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bkund12 · 2015-09-27, 22:21

hi.

I have tried to raise this question in an older thread, but probably this was not the right one, and the question (request) hasn't received too much attention.
Would it be possible to enable Kodi to bitstream DSD files? Is this something complex? Is it realistic to hope that in the foreseeable future this functionality will be there? KODI is a great media player and since the AudioEngine is in place it really make sense to consider a Kodi device to be the music player in a home media system. I hope, it is not just me who think's this functionality would be great to have.

bkund12 · 2015-10-03, 09:26

any view from any one on this?

ironic_monkey · 2015-10-06, 09:12

there is no standard way of bitstreaming dsd afaik. it's not in the specs, neither hdmi nor spdif. if something does it, it's operating outside the specs and it works by random chance.

**natethomas** · 2015-10-06, 09:53

Out of curiosity, what would be the benefit of bitstreaming DSD files? I'm not aware of any AVRs that can decode DSD, unless that's just one of the less talked about functions.

Soli · (This post was last modified: 2015-10-06, 10:22 by Soli.)

He's probably talking about DoP (made popular by quite a few usb dacs) , packing DSD into fake PCM data (so only valid for untouched volume and pure alsa). The newer Linux kernels also support DSD-U32-BE native which is kinda bitstreaming (all bits are used instead of only the lower 16, making possible a doubling of DSD FS rate at the same "packed" PCM rate if that makes sense), but still within the constraints of PCM frames. Since there doesn't exist a "DSD handshake protocol", all supported DACs (only a few for now) are actually hardcoded into the kernel for DSD native, whereas for DoP is only userspace. (But requires an output that support at least 24/176, the DSD data begins at -48db so you don't run any risk of destroying your speakers in case your dac doesn't supports DoP)

Actually, it's more or less like IEC958 DTS/AC3 bitstreaming, but with much more bandwidth required. DSD64 requires an IEC958 rate of 176khz, so DSD128 and up is only possible via USB. (Or any other high bandwidth audio protocol or interface)
I could talk lots more, but maybe this was a little too much info already...

Basically, I don't think this is a good idea at all for Kodi. Best to leave this for dedicated music players.

bkund12 · 2015-10-06, 18:32

(2015-10-06, 09:53)natethomas Wrote: Out of curiosity, what would be the benefit of bitstreaming DSD files? I'm not aware of any AVRs that can decode DSD, unless that's just one of the less talked about functions.

When I do listen to music, KODI is connected via USB to an Integrated Amplifier (it is a Nuprime IDA-8). it has a DAC built in able to decode DSD streams. (I have seen this working with a Popcornhour A410).
A friend has seen my setup and he would also like to use KODI for music playback with his tube amp, putting in between an USB DAC capable to decode DSD stream.
In this kind of setup it would be great to have the DSD bitstreaming. (Kodi with a smartphone/tablet remote is just so convenient if you have a huge music collection)
I do not know too much about AVRs, you might be right DSD is not handled by them, but there is quite some USB DAC which is able to process DSD streams via USB.

**natethomas** · 2015-10-06, 18:35

Ah, alright. Makes sense.

bkund12 · 2015-10-06, 18:50

(2015-10-06, 10:16)Soli Wrote: Basically, I don't think this is a good idea at all for Kodi. Best to leave this for dedicated music players.

Hi Soli,

thanks, although I am still trying to understand better your answer, I am wondering if you could tell me why wouldn't this be good idea for KODI? When you refer to dedicated music player you mean hardware or dedicated application like Foobar2000? The point with KODI is that I have one media player for all media, (and as mentioned in the previous post Popcornhour has this functionality, although from every other aspect it is light years behind KODI in my view.)
How would you do this (as a living room setup) if not with KODI?

btw. I do appreciate a lot, the amount details you have given in the previous post, I'd welcome any further info on this topic, to learn and understand better how this whole thing works.

Soli · 2015-10-06, 20:34

It seems to me that DSD bitstreaming is a little far fetched for a general purpose mediacenter to support, since it involves nonstandard way of manipulating sound output and the requirement of exclusive access to the sound device.

But I'm also pretty sure that noone are opposed to it. FFmpeg already support DSF and DFF (and DST?) formats so to be frank it would only involve writing some wrapper code for the DoP encoding. But unless a dev has a personal need for this feature or that you are able to write it yourself, then it might never happen.

As a workaround, I'd recommend instaling MPD (preferably build it from source) and run that in the background. It can coexist with Kodi and I find it quicker and more intuitive for music playback.

ironic_monkey · (This post was last modified: 2015-10-06, 20:57 by ironic_monkey.)

no dst in ffmpeg. which sucks a lot cause my sacd vfs suffers badly from it since i have to decode on the input level (and have no idea about total size of decompressed bitstream) :/

bkund12 · 2015-10-06, 21:52

(2015-10-06, 20:54)ironic_monkey Wrote: no dst in ffmpeg. which sucks a lot cause my sacd vfs suffers badly from it since i have to decode on the input level (and have no idea about total size of decompressed bitstream) :/

so you have a way to playback SACD (and not 24/192 PCM bitstream)?

ironic_monkey · 2015-10-07, 00:48

i decode sacd to pcm. i'm not audiophile, so i don't care about the 300kHz of noise and aliasing space..

Stanislav · 2015-10-14, 17:33

(2015-10-06, 20:34)Soli Wrote: It seems to me that DSD bitstreaming is a little far fetched for a general purpose mediacenter to support, since it involves nonstandard way of manipulating sound output and the requirement of exclusive access to the sound device.

But I'm also pretty sure that noone are opposed to it. FFmpeg already support DSF and DFF (and DST?) formats so to be frank it would only involve writing some wrapper code for the DoP encoding. But unless a dev has a personal need for this feature or that you are able to write it yourself, then it might never happen.

As a workaround, I'd recommend instaling MPD (preferably build it from source) and run that in the background. It can coexist with Kodi and I find it quicker and more intuitive for music playback.

hey soli,

i tried, but could not find a way to make this workaround work. i installed mpd server, configured it and tried to control it using mpd client addon from kodi, it was failing. i run kodi in ubuntu with native alsa (no pulseaudio) and as a result kodi grabs audio device and won't let go, so mpd server complains about not getting access to it. do you have any suggestion how to have mpd coexist with kodi?

thanks,
-- stanislav

**wsnipex** · 2015-10-14, 19:20

disable "keep audio device alive" in kodi.

Soli · 2015-10-16, 14:23

If it still doesn't work, then you might want to disable sounds in Kodi entirely if you use the MPD addon. (No menu clicks)