD19 DVDFab3,5&6 KODI 19 PotPlayer 960-4GB/RGB 4:4:4/Desktop=60Hz/Video=Matched Refresh rates 8/12bit/Samsung 82" Q90R
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(2021-01-08, 19:55)brazen1 Wrote: Hi @Alcarimon 

I can't offer you an opinion on specific hardware having never used it.  I would think if your new build is mainstream enough, there would be honest facts shared in other forums.  Specs are one thing but so is each user's unique environment and preferences.

Personally, being unique, I have no interest in small form factors and place no precedence on them for myself.  The footprint of my HTPC (same size as an AVR and also lays horizontal) is probably much smaller than most small form factors once you add in the rest of the components that make a small form factor PC usable.  I house (11) local 3.5" HDD's able to also serve to clients if I wish but I don't because we watch in one main area only.  I don't need to take my collection on the go with me or watch anything while cooking or taking a shower.  This means we have zero need for a NAS.  This also means we have zero need for external HDD's taking up room to feed a small form factor PC.  Those two things alone will leave larger footprints than an all-in-one local desktop completely negating the benefit of a small form factor PC imo.  I understand some folks want an inconspicuous unobtrusive box next to their TV while all the other components to make it work are someplace else hiding.  Why not put it in the same place and have nothing next to your TV?  Maybe it's to make room for the sound bar that eliminated the AVR?  I dunno?   

Integrated GPU's to save space is not of any interest to me either.  I prefer upgrading or replacing individual components as demand necessitates rather than ditching entire integrated hardware in order to gain one aspect of what I actually want to replace.  Afaik, integrated components like GPU chips on a motherboard or stacked on top of a CPU die offer nothing the individual chips already do except maybe convenience in the short term.  This is more of a technique for laptops and other devices where replacement could be often and budgets are of no consideration.

Again, being unique, I'm simply not an AMD person.  I have used AMD early on when speeds were in the MB's.  Since the GB era, I've always respected the Intel offerings for computing and for driving video I prefer nVidia.  Experts like madshi and followers seem to agree fwiw.  I just think these manufactures are leaders in the industry and will be for some time to come.  Again, this is just my personal preference and doesn't make anything else right or wrong.  Who knows what the TB era will have us gravitating toward? 

That said, I don't think there's anything being made that isn't going to handle 4k 10bit HDR one way or another.  Some better than others evidently.  I really think it boils down to if a user is rendering on a mid/high end panel (simply passing through) and in zero need of tone mapping and other niche remedies OR highly in need of pre/post processing band-aids and corrections when projecting images.  The latter needs everything they can get their hands on to somewhat enjoy their magnified video (larger).  This is when cutting edge everything is sought in the quest for better presentation that mid/high end panels already deliver.  I am happy some attention for development is embraced for PJ users and their passions.  I fear for them though as panels continue to offer larger and larger affordable screen sizes indicating a possible rabbit hole in their future.  

I know my opinion is somewhat OT for your specific questions but hope it helps you and your new HTPC.

Wow!! I wasn't expecting a so long reply! It's important your opinion for me because your guide about 4k HDR is a "bible" and it's the unique guide that made my current Htcp able to play well HDR on my LG panel!

Anyway, I found your words correct, in fact I've a PC with a case very big for now, like AVR (bigger than an AVR in reality): I've a Silverstone Case with 5 HDD with 15 TB, and 1050ti gpu. But I'm changing house and I'll go in a new one so during all these changes I'd like to renew my little home theatre not only for hardware but for "design" also.. so Fanless chassis are really cool and smaller but I was scared to build a PC not enough performant for 4k HDR.
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I was using madVR via mpc-be or hc for the past years. With Kodi 19 I'm using the videoplayer (for now) for HDR/4K. I don't really notice a difference. Do those with a more astute eye think that madVR has better visual quality?
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I've been using Kodi 19 for a while now exclusively for UHD playback and I don't notice any difference because I'm passing through same as I did with madVR/MPC.  I passthrough because UHD does not need to be processed on a good panel.  There's nothing to improve.  PJ's would still require a bunch of processing though so external players with madVR is probably still good practice. 

I installed JAVA to take advantage of full menu playback.  Other functions are quicker and easier to access also.  Compared to other players that handle full 1:1 rips (iso) including menus, Kodi stands out.  For instance, DVDFab Media Players handle menus and all except they don't auto control frame rate matching.  They only reflect what the GPU is set at.  So if your desktop is properly set to 60Hz, playback of 23.976 is going to 3:2 pulldown instead of matching the rate at 24p. You can workaround this by setting the GPU manually to 24Hz and changing it back again when finished but who wants to do that essentially ruining a perfectly automated system. 

Evidently JRiver handles full menus also but having never used it I can't really comment on the pros and cons.  I have seen the interface.  It's nothing like Kodi and once you've been spoiled... 

I do have one complaint about using Kodi VideoPlayer for UHD.  Some titles work perfectly, some require patience and even a bit of persuasion, and others don't work at all.  I've noticed if I watch a portion of a title and resume it later, I'm offered to resume playback or start from the beginning.  Unfortunately, Kodi locks up playback and no amount of clicking does anything except 'stop' which ejects the iso mount.  Subsequent tries are futile.  So I just navigate to my 'play using' menu and call up another player.  It's still good to have choices.  Did I mention Kodi doesn't cost a nickle and is under constant development?
HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10/20H2 MPC-BE\HC PDVD19 DVDFab3,5&6 KODI 19 PotPlayer 960-4GB/RGB 4:4:4/Desktop=60Hz/Video=Matched Refresh rates 8/12bit/Samsung 82" Q90R
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(2021-01-10, 02:59)brazen1 Wrote: I've been using Kodi 19 for a while now exclusively for UHD playback and I don't notice any difference because I'm passing through same as I did with madVR/MPC.  I passthrough because UHD does not need to be processed on a good panel.  There's nothing to improve.  PJ's would still require a bunch of processing though so external players with madVR is probably still good practice. 

I installed JAVA to take advantage of full menu playback.  Other functions are quicker and easier to access also.  Compared to other players that handle full 1:1 rips (iso) including menus, Kodi stands out.  For instance, DVDFab Media Players handle menus and all except they don't auto control frame rate matching.  They only reflect what the GPU is set at.  So if your desktop is properly set to 60Hz, playback of 23.976 is going to 3:2 pulldown instead of matching the rate at 24p. You can workaround this by setting the GPU manually to 24Hz and changing it back again when finished but who wants to do that essentially ruining a perfectly automated system. 

Evidently JRiver handles full menus also but having never used it I can't really comment on the pros and cons.  I have seen the interface.  It's nothing like Kodi and once you've been spoiled... 

I do have one complaint about using Kodi VideoPlayer for UHD.  Some titles work perfectly, some require patience and even a bit of persuasion, and others don't work at all.  I've noticed if I watch a portion of a title and resume it later, I'm offered to resume playback or start from the beginning.  Unfortunately, Kodi locks up playback and no amount of clicking does anything except 'stop' which ejects the iso mount.  Subsequent tries are futile.  So I just navigate to my 'play using' menu and call up another player.  It's still good to have choices.  Did I mention Kodi doesn't cost a nickle and is under constant development?

Thanks - I didn't think I was missing anything. When using Menus, I have no playback functions at all with the player. I can't even pause. That's a serious disadvantage. For movies, I usually go straight in with 'main title playback.' Mostly I have some TV shows ripped as ISO instead of .mkv because of a lot of special features .... for instance getting the log lady intros that were done for Showtime for Twin Peaks -the .iso rip blends them all together nicely without being seperate files to select in the right order (the right intro for the right episode for instance - and the log lady intro would be filed under SPECIALS to boot, more moving around in the interface outside of the show.) I just empty the bladder before I start watching an episode of Twin Peaks. I had this problem with 18.7, 18.8 and 18.9 also.
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Hmmm?  I have Kodi set to show Blu-ray menus and it does exactly that.  With titles that do actually play correctly (and many, many do) I have complete player functions; pause, ff, rw, skip chapters, access player menu for subs, audios, info, etc., etc.  I can also interact with all the disc menus.  All functions from my Harmony remote and/or mouse/keyboard.

While I'm thinking about it, another big advantage using Kodi for iso playback is playlists.  Many titles have multiple episodes on them.  When using a player like MPC that doesn't handle menus, in order to select a specific episode you have to manually do a little math in your head and then navigate the MPC player settings menu to playlists and manually select the episode you're looking for.  Usually they are listed as 800, 801, and 802 for episodes 1, 2, and 3.  But it gets tricky because the next iso for that same season that contains episodes 4, 5, and 6 are also playlists 800, 801, and 802.  It can get very confusing pretty quickly.

Using menus in Kodi greatly simplifies all of this.  Depending on the iso Kodi has mounted for a particular season, you are presented with episode numbers on the disc itself instead of having to manually decipher them to playlist numbers.  You simply select the episode you want and it starts playing.  Couple this with the actual Kodi library which has separated shows down to seasons down to individual episodes... and playback is a breeze compared to an MPC player without so much figuring out and navigation.  The Kodi VideoPlayer access to full menus simplifies everything not to mention is more eye appealing than MPC menu text.  I really like it. 

I just wish all titles worked as good as others because some don't navigate the menus at all and just sit there like a stick in the mud.  Testing these same titles using DVDFab, for instance, navigate the menus and perform flawlessly.  Hopefully Kodi improves development.  I'll just keep installing Matrix v.19 nightlies and maybe one day we'll get lucky.
HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10/20H2 MPC-BE\HC PDVD19 DVDFab3,5&6 KODI 19 PotPlayer 960-4GB/RGB 4:4:4/Desktop=60Hz/Video=Matched Refresh rates 8/12bit/Samsung 82" Q90R
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(2021-01-10, 19:27)brazen1 Wrote: Hmmm?  I have Kodi set to show Blu-ray menus and it does exactly that.  With titles that do actually play correctly (and many, many do) I have complete player functions; pause, ff, rw, skip chapters, access player menu for subs, audios, info, etc., etc.  I can also interact with all the disc menus.  All functions from my Harmony remote and/or mouse/keyboard.

While I'm thinking about it, another big advantage using Kodi for iso playback is playlists.  Many titles have multiple episodes on them.  When using a player like MPC that doesn't handle menus, in order to select a specific episode you have to manually do a little math in your head and then navigate the MPC player settings menu to playlists and manually select the episode you're looking for.  Usually they are listed as 800, 801, and 802 for episodes 1, 2, and 3.  But it gets tricky because the next iso for that same season that contains episodes 4, 5, and 6 are also playlists 800, 801, and 802.  It can get very confusing pretty quickly.

Using menus in Kodi greatly simplifies all of this.  Depending on the iso Kodi has mounted for a particular season, you are presented with episode numbers on the disc itself instead of having to manually decipher them to playlist numbers.  You simply select the episode you want and it starts playing.  Couple this with the actual Kodi library which has separated shows down to seasons down to individual episodes... and playback is a breeze compared to an MPC player without so much figuring out and navigation.  The Kodi VideoPlayer access to full menus simplifies everything not to mention is more eye appealing than MPC menu text.  I really like it. 

I just wish all titles worked as good as others because some don't navigate the menus at all and just sit there like a stick in the mud.  Testing these same titles using DVDFab, for instance, navigate the menus and perform flawlessly.  Hopefully Kodi improves development.  I'll just keep installing Matrix v.19 nightlies and maybe one day we'll get lucky.

I watched Eraserhead Blu-ray today and everything worked perfectly. I must be unlucky in the first couple being problem children. I have no problem with menus on my problem children, just no playback controls or even the ability to pause, rewind, fast forward from remote shortcuts.
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