Win Windows 7 SMB Wiki update
#1
I am looking to update the information for SMB/Windows (wiki) (Windows 7 only) and require some common issues (and good points) that people have come across when trying to use SMB for file sharing within Kodi.

Here is what I'm initially looking at: http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=232615

I will be providing a simple tutorial through various hyperlinks and/or applicable youtube videos, but also interested in particular hardware downfalls too. If you have an issue, please provide the evidence to state your claim.

If you have information for other Windows installs, feel free to post here, but make it very clear which version you are referring to and I will try to make a consolidated package for potentially someone else to update the wiki with.

Original SMB info: http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=63123
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#2
http://kodi.wiki/view/SMB/Windows.

Should be the comprehensive posting for all versions. are you looking to update the win7 section only?

I am not sure why http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=63123 hasn't been deleted in favor of the wiki. It's old and has too many pages of mixed info, and the relevant stuff is actually located in the wiki locations.

A side note, I personally have had issues with homegroup on when trying to interface with multiple platforms, as have many people. What supporting evidence do you have that it works better on? (quote from your side thread) do you have performance data across all configurations, or just yours?

Looking from not your own experience, but is there multiple, supported and documented instances where this is the case?

To suggest that homegroup is not a problem is not the correct path.. There are many configuration possibilities (along with hardware and OS) out there which can all require some small tweak to get running.

That SMB wiki page was my last resort for my configuration which solved all of my issues. But that was just me.

Not looking to start a flame fest... And I do applaud the initiative.mand I am not saying that an update (cleanup) isn't feasible. But the idea behind the wiki would be that it is the comprehensive and definitive information spot. Therefore any changes should be researched and verified completely from the widest sample of information possible before implementing.
I really have no idea what I am talking about. Proceed with caution. I confuse easily. And drink. A lot.
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#3
Yah someone knows this page exists haha.

Some good points. Yes, I am currently only updating the Windows 7 information (will probably do a Windows 10 spread in a few weeks when I upgrade), but as stated, if anyone can provide relevant, confirmed info for other Windows installs, I'm happy to try and get something together.

That link you provided was actually used for the wiki, almost all the info that Nate originally supplied was used.

You have mentioned issues, but haven't mentioned the devices that were being shared from/to, the particular issue you were facing etc. This is another reason I'm looking to update the wiki, so a comprehensive list of known issues (hopefully with fixes) is provided. You may be having problems through no fault of Windows or Kodi, but something you have configured that no one else has done.

My own personal experience was about as vanilla as it got. I did a complete fresh install of Windows (onto it's own SSD), setup homegroup (during the installtion process) and then installed a stable version of Kodi and have not experienced a single issue.

Changes are going to be researched and verified, otherwise it won't be informative or accurate. I am hoping members will be able to verify the new (realistically it's just updated) information I'm putting forward.
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#4
I've been working with SAMBA since the NT 3.51 years. So have a fairly solid set of tricks to make things work cleanly. With variations to handle secure users.

Funny timing of your post as I was about to start helping someone sort out their SAMBA shares in the forum (though they seem to have disappeared again...)


I'll try and find time to read that whole thread you are linking, and then throw a few extra notes your way if needed.
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#5
(2015-07-23, 00:43)levi.baker88 Wrote: Yah someone knows this page exists haha.

Some good points. Yes, I am currently only updating the Windows 7 information (will probably do a Windows 10 spread in a few weeks when I upgrade), but as stated, if anyone can provide relevant, confirmed info for other Windows installs, I'm happy to try and get something together.

That link you provided was actually used for the wiki, almost all the info that Nate originally supplied was used.

You have mentioned issues, but haven't mentioned the devices that were being shared from/to, the particular issue you were facing etc. This is another reason I'm looking to update the wiki, so a comprehensive list of known issues (hopefully with fixes) is provided. You may be having problems through no fault of Windows or Kodi, but something you have configured that no one else has done.

My own personal experience was about as vanilla as it got. I did a complete fresh install of Windows (onto it's own SSD), setup homegroup (during the installtion process) and then installed a stable version of Kodi and have not experienced a single issue.

Changes are going to be researched and verified, otherwise it won't be informative or accurate. I am hoping members will be able to verify the new (realistically it's just updated) information I'm putting forward.

My setup is a mix of Win 7 (various flavors), 8, Mac and Android. Some are vanilla installations (i.e front end only), and other are full use ones.

I use SMB shares to connect where necessary as UPNP is not flexible enough (or it wasn't when I started this adventure a few years ago) for what I do within the Kodi enclave. The simple story is that I would have trouble connecting (assume all procedures on sharing were correct) between machines, or the connection would be unstable. Once I dumped the homegroups, the veil was lifted and every device was able to connect without issue.

The Homegroup wasn't cancelled based on hit and miss troubleshooting either. I am one of those that get stuck on the simplest and close to original configurations for standardization. (only because I am lazy and don't want to have to remember every tweak for each machine) I narrowed the problem down systematically, and a majority of the research I did online pointed to Homegroup being turned off. Bottom line - it simply worked with it off, and didn't on.

But also note - once I started using sync and Mysql that negated the SMB shares for TV Shows and Movies - but I still have a couple shares for regular videos (GoPro, home vid, etc) that need the SMB.

I was the one that added the reg tweak to the wiki - as that just popped up out of the blue one day for my Android (now OpenElC) on a Matricom Midnight MX2, because it wouldn't stay connected. I found the reference in one of the posts - tested it and then added to the wiki. However since that tweak - I have some buffering issues to PLEX (for mobile devices) - and I haven't really had the time to test that fully. But that could simply be PLEX itself.
I really have no idea what I am talking about. Proceed with caution. I confuse easily. And drink. A lot.
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#6
I have Homegroups happily running alongside SAMBA shares. Sometimes the same folders shared to both. It can be made to all work happily together without messing too much deep under the bonnet. The key is knowing how to deal with separate Users and Groups in the MS World.

This house is a mix of 7, 8.1, 10. Some XP pop-up at times. Just removed a Server 2003. Some Unbuntu boxes. And dozens of different combinations of customer computers of all shapes and sizes. This means a need for me to avoid "everyone" shares and work with usernames and passwords. It also makes handling SAMBA sooooooo much easier that way. XP introduce the concept that users *must* have a password to use network shares and I think this confuses a lot of people's Window Samba troubleshooting as most people like to setup a desktop PC without a login password which then has the knock-on effect on getting networking to work.
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#7
@BatterPudding - Any info you can verify will be good. Also a very interesting point about users not wanting to use a logon password, as Kodi requires that username and password to access shares on the receiving end.

@Redwingsfansfc - Good job on the regedit, it'll be info like that for less 'big name' hardware that will come in handy.
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#8
As a basic summary, my main trick is to create a user called KODIUSER and give them a password of KODIPASS (or something more sensible).

Next I remove all NT User Groups from this user. Making sure KODIUSER is not in the USERS or ADMINISTRATORS group means avoiding getting a logon icon for them. If we leave them in the USERS group it upsets most people's way of using their PCs. When a Windows PC is setup with one user and no password the OS assumes you want to auto-logon. Add a second user and auto-logon stops (unless you do a different tweak)

If on a PRO or ULTIMATE version of Windows the next steps are where some Black Magic comes in. It involves NT User Rights which are weird to the uninitiated. Basically we go to the folder of files we are about to share and add KODIUSER and give them READ rights to all the files.

Then we create a shared folder and add in KODIUSER with full Read rights.


I have many more notes and details to add to the above. But that is the basic way it works. Clean and reliable. Of course, if the user is happy to have a password at logon then they don't actually need to setup a separate KODIUSER. Or, even better, if the computer running KODI has a username and password that it uses locally, then we setup the user on the Media PC with those credentials.


I'm building a virgin Win7 Dell up later so may get time to take some screenshots of the path through the NT User Rights dialog pages. I know I have the above details written down a few times from the umpteen thousand times I've described the method on other forums over the decades.
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#9
I can see where you are coming from, basically you've setup a new user within Windows to run Kodi and done the video guide that is attached in the wiki (add a user and then the shared folder).

Had a reasonable read through the originally SMB thread, it was from very early XMBC days and most of which was members trying to get it to work on their XBOX.
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#10
@BatterPudding - if you are building a new machine, can you try SMB with and without Windows Live Sign-In Assistant installed. Since Kodi no longer supports XBOX I think this can be removed from the wiki.
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#11
There is certainly no need for Windows Live Sign-In Ass-is-tant. I have none of that junk on any of my PCs here.

Underneath all of Windows is pure raw old fashioned SMB. This is what I reach back down to. So much so that the old NT 3.51 dialogs for user rights and settings have barely changed over the decades.

I have no idea about X-Box stuff so I am glad we can ignore that. I have never read a single KODI guide wiki or forum page on KODI's SMB needs as it "just worked" with my normal SMB setup in my house. KODI doesn't need anything special.

I can see the biggest headache for many is just plain understanding the logic behind how Microsoft organise Users and SMB on a Windows PC. (Especially tricky for those coming form Apple, *nix, X-Box and other OS worlds). My job has me working across all platforms so I'm used to this level of troubleshooting and co-operation.


Note I am mainly describing the SMB needs on the computer where your media lives. This is the messiest to access as you need to get rights correct for the KODI PC to cleanly access the machine where the media resides. Setting up the user on the KODI PC itself is trivial. The main PC I run KODI from is a bog standard Win 8.1 installation where I did *nothing* special to it at all.

Once I have the new Dell built for my customer I'll do a couple of tests on it. Firstly I'll setup some media on here to share to my KODI PC. Then I'll install KODI on the PC and check I can access my media server okay. I'll try and get time to take some screenshots as I go along (depends on time available).
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#12
(2015-07-24, 13:40)levi.baker88 Wrote: @BatterPudding - if you are building a new machine, can you try SMB with and without Windows Live Sign-In Assistant installed. Since Kodi no longer supports XBOX I think this can be removed from the wiki.
I have gone and checked my current setup to 100% confirm this for you. The majority of my media is on a Win 7 PC accessed via half a dozen shares. The main KODI PC attached to my TV being a Win 8.1 box. Neither of these have any Windows Live Sign-In Ass-is-tant or any Live stuff in any form. None of the Windows Essentials extras.

In fact I could just take a bare Windows PC fresh from installing Windows for the first time. NO extra software, add-ons required in any way to get the two PCs talking happily via the network. In my house it is an important part of any setup of a new PC as I have many of the drivers, utils, etc stashed on network drives that I access immediately a PC is setup fresh. Also note that *nix and Apple machines also access these same SMB shares when needed.


SMB is so ancient it generally "just works" when you follow the correct dialogs. Trouble is the black magic understanding needed to make sense of those dialogs often leads people down the paths of fiddling with "simple networking" wizards which then cause the problems. There are also a few issues with this in the Windows Home (not Pro\Ultimate) OS world which I will have to write a slightly different HOWTO for.
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#13
(2015-07-24, 14:05)BatterPudding Wrote: SMB is so ancient it generally "just works" when you follow the correct dialogs. Trouble is the black magic understanding needed to make sense of those dialogs often leads people down the paths of fiddling with "simple networking" wizards which then cause the problems.

I think this is where people generally get lead astray. If you can test with windows live installed that would be awesome. I too generally leave that stuff out when installing windows, useless bloat.
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#14
(2015-07-24, 14:18)levi.baker88 Wrote:
(2015-07-24, 14:05)BatterPudding Wrote: SMB is so ancient it generally "just works" when you follow the correct dialogs. Trouble is the black magic understanding needed to make sense of those dialogs often leads people down the paths of fiddling with "simple networking" wizards which then cause the problems.

I think this is where people generally get lead astray. If you can test with windows live installed that would be awesome. I too generally leave that stuff out when installing windows, useless bloat.
Is your request a typo? Why would I test with Windows Live installed when we are trying to remove it from the equation? Big Grin

I have to head out to see a client now, back later. I'll get that PC built as bare bones as possible over the weekend and then write up a few "howtos" from it. I know I already have the bones of those HOWTO stashed somewhere...
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#15
The wiki stats it should be removed for SMB to work (granted this was with XBOX), but if SMB still works with Windows Live Sign-In, then the comment can be removed from the wiki and forgotten about. Otherwise I will need to make a special point under troubleshooting.

Edit: Done some more small additions to the wiki.
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