[gurabli]

Hi,

I recently run into a debate regarding the best hardware for running Kodi. It must be a DIY build, so no NUCs, sticks, Chromeboxes, etc, just a plain regular mobo, ram, psu, case, etc like build.

First real debate is: Intel vs AMD? We are talking about APUs here, only low power consumption, silent, itx systems are ever to be considered for a normal need htpc, so do not list anything with a dedicated VGA.

I know that on front of Intel excellent work is in progress, and Intel also released great hardware like Braswell.

Don't really know anything about AMD, except that it was never a recommended build for any Linux based box. Things have changed for sure, but I don't really see any point of getting AMD while this great work is done on Intel SoC. Correct me if I'm wrong, but AMD might have more powerful GPU in their APU then Intel has, but lacks a lot of support from linux developers, and Intel's GPU is doing the job perfectly.

I keep recommending Intel as the best (and only reasonable) choice for htpc (knowing that Braswell development is still WIP, but perhaps it will hit stable after Kodi 16).

I think both platforms can handle the usual 720p-1080p playback with no problem at all. The question is, when it comes to deinterlacing of 1080i50&60 material, how does the better job in terms of quality?
And then comes scaling: Intel now does Lanczos3 Optimized which is excellent, not sure about AMD and its quality.
4k30&60 h264 playback: Braswell does 4K30 and if I'm correct, 4K60 too. Don't know anything about AMD.
h265 HEVC: Braswell is capable of h265@LeVeL 5, but we are still waiting for ffmpeg to implement this, the hware is there. Not sure about AMD again. New AMD APUs are capable of h265 HEVC if I'm not mistaken, but only under Win (maybe because Linux is missing WDDM 2.0 that is required for AMD to do this on Win)?

In terms of sound, Intel Braswell support DTS-HD and TrueHD passtrough, so excellent. Don't know about AMD.

I hope we can clear this up a little, thanks!

[noggin]

AIUI there are major limitations on the AMD Linux drivers when it comes to Kodi. The AMD GPUs may be a lot more powerful than the Intel GPUs, so would be a lot better for 3D gaming - but that's not a consideration for Kodi. You don't need stellar GPU performance, you need decent hardware acceleration for AVC/H264, VC-1, MPEG2 (and now HEVC/H265), enough GPU to do decent Lanczos 3 scaling, and support for deinterlacing.

The Intel GPUs now have this on even relatively low-end devices via a change in the way GPU works on Intel, coupled with good co-operation from the Intel driver devs means that lower end stuff can now do higher quality video through more efficient processing.

AIUI AMD don't provide the same level of driver support and co-operation with devs. fritsch posted in a previous thread that the AMD Linux stuff was limited to sub-4K decode (whether H264 or H265) so 4K playback is a no-no with AMDs under Linux at the moment.

[oWarchild]

4k30&60 h264 playback: Braswell does 4K30 and if I'm correct, 4K60 too. Don't know anything about AMD.

So far all Braswell boxes and motherboards are coming out with HDMI 1.4 and DisplayPort 1.1 support, in other words, limited to 4K@30Hz. For 4K@60Hz HDMI 2.0 or DisplayPort 1.2 is required, more about this on FAQ: what hardware to get for 4K.

h265 HEVC: Braswell is capable of h265@LeVeL 5, but we are still waiting for ffmpeg to implement this, the hware is there.

I'll just add that Braswell's HEVC support is limited to 8-bit (as most hardware currently available) and this can be quite limiting in the future as 4K TV broadcasts, Netflix 4K and 4K Blu-ray will all support 10-bit (Main10 profile).

[noggin]

Yes - the 4K60 stuff is decode performance, but the output of this material had to be downscaled to 1080p60 to get it out of the box...

[gurabli]

I'll just add that Braswell's HEVC support is limited to 8-bit (as most hardware currently available) and this can be quite limiting in the future as 4K TV broadcasts, Netflix 4K and 4K Blu-ray will all support 10-bit (Main10 profile).

One question is when will the scene move from h264 to h265 releases and abandon h264. I don't think it is going to happen in the near future, but who knows.
Change in broadcasting, like live TV, will happen even later, as all the boxes, tv tuners, everything would require to be replaced, and I'm not sure providers would like to take this cost. On the other side, TV manufacturers will for sure, one more reason to be forced to replace your perfectly fine TV for a new one and spending $$$, just to get 4K (worth nothing, read it everywhere, at least not on home screen size).

As I understand, h265 HEVC 8-bit is supported by Braswell, we are waiting for ffmpeg implementation here (should happen, I hope). Isn't the 8-bit vs 10-bit situation here the same as with h264 10-bit, which is also not supported by hw, and I read all the time it is not worth at all, rather spending the extra bitrate on 8-bit h264.

[jjd-uk]

Personally I'd never let AMD hardware anywhere near any of my systems, they have a long history of crap drivers although it's better these days on the Linux side with their OSS driver team working with our devs.

[oWarchild]

One question is when will the scene move from h264 to h265 releases and abandon h264. I don't think it is going to happen in the near future, but who knows.

Currently it's computationally expensive to encode HEVC because there is a lack of hardware support so it will probably take some time for that to happen. Intel will release Skylake later this year which is supposed to support hardware HEVC encoding and that should lead to more HEVC material showing up. Still, both codecs will surely co-exist for a long time.

Isn't the 8-bit vs 10-bit situation here the same as with h264 10-bit, which is also not supported by hw, and I read all the time it is not worth at all, rather spending the extra bitrate on 8-bit h264.

I'm afraid not, in H264 10-bit was in the Hi10 profile and it was for professional use, in HEVC 10-bit is part of the Main10 profile and is considered consumer grade. It's meant to be used in TV, Blu Ray and Netflix. You can read more about this on the section "4K HEVC Main10 (10-bit)" of FAQ: what hardware to get for 4K.

[naloj]

I feel like this has been talked to death in 20 other threads.

You can get a GTX 960 and probably be fine for a very long time.

You can build a whole Braswell system for the price of a GTX 960 and probably be fine for a couple years.

I don't trust AMD to follow through. Things look different this time, but I have a long memory and last time they made a big open source driver push, they laid off half the team a year or two later. But they were having money problems and Linux is still 1% of the market so that's kind of understandable.

Plus Kodi will eventually have support for games/emulators which may steer the conversation towards more middle range hardware for some people.

[noggin]

Change in broadcasting, like live TV, will happen even later, as all the boxes, tv tuners, everything would require to be replaced, and I'm not sure providers would like to take this cost. On the other side, TV manufacturers will for sure, one more reason to be forced to replace your perfectly fine TV for a new one and spending $$$, just to get 4K (worth nothing, read it everywhere, at least not on home screen size).

Just started to happen here in the UK. BT Sport have launched their UHD IPTV solution with a new YouView UHD box. This is a combined DVB-T2 + IPTV box with 2160/50p output for UHD Sport coverage that they started this month. They use multicast IP to carry DVB compliant MPEG2 transport streams with HEVC 2160/50p and AVC 1080/50i streams for TV stuff. Sky are expected to follow suit quite soon too.

[Robotica]

Change in broadcasting, like live TV, will happen even later, as all the boxes, tv tuners, everything would require to be replaced, and I'm not sure providers would like to take this cost. On the other side, TV manufacturers will for sure, one more reason to be forced to replace your perfectly fine TV for a new one and spending $$$, just to get 4K (worth nothing, read it everywhere, at least not on home screen size).

Just started to happen here in the UK. BT Sport have launched their UHD IPTV solution with a new YouView UHD box. This is a combined DVB-T2 + IPTV box with 2160/50p output for UHD Sport coverage that they started this month. They use multicast IP to carry DVB compliant MPEG2 transport streams with HEVC 2160/50p and AVC 1080/50i streams for TV stuff. Sky are expected to follow suit quite soon too.

Nice box, that Humax DTR-T4000. I Wonder what hardware it uses? Menu's seems fast so OpenGL performance seems good as well.