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START HERE - Pick the Right Kodi Box (updated March 2020)
(2018-08-13, 08:04)wesk05 Wrote:
(2018-08-13, 04:08)wrxtasy Wrote: Well we will not know until someone with the correct equiptment tests and reports on those "rare" 96k and 192k Blu-ray's.
Once there is hard data then a statement can be made.
Apple TV 4K only outputs 24-bit 48kHz (default) or 16-bit 48kHz (has to be selected in the settings).  

Thanks.

So 96k/192k DTS-HD MA and Dolby True HD won't be lossless decoded (rare use case, but relevant to those who have that content), and similarly 192k or 96k FLAC etc. stereo audio releases (popular with audiophiles) will also be downsampled to 48k.  

For the vast majority of users this will be 'good enough' - but it's worth caveating as other platforms don't have the same audio limitations.

The lack of HD Audio bitstreaming won't be a huge issue for many, but it does mean you potentially lose some metadata driven functionality (user-selectable DRC driven by Dialnorm for instance) as Kodi doesn't offer those controls within its decoder path (or does it?), so while it may be lossless for one listening use case, it doesn't offer the same functionality as bitstreaming across the board.
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(2018-08-13, 10:07)noggin Wrote: The lack of HD Audio bitstreaming won't be a huge issue for many
It means you won't be able to get Dolby Atmos or DTS:X working on blu ray rips - an important point to make, as there is a lot of fuss being made about Atmos support in tvOS 12: it's important to qualify that this will only ever work for Atmos encoded in DD+ (for movies on iTunes, probably Vudu, and possibly Netflix and Amazon Video).
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(2018-08-13, 11:23)Shasarak Wrote:
(2018-08-13, 10:07)noggin Wrote: The lack of HD Audio bitstreaming won't be a huge issue for many
It means you won't be able to get Dolby Atmos or DTS:X working on blu ray rips - an important point to make, as there is a lot of fuss being made about Atmos support in tvOS 12: it's important to qualify that this will only ever work for Atmos encoded in DD+ (for movies on iTunes, probably Vudu, and possibly Netflix and Amazon Video).  

Yes - Atmos and DTS:x are other reasons that bitstreaming is a priority for some.  Personally I'm OK with PCM 5.1 output in most cases (I don't have an Atmos speaker set-up and only have 5.0) - but I realise others have different requirements.
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Here we go, some FFTs done on the PCM output of Apple TV 4K (Infuse and MrMC), LE Kodi 18 Beta (Intel Haswell) and nVIDIA Shield (Kodi 18 Beta). The test tone was a simple logarithmic sine sweep (20Hz - 20kHz, 24-bit 48kHz). The generated tone was encoded to Dolby TrueHD (5.1) and DTS-HD Master Audio (5.1). As you can see from the FFTs the decoded PCM outputs from both Dolby and DTS tracks on all 3 devices reproduce the same spectrum as the original test tone. So, you could say that they are similar perceptually. I did check the bit exactness and interestingly no output was bit perfect. I do have to mention that nVIDIA Shield only outputs 16-bit 48kHz. 24-bit output seem to be supported only for sampling rates above 48kHz.

Apple TV 4K
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There are 5 FTTs - original PCM, Dolby and DTS decoded outputs from Infuse and MrMC

LE Kodi 18 Beta (Intel Haswell)
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3 FFTs - original PCM, Decoded Dolby and DTS outputs

nVIDIA Shield
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3 FFTs - original PCM, Decoded Dolby and DTS outputs
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@wesk05

Thank you Smile
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I have seen conversations regarding tvOS 12.x - that Apple might be using Dolby Atmos in Dolby MAT (Metadata-enhanced Audio Transmissions) to add tvOS system sounds to the LPCM audio stream.

See the Dolby Atmos for Home Theatre (click) discussion paper page 12

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(2018-08-15, 03:56)wrxtasy Wrote: I have seen conversations regarding tvOS 12.x - that Apple might be using Dolby Atmos in Dolby MAT (Metadata-enhanced Audio Transmissions) to add tvOS system sounds to the LPCM audio stream.

See the Dolby Atmos for Home Theatre (click) discussion paper page 12
Interesting. References to Dolby MAT suggest that it is the way of carrying a variable bitrate Dolby True HD signal over a fixed bitrate HDMI link.

https://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/wwwd...ations.pdf

Seems to suggest that a MAT decoder is used to generate a True HD bitstream from an HDMI source?

However it looks as if Atmos has added a MAT 2.0 option to allow Atmos metadata to accompany PCM (or far more simply compressed?) streams rather than just accompanying DD+ or True HD audio? This would allow for games consoles to encode Atmos audio on-the-fly without having to encode to True HD or DD+?  I wonder if Apple TV 4K Atmos compatibility will require some form of decoding in the ATV4K to generate a MAT 2.0 stream, rather than simply bitstreaming out a DD+ Atmos stream?
Quote:Dolby Atmos in Dolby MAT
A Dolby MAT encoder resides in a Blu-ray player to pack the variable bit-rate Dolby TrueHD bitstreams for transmission over the fixed bit-rate HDMI. A Dolby MAT decoder is concurrently employed in the Dolby TrueHD decoder in the sound bar to unpack the Dolby TrueHD bitstreams. With the introduction of Dolby Atmos, we have expanded the Dolby MAT technology to support encoding and decoding of Dolby Atmos metadata incorporated in lossless pulse-code modulation (PCM) audio.
A key benefit of Dolby MAT 2.0 is that Dolby Atmos object-based audio can be live encoded and transmitted from a source device with limited latency and processing complexity. Among the likely sources are broadcast set-top boxes and game consoles. The Dolby MAT 2.0 decoder in the Dolby Atmos enabled sound bar outputs the object-based audio and its metadata for further processing inside the device. The Dolby MAT 2.0 container is scalable and leverages the full potential of the HDMI audio pipeline.

I think this refers to carrying a MAT (1.0?) Dolby True HD encoded bitstream with Atmos extensions rather than a PCM MAT 2.0 one - but may also be of interest.

2726825 (post)
Quote:Nevcairiel (developer of LAV Filters):

"Atmos bitstreaming is not fully understood. If the bitrate exceeds a certain limit, it breaks apart, because its not known how to handle that. This was never a problem with ordinary TrueHD since the bitrate doesn’t get high enough. Unfortunately the specifications for that are not available anywhere online (not even to buy), since its not part of the IEC standard that usually controls HDMI bitstreaming. So if anyone knows how Dolby MAT (Metadata-enhanced Audio Transport) works - the format used to wrap TrueHD and Atmos for HDMI transmission, please let me know. "

Incidentally it also allowed me to stumbled on this interesting bit of information. It suggests that there are two implementation options in the ARC standard (not including eARC) - and this may explain why some TVs output Atmos to their AVRs and others don't ?

http://community.cedia.net/blogs/david-m...r-hdmi-arc
Quote:HDMI Audio Return Channel (ARC) is based on the IEC 60958-1 specification, which is essentially the S/PDIF audio spec. There's two types of ARC in HDMI; Single Mode and Common Mode, but unfortunately we don't get informed as to which type any given product supports.

Single Mode ARC uses a single wire in the HDMI link, with performance limited to around 3Mbps. This enables support for 2.0 LPCM and "lossy" compressed surround formats including Dolby Digital and DTS 5.1, but nothing more. Cable length is a huge factor with Single mode, with reliability typically getting flaky beyond about 7-8m in a passive HDMI cable.

Common Mode ARC is superior, but less common (excusing the pun) in terms of deployment. It's still based on the same S/PDIF spec, but can theoretically support up to around 12Mbps. This is enough to carry 24-bit 192kHz 2-channel audio, or — to the point of this blog — a Dolby format called E-AC-3, which we know better as Dolby Digital Plus. This can also carry Metadata-enhanced Audio Transmission (MAT), being audio objects; aka Atmos.

So existing HDMI ARC can potentially support Dolby Atmos by maxing out the Common mode capability with an MAT stream. But there's a huge catch. Two, actually;

Channel count & resolution — while E-AC-3 can support up to 15.1 channels of audio, it's well beyond the HDMI ARC spec. Even getting 7.1 channels to pass is a stretch, so even if the stream contains object metadata, it will lack the resolution and height speakers.
System support — getting Atmos to work through HDMI ARC requires Common mode support in both the TV and AVR, and a high integrity link in-between. Even then, performance will be marginal.
HDMI 2.1 will change things considerably. It introduces enhanced ARC, or eARC for short, which can support up to twelve times the bandwidth of ARC, supporting up to 32 channels of 24-bit 192kHz audio! That is, eARC will support all of the same audio formats upstream as what we can already get in a downstream HDMI link.

In summary, a basic, lower resolution form of Dolby Atmos may work through existing HDMI ARC, but it is highly system and link dependent. This is why we tend to generalise that ARC doesn't support Atmos, as it's out of spec and can't be relied upon. If you are designing this capability into systems, sticking with proven product combinations and short connectivity can give your systems an edge until eARC comes along and opens up our options.

If correct it suggests that current non-eARC Atmos streaming may be compromised (but this may not be an issue for the bitrates and quality levels of OTT services?)? It may, of course, be incorrect. (Not related directly to the ATV4K Atmos output discussion - but there have been discussions about ARC and Atmos in the past ISTR)

Looks as if single mode uses Pin 14 + Ground to carry SPDIF, common mode uses Pin 14 + Pin 19 + ground to carry a differential signal (which may also be linked to Ethernet over HDMI)
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Hi guys, I already have a Kodi Box (NUC + LibreElec) and I need a "portable" one mainly to watch sports, so to be perfectly honest this isn't exactly a "Kodi box"-related question... sorry if I'm going off topic but wrxtasy seems to know everything about Android boxes.

So, I need a cheap Android Box with good WiFi that can run the official Dazn app. Do you have any recommendations? Or, can you give a hint on what I have to look for?

Thanks!
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Define portable? You mean battery powered?
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(2018-08-15, 23:34)Gkinghrn Wrote: Define portable? You mean battery powered?
 No, just "small and easy to move". Basically, any Android box will do. Smile
I'll connect it to one TV or another depending on a number of factors... I wrote "portable" as opposed to the NUC, which is connected to my "main TV" and will remain there until the end of time Smile
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(2018-08-15, 12:48)number6 Wrote: So, I need a cheap Android Box with good WiFi that can run the official Dazn app. Do you have any recommendations? Or, can you give a hint on what I have to look for?
Thanks!
The very first thing to work out is the Danz App a tablet/touchscreen Android App that needs a wireless (USB dongle) Air Mouse/Tablet remote control or is it a Android TV App that you can use with a simple wireless remote like the nice Xiaomi Mi Box remote ?

Cheap Android boxes usually have pathetic, highly directional, range limited, Infra Red remotes that do not work well at all with tablet/touchscreen Apps. You need a Wireless Air Mouse remote for complete touchscreen Apps control.
Even then such touchscreen Apps control is difficult on a TV screen and is the exact reason why Android TV and simple D-Pad remote control interactions (Up, Down, Left, Right, OK, Home and Back buttons) came about.

Good WiFi these days = Dual band 2.4GHz / 5GHz - AC WiFi. Definitely 5GHz because there is simply too much RF interference in the 2.4GHz only band.

These are really not Kodi forum questions and you more likely to find answers on Android support forums such as Reddit or Freaktab regarding the Danz App.

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Anyone tested Kodi performance on NanoPC-T4? Especially videos with HEVC/HEVC2 & H264 10bit. I'm looking for max 1080p @ 60fps.
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Hi, guys! I live without a TV for the last 12 years. It was done on purpose since I didn't watch TV programs and used my PC to watch movies and music listening. Recently I've purchased a 1080p DLP projector which is amazing with a 100" screen! And now I've come to the point where I need an external device for my HT and still have an opportunity for gaming on a big screen. (It was not trivial as it may seem to be since I did not keep track of TV/HT developments for years) So I had to analyze a ton of info for the last two weeks - my head seems to blow up now... So, I have several questions:
1) A/V connection
I don't have an opportunity to test any mid/high-end audio system (no showroom or friend-audiogeek), and my current HT room is not ideal for 5.1+ systems. So I've decided to stay on my low-end stereo system which I'm really satisfied with (suprisingly?). Besides, I want to be able to switch between my media sources (media player, PC, laptop). The AV receiver is an option, but a good one receiver is expensive and I really don't see a reason to buy it for my current preferences. Another option is HDMI switch with audio extractor - it is cheap (20-30$), but the quality is a suspect as well as some device specs: for example, there was a spec line telling the device supports 4:2:0 chrome subsampling. I've spent a ton of time trying to figure out what is chroma subsampling and how do devices handle it and sorry to say I was a success for the first point only. At first I was sure that HDMI cable transfers anything you throw at it (4:4:4, 4:2:2, etc.), and that the source device tells the receiver device how to interpret the data, but I could find only some indirect/partial confirmations and that confusing spec line of a HDMI switch about the support of 4:2:0 (I also have a theory that it's just the clarification of 1.4 hdmi bandwidth limit). So, could you kindly explain how it works and if a HDMI switch with audio extractor is a viable solution?
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2) TV box
I've looked into box posibilities and features, and can define my requirements this way:
   a) smooth perfomance
   b) RF/BT remote with voice control
   c) 4K/HDR/3D support, auto framerate switch
   d) Youtube/Twitch support
   e) fast gigabit ethernet (I don't have a solid wifi router, but in any case wifi connection is greatly limited in comparison with giga-ethernet)
   f) near-future flexibility which will allow me to simply change my 1080p projector to 4K HDR projector or TV, stereo to 5.1+

LibreELEC/OSMC or other Kodi only box
At first I've looked at Vero 4k+ which seemed a very good choice with its quality, support, community and launch price. But after one or two weeks of using Kodi on my laptop I can say it is a good player for your home media collection only. There are some good addons, but in general addon-based implementation looks like a fifth leg for a dog and really doesn't seem solid. Youtube/Twitch addons are very very inconvenient and laggy for me in comparison with a browser/desktop/mobile implementations (Yatse/Kore and Chrome extensions for throwing external media to Kodi don't make a difference; also it is a pain to play even 1080p Youtube video, 4K is not currently supported). So, the Kodi only boxes are not an option for me.
Apple TV is a nice box, but Siri doesn't seem to support my native language (I've read about partial support in some recent OS beta, but according to some user reviews Siri is not that smart for non english and is definetely far behind Google's Assistant).
Mi Box lacks a gigabit ethernet and has contradictory reviews.
Nvidia Shield seemed to be the best candidate for me, but it is also the most bugged/problematic device according to the first page of this thread.

It seems very difficult to choose a really best suitable device for the requiments, also because some problems and bugs on the first page are not relevant anymore or just outdated. Some problems are not so critical, for example, BD3D half resolution rendering - if I understand it right I can properly render full resolution BD3D on my laptop using PowerDVD, right? Audio issues impact is very complicated for me since I don't have a good understanding of current multichannel audio formats and implementation. I'll be very greatful if you could point me at some suitable devices and clarify some things and my possible overlooks. The price is not very important if the device fits "f)" requirement.

3) Game streaming
Is there a way to duplicate a PC game screen output to regular PC monitor and TV/projector with different properties? For example, 1080p x 60hz + 1080p x 144hz. I've read about Nvidia DSR, but not sure since I don't have their videocard.

Thank you.
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We will do an Android release (dual boot) for Vero 4K / 4K + by end of September as promised before.
This will let you use apps like YouTube, but nothing DRM related.

You should be able to get YouTube in 4K on the Vero 4K / 4K + using OSMC however. I did find that the amount of videos encoded in 4K VP9 was limiting however. 

Cheers

Sam
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(2018-08-22, 07:33)jam666 Wrote: I can define my requirements this way:
   a) smooth perfomance
   b) RF/BT remote with voice control
   c) 4K/HDR/3D support, auto framerate switch
   d) Youtube/Twitch support
   e) fast gigabit ethernet (I don't have a solid wifi router, but in any case wifi connection is greatly limited in comparison with giga-ethernet)
   f) near-future flexibility which will allow me to simply change my 1080p projector to 4K HDR projector or TV, stereo to 5.1+
a & b) = Shield or Apple TV 4K, no 1080p 3D on those ever. Beware the problematic Shield BT remote, it's near universally despised, see THIS recent thread.
c) = Intel hardware, Zidoo X9S or RPi if you want 1080p 3D support with proper 24p support, no Voice control
d) = Kodi Addon or an App, and the Android TV Twitch App looks like rubbish, see HERE. A lot of people seem to use the alternate Twitchy App.
f) = 5.1 DD+ audio from Netflix, Amazon Apps etc on Android TV needs a DD+ HDMI connects audio receiver. The Apple TV 4K can downmix DD+ audio so has much better Dolby Digital only audio compatibility due to it's Dolby Audio licence, when using those Apps.

f) there is already a 4K HDR10 State of Play thread that has a lot of 4K HDR detail.

Pick what is most important and what types of ... Apps, audio, seamless SDR / HDR, 3D or Voice control you actually need.
There will not be a single platform that can do everything.

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