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Win -  HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Players
(2018-05-08, 17:48)Warner306 Wrote:
(2018-05-08, 15:17)CraftyClown Wrote: I have had an issue with a couple of movies in my collection however and I believe it is due to their peculiar resolutions. They are both around the 1916 x 1040 mark which causes me massive frame drops and repeats from the outset. I was able to fix this by changing the quadrupling setting of image upscaling (I have mine set to NGU Sharp high) from 'Let MadVR decide' to 'only if scaling factor is 2.4 or bigger' Once I make that change both of the files with unusual resolutions play perfectly, however I was a little confused as in your guide I understood it to suggest that 'only if scaling factor is 2.4 or bigger' was the default if we select 'Let MadVR decide' Have I possibly misread or misunderstood the guide? Or is this a potential bug in MadVR?

Thanks again
Well, thanks for the compliment. If you can believe it, I mostly edit this guide for my own notes. I just developed the habit of researching a topic and writing a guide. I started sharing the results if I thought it was beneficial.

The image quadrupling issue appears to be a mistake on my end. If double again is selected, then the scaling factor is 2.4x. If direct quadrupling is selected (which I think it is by default), then quadrupling is activated if any upscaling after doubling required. There was a request to fix this but it hasn't happened yet. So you could fix it by selecting double again or only for 2x scaling factors. 

Thanks that makes perfect sense and does indeed fix the issue.

I have another little issue that is confusing me right now and that is some 720p 29.97fps material that I just cannot play on my 4K screen without frame drops, despite having a profile that uses NGU sharp low across the board (as opposed to my 23.976 profile that is set at NGU sharp high. The queues are filling fine so I'm not really sure what the problem might be.

Any thoughts on how I can troubleshoot this further?
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(2018-05-10, 16:11)CraftyClown Wrote:
(2018-05-08, 17:48)Warner306 Wrote:
(2018-05-08, 15:17)CraftyClown Wrote: I have had an issue with a couple of movies in my collection however and I believe it is due to their peculiar resolutions. They are both around the 1916 x 1040 mark which causes me massive frame drops and repeats from the outset. I was able to fix this by changing the quadrupling setting of image upscaling (I have mine set to NGU Sharp high) from 'Let MadVR decide' to 'only if scaling factor is 2.4 or bigger' Once I make that change both of the files with unusual resolutions play perfectly, however I was a little confused as in your guide I understood it to suggest that 'only if scaling factor is 2.4 or bigger' was the default if we select 'Let MadVR decide' Have I possibly misread or misunderstood the guide? Or is this a potential bug in MadVR?

Thanks again
Well, thanks for the compliment. If you can believe it, I mostly edit this guide for my own notes. I just developed the habit of researching a topic and writing a guide. I started sharing the results if I thought it was beneficial.

The image quadrupling issue appears to be a mistake on my end. If double again is selected, then the scaling factor is 2.4x. If direct quadrupling is selected (which I think it is by default), then quadrupling is activated if any upscaling after doubling required. There was a request to fix this but it hasn't happened yet. So you could fix it by selecting double again or only for 2x scaling factors.  

Thanks that makes perfect sense and does indeed fix the issue.

I have another little issue that is confusing me right now and that is some 720p 29.97fps material that I just cannot play on my 4K screen without frame drops, despite having a profile that uses NGU sharp low across the board (as opposed to my 23.976 profile that is set at NGU sharp high. The queues are filling fine so I'm not really sure what the problem might be.

Any thoughts on how I can troubleshoot this further? 
 The frame interval is about 33ms, so you need your average rendering time to be about 25-28ms. If that is the case, and your present queue is filling, then I would try something like super-xbr100 + AR instead. It could be an unusual resolution, where the height or width is not a standard size making for a difficult resize.
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(2018-05-10, 19:30)Warner306 Wrote:
(2018-05-10, 16:11)CraftyClown Wrote:
(2018-05-08, 17:48)Warner306 Wrote: Well, thanks for the compliment. If you can believe it, I mostly edit this guide for my own notes. I just developed the habit of researching a topic and writing a guide. I started sharing the results if I thought it was beneficial.

The image quadrupling issue appears to be a mistake on my end. If double again is selected, then the scaling factor is 2.4x. If direct quadrupling is selected (which I think it is by default), then quadrupling is activated if any upscaling after doubling required. There was a request to fix this but it hasn't happened yet. So you could fix it by selecting double again or only for 2x scaling factors.  

Thanks that makes perfect sense and does indeed fix the issue.

I have another little issue that is confusing me right now and that is some 720p 29.97fps material that I just cannot play on my 4K screen without frame drops, despite having a profile that uses NGU sharp low across the board (as opposed to my 23.976 profile that is set at NGU sharp high. The queues are filling fine so I'm not really sure what the problem might be.

Any thoughts on how I can troubleshoot this further?  
 The frame interval is about 33ms, so you need your average rendering time to be about 25-28ms. If that is the case, and your present queue is filling, then I would try something like super-xbr100 + AR instead. It could be an unusual resolution, where the height or width is not a standard size making for a difficult resize. 
I'm an absolute donkey! I just noticed that the frame rate of the file was 29.96 and not 29.97fps so it appears it was a bad encode causing my issues and not my settings after all Big Grin
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This quote is from page 1 - 'madVR's dithering algorithms will smooth 8-bit gradients to the point that dithered 8-bit and dithered 10-bit look equally as smooth when viewed on a 10/12-bit panel.'
If this is the case, can I save my GPU some work by leaving everything as 8-bit?
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(2018-08-02, 10:57)steviewunda Wrote: This quote is from page 1 - 'madVR's dithering algorithms will smooth 8-bit gradients to the point that dithered 8-bit and dithered 10-bit look equally as smooth when viewed on a 10/12-bit panel.'
If this is the case, can I save my GPU some work by leaving everything as 8-bit?
Sure, but using a gradient test pattern is always most useful to confirm they look the same. Every display is different. But dithering is good enough science to fool you into seeing 10-bits. The color blending is getting really small at 8-bits. If you can send 10/12-bits, you might as well do it. Unless your display creates banding artifacts at 12-bits, it is the better choice and adds no extra work to the GPU. A custom resolution is the best reason to use 8-bits.

There is a link here describing the basic mechanics of dithering: https://www.esterline.com/Portals/30/Pro...ned_v1.pdf

After the next build, I'll update the description of dithering and a few more sections that have become overedited and hard to read. It is not a big deal, but the choppy language and large essays are making the guide harder to actually use. I also noticed a handful of incorrect statements. I apologize if you tried to read through the most dense sections. It can get a little better for the few hundred each day that choose to use it.
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Updated for v0.92.15. Not much is new, but many improvements were made to this ridiculously long post. The images, for one, have been moved to a new image host provider, so they should be easier to compare. There are also some interesting articles linked in the HDR section that can be worth reading.
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Hi Warner306, this guide is amazing! I've been using Kodi for years with its default player and, honestly, I've never explored the madVR option because it always seemed too complicated for me. After reading every single message on this thread...I still feel the same, lol, it looks that madVR is very complex but I would definitely like to get the best possible quality from my movies so I want to try it. If it's OK I'd like to ask you and all the experts here a couple of questions and for advice.

What would happen if I only install madVR and not touch any settings, would I still get good picture quality/better than from Kodi's default video player?

I mostly play 1080p mkvs (85% of the time) and output them in 1080p (so, no upconversion) and let my LG OLED C8 TV do the heavy lifting (1080p to 4k). I don't believe I have enough GPU power to do otherwise, sometimes (15% of the time at most) I play 720p or 480p movies so there's a double upconversion there, but they still look good enough for me.

This is my hardware: i3-6100T, Intel HD Graphics 530, 8GB RAM, HDMI output that supports up to [email protected] but I have the settings at 1080 in Windows 10 (this is a dedicated HTPC so I use Option 2 for RGB output already: (Kodi) Use limited color range (16-235) -> (GPU) Full Range RGB 0-255 -> (Display) Output as RGB 16-235)).

FYI, this is the set-up guide I've used in the past to get the best possible image: LifeHacker Guide - How to Get Better Picture Quality from Your Home Theater PC

Are there any settings that you would recommend for this particular hardware/setup? Settings that would improve the image I get today but won't make Kodi crash?

Thanks in advance Warner306 and to everyone who could help me get this going in my HTPC.

Have a great day!
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Upscaling 1080p content to 4K could definitely give you a better image, but the Intel iGPUs don't have enough power to do it with high-quality upscaling. If you are outputting primarily 1080p sources at 1080p, I'm not sure it would be worth the hassle of setting up an external player. The image could be subjectively better, but not considerably better unless you add things like debanding and image sharpening. Again, I don't know if it would be worth the trouble if the gain was minimal. I can't say I can recommend using an external player with madVR given your usage.
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(2018-11-01, 23:22)Warner306 Wrote: Upscaling 1080p content to 4K could definitely give you a better image, but the Intel iGPUs don't have enough power to do it with high-quality upscaling. If you are outputting primarily 1080p sources at 1080p, I'm not sure it would be worth the hassle of setting up an external player. The image could be subjectively better, but not considerably better unless you add things like debanding and image sharpening. Again, I don't know if it would be worth the trouble if the gain was minimal. I can't say I can recommend using an external player with madVR given your usage.
OK then, thank you so much for answering Warner306. I'm definitely not planning on buying a new GPU soon so I'll just keep it my HTPC as is, especially since the new version of Kodi (v18) should be released sometime this year (I think) and it will probably have some improvements.
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