[DaveBlake]

Just a remark. I think a file view which is not showing files is really a library view. That is just a general statement not aimed at what's going on or even video.
I feel like we're really suffering from fragmentation here.
If I had anything to say, file view should only be very basic. And library should have all the sorting and meta data.

Like, why does file list for songs have a sort option that sorts by listeners. But library mode has not. It's just so random.

Just saying, but I guess we're really locked into the status quo and probably can't do a clean up anywhere.

Razze, aiming for a consistent UI and tidying up is a good thing, I agree in principle. The original sort criteria on file view was odd indeed (what are or were "Listeners" anyway), and clearly needed improving. I know that you have been doing good work in this area. Likewise reducing the number of different windows is better for skinners, I can see why PR8011 happened. But, you knew there was one, when we "clean up" we need to make sure we don't loose functionality.

How basic should file view be?

I think there is a need for something more than a list of filenames, but less than the full library facility. In software generally, especially Windows, users are familiar with "file view" lists showing more information than just the filename. File lists show a variety of information depending on the nature of the file. For example with images you see a thumbnail, with photos you can also see the "date taken" and camera data etc. Tag data is an implicit part of the music file, showing that data is as basic as showing the file size or creation date.

The library processes the tag data, and can collect additional data too. It is much more powerful, which is great, but sometimes more than the situation requires e.g. plug in a stick to play some music, I don't want to build a library.

[Fist]

Just a remark. I think a file view which is not showing files is really a library view. That is just a general statement not aimed at what's going on or even video.
I feel like we're really suffering from fragmentation here.
If I had anything to say, file view should only be very basic. And library should have all the sorting and meta data.

Like, why does file list for songs have a sort option that sorts by listeners. But library mode has not. It's just so random.

Just saying, but I guess we're really locked into the status quo and probably can't do a clean up anywhere.

Razze, aiming for a consistent UI and tidying up is a good thing, I agree in principle.

At the risk of overbeating the same drum, while it might seem tidy to have consistency between music and video because both are capable of embedding tags and filing into a library, the reality is the media are consumed very differently. Most of us don't see or care about video or image tags, or at least don't have the time to massage them.

Yes, there are some who derive some sense of pride by crafting a relational database around a video collection, but how often do most of us really want to watch the same TV episode? Watch, delete, gone forever. Some like to use the database to decide whether to watch something.

Contrast this with music where the enjoyment matches more of a bell curve with repeated listens. Or we delete an entire album after only skipping through a few tracks. And Kodi is unlikely to be our only, or even main, music player. We usually listen to it first before committing it to a library. The tags are used for organization rather than information.

[BatterPudding]

I think there is a need for something more than a list of filenames, but less than the full library facility. In software generally, especially Windows, users are familiar with "file view" lists showing more information than just the filename. File lists show a variety of information depending on the nature of the file. For example with images you see a thumbnail, with photos you can also see the "date taken" and camera data etc. Tag data is an implicit part of the music file, showing that data is as basic as showing the file size or creation date.

As one of the silent readers of this thread... this sounds the most logical to me and a good clear definition. It is as described - a File View. On the left the exact actual filename as recorded in the OS file system. With added details of the file extracted from the TAGS of the file readable in the panel on the right.

[Razze]

A patch have broken a function too early this needs to be fixed, this have nothing to do with a new front, it's a normal way of acting, there's a unseen regression, let's fix it.

As I said it was a general statement not aimed at the breakage that is going on right now.

It just feels like file mode is too powerful and even has features that library view doesn't has.
Like that listeners thing, why should that be on file mode? It really feels like it should be on library mode and should be removed from file mode.

[DaveBlake]

It just feels like file mode is too powerful and even has features that library view doesn't has.
Like that listeners thing, why should that be on file mode? It really feels like it should be on library mode and should be removed from file mode.

As far as I can tell "listeners" is historic and simply needs to be removed period. It is not tag data, it is never stored in the library, and in my use just shows random negative integers implying it is unset.

Other than that I really don't understand your feeling. File view does not have extra features, it just displays intrinsic music file properties or hopefully will when fixed. Clearly people use it for that, and it is hard to see why that is a problem.

[Razze]

It just feels like file mode is too powerful and even has features that library view doesn't has.
Like that listeners thing, why should that be on file mode? It really feels like it should be on library mode and should be removed from file mode.

As far as I can tell "listeners" is historic and simply needs to be removed period. It is not tag data, it is never stored in the library, and in my use just shows random negative integers implying it is unset.

Other than that I really don't understand your feeling. File view does not have extra features, it just displays intrinsic music file properties or hopefully will when fixed. Clearly people use it for that, and it is hard to see why that is a problem.

It's not a problem. I just get a funny feeling when I find something like that listener thing. And I fear that there was someone pushing the file side of things when he/she should be pushing the library view instead.

[Fist]

It just feels like file mode is too powerful and even has features that library view doesn't has.
Like that listeners thing, why should that be on file mode? It really feels like it should be on library mode and should be removed from file mode.

As far as I can tell "listeners" is historic and simply needs to be removed period. It is not tag data, it is never stored in the library, and in my use just shows random negative integers implying it is unset.

Other than that I really don't understand your feeling. File view does not have extra features, it just displays intrinsic music file properties or hopefully will when fixed. Clearly people use it for that, and it is hard to see why that is a problem.

It's not a problem. I just get a funny feeling when I find something like that listener thing. And I fear that there was someone pushing the file side of things when he/she should be pushing the library view instead.

Let's all agree to kill the "listener" thing then. No-one will notice.

Track, Artist, Title & Cover Art are the essentials in File Details. You shouldn't need to display Date Modified but you will need to be able to sort by it.

Now add in Album, Genre, Year, Track length, Bit Rate, and File Type when playing, and everyone's happy.

We should display the same INFO whether playing from Library or File View. That would be consistent.

[Tolriq]

We all push toward Library mode or there would not be such discussions in Github or here

But there's a consensus that's is not ready yet and as such current file mode feature should not be removed without alternative.

So the only push here is to bring back something that if missing in Jarvis will have high negative impact as users data are always true unlike feelings

[DaveBlake]

OK had a go at a fix
PR8205 raised to restore the file view functionality. Happy for anyone to contribute, this is a new area of Kodi for me.

We all push toward Library mode or there would not be such discussions in Github or here

But there's a consensus that's is not ready yet and as such current file mode feature should not be removed without alternative.

So the only push here is to bring back something that if missing in Jarvis will have high negative impact as users data are always true unlike feelings

Yeap. I am a library enthusiast, I want to make the library better and breaking the file view in a "clean-up" was an unwanted distraction.

[narvatu]

I know is a stupid question, but, if music development is on the table, why not push for impossible?

Is impossible for kodi to have three views?: raw files view, only embbeded tags and full library.

In many post of this thread compares video & music library and make mention to video files dont include tags like audio files do. one prefers to see the file name, other the included tags

I realize that this change involves many other at database level, interface or skins, but i think this is the solution that satisfied (almost) all, at least, reading the messages in this thread

[jjd-uk]

That is already possibly as there is an on/off toggle for display of tags in file view.

[jjd-uk]

Oh and it is desired to get video tag reading in for file types that support it such as mp4.

[Fist]

We all push toward Library mode or there would not be such discussions in Github or here

But there's a consensus that's is not ready yet and as such current file mode feature should not be removed without alternative.

So the only push here is to bring back something that if missing in Jarvis will have high negative impact as users data are always true unlike feelings

Dude, you need to let go of the misconception that Library mode is superior for all use cases. It's only superior in some cases. And those cases are at the light user end.

Sure, it's handy for searching tags - if you have an attached keyboard - but it can be a real pig for browsing. Particularly if your tags aren't meticulous, especially the genre field. And frankly, whose are? Sure, if you buy it all from iTunes, and it amounts to only 50GB maybe, but you try browsing upwards of 500GB. It only takes one track in an album to have a misspelling to throw an entire album out of whack. If your end goal is to replicate iTunes, you've got the Kodi community badly wrong.

Folder organization is the way DJ's work. One crate, one category. Filed maybe by date, order in setlist, maybe artist. It's personal. That's for work, Then there's the system back home. It'll be different again. Sure, genres can do the same thing, but think about what happens when 3/4 of your collection becomes tagged "indie," and quickly, what's the difference between "electronic," "electronica," "synth pop," and "indie electronic?" Tagging genres is grueling. Don't even start on Techno.

The point is, you mustn't assume the tags are there and they're correct. In File View that doesn't matter so much because you've drilled through folders. Neither are ideal, but until MP3's arrives tagged in the musical equivalent of the Dewey Decimal System, managing large libraries is always going to require many hours of tedious folder filing.

[Tolriq]

Well I have no misconception, but information about 2 million users that use my app and contact me directly for almost everything.

You like some other have the misconception that your need is the majority need, and well sorry but numbers talks and it's not.

Look at your example : DJ's. But how many DJ's will use Kodi ? Hum 0 since Kodi is not a DJ's platform at all.

There's tools to manage very large MP3 collections to be perfectly tagged, it's the same for movies, if you download a movie named abcd.mkv and do not rename it, then no one can guess what it is. (I have report of users of Yatse (so Kodi) with 200 000 songs, so this is possible). Maybe if you only download pirated music from random sources and not taggin them you may have problems, but official goal of Kodi is not to promote piracy, so should target users that rip their music or from iTunes / Google Play / Anything legal and so have the correct meta data.

I will not try to debate with you about what library can bring over file mode since you already have made your mind. And if you read correctly all my previous posts I clearly stated that library will not fit ALL needs, but with some work can fit the very large majority, and I do fight to keep the current functions of file mode.

And to finish this is developer zone, not feature requests one so maybe you post in the wrong section Dude

[Fist]

OK had a go at a fix
PR8205 raised to restore the file view functionality. Happy for anyone to contribute, this is a new area of Kodi for me.

We all push toward Library mode or there would not be such discussions in Github or here

But there's a consensus that's is not ready yet and as such current file mode feature should not be removed without alternative.

So the only push here is to bring back something that if missing in Jarvis will have high negative impact as users data are always true unlike feelings

Yeap. I am a library enthusiast, I want to make the library better and breaking the file view in a "clean-up" was an unwanted distraction.

Hooray, some progress. My thoughts:

1. Now sorting by the basic file properties (File, name, Date, Size). I'm struggling to think of an instance Size would useful.
2. Can't sort by Track, Artist, Title. The useful fields.
3. Still displaying the literal file name and extension.
4. Not obeying the Track Naming Template in Settings/Music/File Lists

I understand this way would the literal interpretation of "File View" if by that you meant how it would be displayed if viewed from a command prompt or Windows 3.1, but I think given this is the Swiss army knife of media players we might err towards being useful to music lovers rather than simply placate some kind of programming autism.