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Win -  HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Players
(2018-05-08, 17:48)Warner306 Wrote:
(2018-05-08, 15:17)CraftyClown Wrote: I have had an issue with a couple of movies in my collection however and I believe it is due to their peculiar resolutions. They are both around the 1916 x 1040 mark which causes me massive frame drops and repeats from the outset. I was able to fix this by changing the quadrupling setting of image upscaling (I have mine set to NGU Sharp high) from 'Let MadVR decide' to 'only if scaling factor is 2.4 or bigger' Once I make that change both of the files with unusual resolutions play perfectly, however I was a little confused as in your guide I understood it to suggest that 'only if scaling factor is 2.4 or bigger' was the default if we select 'Let MadVR decide' Have I possibly misread or misunderstood the guide? Or is this a potential bug in MadVR?

Thanks again
Well, thanks for the compliment. If you can believe it, I mostly edit this guide for my own notes. I just developed the habit of researching a topic and writing a guide. I started sharing the results if I thought it was beneficial.

The image quadrupling issue appears to be a mistake on my end. If double again is selected, then the scaling factor is 2.4x. If direct quadrupling is selected (which I think it is by default), then quadrupling is activated if any upscaling after doubling required. There was a request to fix this but it hasn't happened yet. So you could fix it by selecting double again or only for 2x scaling factors. 

Thanks that makes perfect sense and does indeed fix the issue.

I have another little issue that is confusing me right now and that is some 720p 29.97fps material that I just cannot play on my 4K screen without frame drops, despite having a profile that uses NGU sharp low across the board (as opposed to my 23.976 profile that is set at NGU sharp high. The queues are filling fine so I'm not really sure what the problem might be.

Any thoughts on how I can troubleshoot this further?
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(2018-05-10, 16:11)CraftyClown Wrote:
(2018-05-08, 17:48)Warner306 Wrote:
(2018-05-08, 15:17)CraftyClown Wrote: I have had an issue with a couple of movies in my collection however and I believe it is due to their peculiar resolutions. They are both around the 1916 x 1040 mark which causes me massive frame drops and repeats from the outset. I was able to fix this by changing the quadrupling setting of image upscaling (I have mine set to NGU Sharp high) from 'Let MadVR decide' to 'only if scaling factor is 2.4 or bigger' Once I make that change both of the files with unusual resolutions play perfectly, however I was a little confused as in your guide I understood it to suggest that 'only if scaling factor is 2.4 or bigger' was the default if we select 'Let MadVR decide' Have I possibly misread or misunderstood the guide? Or is this a potential bug in MadVR?

Thanks again
Well, thanks for the compliment. If you can believe it, I mostly edit this guide for my own notes. I just developed the habit of researching a topic and writing a guide. I started sharing the results if I thought it was beneficial.

The image quadrupling issue appears to be a mistake on my end. If double again is selected, then the scaling factor is 2.4x. If direct quadrupling is selected (which I think it is by default), then quadrupling is activated if any upscaling after doubling required. There was a request to fix this but it hasn't happened yet. So you could fix it by selecting double again or only for 2x scaling factors.  

Thanks that makes perfect sense and does indeed fix the issue.

I have another little issue that is confusing me right now and that is some 720p 29.97fps material that I just cannot play on my 4K screen without frame drops, despite having a profile that uses NGU sharp low across the board (as opposed to my 23.976 profile that is set at NGU sharp high. The queues are filling fine so I'm not really sure what the problem might be.

Any thoughts on how I can troubleshoot this further? 
 The frame interval is about 33ms, so you need your average rendering time to be about 25-28ms. If that is the case, and your present queue is filling, then I would try something like super-xbr100 + AR instead. It could be an unusual resolution, where the height or width is not a standard size making for a difficult resize.
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(2018-05-10, 19:30)Warner306 Wrote:
(2018-05-10, 16:11)CraftyClown Wrote:
(2018-05-08, 17:48)Warner306 Wrote: Well, thanks for the compliment. If you can believe it, I mostly edit this guide for my own notes. I just developed the habit of researching a topic and writing a guide. I started sharing the results if I thought it was beneficial.

The image quadrupling issue appears to be a mistake on my end. If double again is selected, then the scaling factor is 2.4x. If direct quadrupling is selected (which I think it is by default), then quadrupling is activated if any upscaling after doubling required. There was a request to fix this but it hasn't happened yet. So you could fix it by selecting double again or only for 2x scaling factors.  

Thanks that makes perfect sense and does indeed fix the issue.

I have another little issue that is confusing me right now and that is some 720p 29.97fps material that I just cannot play on my 4K screen without frame drops, despite having a profile that uses NGU sharp low across the board (as opposed to my 23.976 profile that is set at NGU sharp high. The queues are filling fine so I'm not really sure what the problem might be.

Any thoughts on how I can troubleshoot this further?  
 The frame interval is about 33ms, so you need your average rendering time to be about 25-28ms. If that is the case, and your present queue is filling, then I would try something like super-xbr100 + AR instead. It could be an unusual resolution, where the height or width is not a standard size making for a difficult resize. 
I'm an absolute donkey! I just noticed that the frame rate of the file was 29.96 and not 29.97fps so it appears it was a bad encode causing my issues and not my settings after all Big Grin
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This quote is from page 1 - 'madVR's dithering algorithms will smooth 8-bit gradients to the point that dithered 8-bit and dithered 10-bit look equally as smooth when viewed on a 10/12-bit panel.'
If this is the case, can I save my GPU some work by leaving everything as 8-bit?
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(2018-08-02, 10:57)steviewunda Wrote: This quote is from page 1 - 'madVR's dithering algorithms will smooth 8-bit gradients to the point that dithered 8-bit and dithered 10-bit look equally as smooth when viewed on a 10/12-bit panel.'
If this is the case, can I save my GPU some work by leaving everything as 8-bit?
Sure, but using a gradient test pattern is always most useful to confirm they look the same. Every display is different. But dithering is good enough science to fool you into seeing 10-bits. The color blending is getting really small at 8-bits. If you can send 10/12-bits, you might as well do it. Unless your display creates banding artifacts at 12-bits, it is the better choice and adds no extra work to the GPU. A custom resolution is the best reason to use 8-bits.

There is a link here describing the basic mechanics of dithering: https://www.esterline.com/Portals/30/Pro...ned_v1.pdf

After the next build, I'll update the description of dithering and a few more sections that have become overedited and hard to read. It is not a big deal, but the choppy language and large essays are making the guide harder to actually use. I also noticed a handful of incorrect statements. I apologize if you tried to read through the most dense sections. It can get a little better for the few hundred each day that choose to use it.
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Updated for v0.92.15. Not much is new, but many improvements were made to this ridiculously long post. The images, for one, have been moved to a new image host provider, so they should be easier to compare. There are also some interesting articles linked in the HDR section that can be worth reading.
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Hi Warner306, this guide is amazing! I've been using Kodi for years with its default player and, honestly, I've never explored the madVR option because it always seemed too complicated for me. After reading every single message on this thread...I still feel the same, lol, it looks that madVR is very complex but I would definitely like to get the best possible quality from my movies so I want to try it. If it's OK I'd like to ask you and all the experts here a couple of questions and for advice.

What would happen if I only install madVR and not touch any settings, would I still get good picture quality/better than from Kodi's default video player?

I mostly play 1080p mkvs (85% of the time) and output them in 1080p (so, no upconversion) and let my LG OLED C8 TV do the heavy lifting (1080p to 4k). I don't believe I have enough GPU power to do otherwise, sometimes (15% of the time at most) I play 720p or 480p movies so there's a double upconversion there, but they still look good enough for me.

This is my hardware: i3-6100T, Intel HD Graphics 530, 8GB RAM, HDMI output that supports up to [email protected] but I have the settings at 1080 in Windows 10 (this is a dedicated HTPC so I use Option 2 for RGB output already: (Kodi) Use limited color range (16-235) -> (GPU) Full Range RGB 0-255 -> (Display) Output as RGB 16-235)).

FYI, this is the set-up guide I've used in the past to get the best possible image: LifeHacker Guide - How to Get Better Picture Quality from Your Home Theater PC

Are there any settings that you would recommend for this particular hardware/setup? Settings that would improve the image I get today but won't make Kodi crash?

Thanks in advance Warner306 and to everyone who could help me get this going in my HTPC.

Have a great day!
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Upscaling 1080p content to 4K could definitely give you a better image, but the Intel iGPUs don't have enough power to do it with high-quality upscaling. If you are outputting primarily 1080p sources at 1080p, I'm not sure it would be worth the hassle of setting up an external player. The image could be subjectively better, but not considerably better unless you add things like debanding and image sharpening. Again, I don't know if it would be worth the trouble if the gain was minimal. I can't say I can recommend using an external player with madVR given your usage.
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(2018-11-01, 23:22)Warner306 Wrote: Upscaling 1080p content to 4K could definitely give you a better image, but the Intel iGPUs don't have enough power to do it with high-quality upscaling. If you are outputting primarily 1080p sources at 1080p, I'm not sure it would be worth the hassle of setting up an external player. The image could be subjectively better, but not considerably better unless you add things like debanding and image sharpening. Again, I don't know if it would be worth the trouble if the gain was minimal. I can't say I can recommend using an external player with madVR given your usage.
OK then, thank you so much for answering Warner306. I'm definitely not planning on buying a new GPU soon so I'll just keep it my HTPC as is, especially since the new version of Kodi (v18) should be released sometime this year (I think) and it will probably have some improvements.
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Hello @Warner306 
I am coming to Dsplayer after many years to mediaportal. My first impressions are very positive. System is far more responsive and UHD playback is superior to mediaportal with MADvr (lower render times). But i am facing a little problem. If i choose in Lav filters d3d11 native decoder, the first file that i play is fine with render time ~ 11 ms. If i stop the file and play a different one render time goes up to ~ 45 ms. MADVR OSD says that final step is way too high. If i choose DXVA2 Native in Lav everything is fine but with slightly increased render times ~ 17 ms. I know that i am doing something wrong but i dont know what?
Can you think of something ?
PC----> AMD A10-5700, Nvidia 1030 with latest drivers, 4GB system Ram, Win10 64bit, Latest Lav and Madvr(default settings)

Regards
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I really don't know. I would set the video processing settings in madVR to the default values and set the CPU and GPU queues to 8/8 and present frames in advance in madVR to 4-6 (in both DSPlayer settings and madVR). You have limited VRAM to work with. When the rendering spikes happen, which queue is empty?
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You are probably on the cusp of your settings.  Being only a GT 1030 doesn't help.  Some files are more demanding than others.  Settings that work fine with one 2160p title may not work with another 2160p and so on.  Find SD, 720p, 1080p, 2160p, etc. files that are hard to decode and remember them.  These are what to adjust to even though you have leftover headroom for other similar titles.  For example, I use The Hunger Games UHD title as my settings test and it's right at the edge although most every other UHD title plays easily with lots of headroom leftover.  Even similar titles at the same bitrate.

To confirm, reverse the order of your playback.  The 2nd playback title that stumbles, play it first and then subsequently play the one that had no problem.  If it turns out to be a 'subsequent' playback problem and works ok, you have other problems.
HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10/1809 MPC-BE\HC PDVD18 DVDFab3 KODI 18.1 960-4GB/RGB 4:4:4/Desktop=60Hz/Video=Matched Refresh rates 8bit/65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D
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Let me describe it better

Power on Pc and start DSPlayer.
Play Thor Ragnarok ------->Render time 11ms
stop Thor
Play Venom ------------> Render time 11ms
stop Venom
Play Avengers---------> Render time 40ms (First Que to fail is Render)
stop Avengers and exit Dsplayer
Start Dsplayer and play Avengers---------> Render time 11ms
If i choose DXVA2 Native in LAV this is not happening and i can play as many files i want in a row (but with slightly raised times ~17ms). 
I am very happy by using DXVA2 Native but i am under the impression that D3D11 is better.
Regards and Merry Christmas
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why do not you use DXVA2 copy-back in the LAV filters? I'll give you the answer on a question I asked "warner" on another discussion, maybe it can help.

(2018-12-22, 19:01)giulianoprs Wrote:
I've always wondered in the LAV video filters what is the difference between setting up
D3D11 or DVXA2 (copy-back)

WARNER306-
DXVA2 copy-back copies back the decoded frames to the system RAM before passing it back to the GPU.

D3D11 Native does not copy back to system.

In practice, both are about the same speed, but some madVR processing can be faster with D3D11 Native, so I would use it.

The video quality will be identical.
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Thx for the advice. Will try DXVA2 CB tomorrow and report back.
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