Windows - HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Players

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Warner306 Offline
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Post: #46
(2016-02-24 17:57)gotham_x Wrote:  In the meantime, I did some tests with my GTX970. rip source BD 1:1

Settings current 1080> 1080

Chroma upscaling: NNEDI3 - 128 neurons
Image upscaling: JINC AR
Image downscaling: 2D SSIM 100% AR - LL
Image Doubling: OFF
Upscaling Refinement: Crispen edges: 1.0 / Linear Light and AR
SuperRes: 2 w / linear light
Artifact removal - Debanding: Medium / High
Image enhancements: Off
Dithering Error Diffusion - option 2

(0 Dropped frames - OSD rendering 29 / 30ms)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tested Settings; 1080p -> 2160p Supersampling

Chroma upscaling : super-xbr100 + AR
Image upscaling : Jinc3 + AR
Image downscaling: 2D SSIM 100% AR - LL
Image Doubling: Double Luma - Always 2x Supersampling - super-xbr100
Upscaling Refinement: Crispen edges: 1.0 / Linear Light and AR
SuperRes: 2 / linear light
Artifact removal - Debanding: Medium / High
Image enhancements: Off
Dithering Error Diffusion - option 2

(Rain Dropped frames - OSD rendering 60 / 65ms)

somewhat perplexed rest without giving a judgment entirely objective for image quality and resources used , chance , in practical terms , the second settings Supersampling , It should not be more conservative for resources used ?

It would have to be more conservative. Your GPU is not powerful enough because of the high dropped frames. I don't think the image looks any better, so you could be wasting your time. But I would start with setting chroma upscaling to Catmull-Rom and dithering to Ordered.
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gotham_x Offline
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Post: #47
In fact it is so, it seems more time lost , however, part of this trial setting has been taken as a sample from your settings 1080 -> 2160 published in the guide with some variation.

According to your opinion and experience, even if found a more conservative settings for Supersampling , would have real benefits at the level of video quality and resources used at comparison of my current settings 1080 -> 1080 where it is used NNEDI3 - 128 neurons ? This made me wonder , what benefits can 'have with supersampling algorithm that works Low Processing , by contrast an algorithm structure Maximum Processing ,in this case :

Settings current 1080> 1080

Chroma upscaling: NNEDI3 - 128 neurons
Image upscaling: JINC AR
Image downscaling: 2D SSIM 100% AR - LL
Image Doubling: OFF
Upscaling Refinement: Crispen edges: 1.0 / Linear Light and AR
SuperRes: 2 w / linear light
Artifact removal - Debanding: Medium / High
Image enhancements: Off
Dithering Error Diffusion - option 2

(0 Dropped frames - OSD rendering 29 / 30ms)
(This post was last modified: 2016-02-25 00:16 by gotham_x.)
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Warner306 Offline
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Post: #48
(2016-02-25 00:14)gotham_x Wrote:  In fact it is so, it seems more time lost , however, part of this trial setting has been taken as a sample from your settings 1080 -> 2160 published in the guide with some variation.

According to your opinion and experience, even if found a more conservative settings for Supersampling , would have real benefits at the level of video quality and resources used at comparison of my current settings 1080 -> 1080 where it is used NNEDI3 - 128 neurons ? This made me wonder , what benefits can 'have with supersampling algorithm that works Low Processing , by contrast an algorithm structure Maximum Processing ,in this case :

Settings current 1080> 1080

Chroma upscaling: NNEDI3 - 128 neurons
Image upscaling: JINC AR
Image downscaling: 2D SSIM 100% AR - LL
Image Doubling: OFF
Upscaling Refinement: Crispen edges: 1.0 / Linear Light and AR
SuperRes: 2 w / linear light
Artifact removal - Debanding: Medium / High
Image enhancements: Off
Dithering Error Diffusion - option 2

(0 Dropped frames - OSD rendering 29 / 30ms)

The sharpening effect would be more soft with supersampling. You would get a sharper image with your current settings. Supersampling might show fewer ringing artifacts but I think the overall image would be worse.

Stick with your current settings. Personally, I prefer using crispen edges from image enhancements with a native source.
(This post was last modified: 2016-02-25 02:16 by Warner306.)
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gotham_x Offline
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Post: #49
Supersampling with source 1080p and panel 2160p , as behaves ? risk , image downscaling to correct the Overscale: 2160p -> 1080p. would skipped ?
(This post was last modified: 2016-02-25 10:44 by gotham_x.)
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johnwad Offline
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Post: #50
when i try to install the new jarvis, i get the error message,
unable to create G.U.I, any help please.
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Warner306 Offline
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Post: #51
(2016-02-25 10:43)gotham_x Wrote:  Supersampling with source 1080p and panel 2160p , as behaves ? risk , image downscaling to correct the Overscale: 2160p -> 1080p. would skipped ?

You can't supersample a 1080p source to 2160p, if that is what you are asking. As I said, supersampling isn't that big of a deal, anyways.
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Warner306 Offline
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Post: #52
(2016-02-25 15:35)johnwad Wrote:  when i try to install the new jarvis, i get the error message,
unable to create G.U.I, any help please.

I would need more information than that.
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axlt2002 Offline
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Post: #53
Hi Warner306,

First of all I would like to tank you for the passion you are putting and sharing here in the forum.

I'm actually reading for the first time your guides and I have an initial question. My system has an A8-6500 APU in Dual Graphics with a Radeon HD 6770 1GB DDR5 and everything is managed through the CCC (Catalyst Control Center). As you probably know, CCC provides a lot of features for image elaboration such as color enhancement, different deinterlacing algorithms, etc. How Am I supposed to set such controls? Have I to disable everything (the only one si not possible to completely disable is the deinterlacing) or this will bypassed in some way by madVR?

Thanks in advance for any help!
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Warner306 Offline
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Post: #54
(2016-02-25 23:57)axlt2002 Wrote:  Hi Warner306,

First of all I would like to tank you for the passion you are putting and sharing here in the forum.

I'm actually reading for the first time your guides and I have an initial question. My system has an A8-6500 APU in Dual Graphics with a Radeon HD 6770 1GB DDR5 and everything is managed through the CCC (Catalyst Control Center). As you probably know, CCC provides a lot of features for image elaboration such as color enhancement, different deinterlacing algorithms, etc. How Am I supposed to set such controls? Have I to disable everything (the only one si not possible to completely disable is the deinterlacing) or this will bypassed in some way by madVR?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Set everything to be controlled by the media player. madVR should be responsible for all these enhancements. If it is unclear how to do this for some settings, just leave them at the default.
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huhn Offline
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Post: #55
madVR is a "computer game" for a GPU driver. only deinlancing and DXVA scaling are altered by these driver settings.

this is a basic feature of madVR
Quote:- bypasses graphics card's video (damage) algorithms
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axlt2002 Offline
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Post: #56
Thanks guys for your answers.

huhn, may be I didn't catch completely your point. Can you please clarify how the mentioned "alterations" may influence madVR? Deinterlacing and scaling are then done by the driver settinggs on top of the one of madVR?
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axlt2002 Offline
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Post: #57
(2016-02-08 05:50)Warner306 Wrote:  Option 1:

When sending video via HDMI to a TV, the most straightforward color space is set as follows:

(madVR) PC levels (0-255) -> (GPU) Limited Range RGB 16-235 -> (TV) Output as RGB 16-235

madVR expands the source 16-235 signal to full range RGB leaving the conversion back to 16-235 to the graphics card. Expanding the source prevents the GPU from clipping the image during conversion to 16-235.

Option 2:

If your PC is a dedicated HTPC, an alternative approach is possible:

(madVR) TV levels (16-235) -> (Kodi) Use limited color range (16-235) -> (GPU) Full Range RGB 0-255 -> (TV) Output as RGB 16-235

In this configuration, the signal remains 16-235 until it reaches the TV avoiding any conversion by the GPU. When set to full range, the GPU will allow passthrough without clipping the levels output by madVR. This is the most pure path, which preserves the original levels and minimizes added dithering. However, other computer applications will appear over-saturated as a result unless they are also configured to use 16-235 levels. Kodi must be configured under System -> Video output to use a limited color range to match madVR. While considered passthrough, it is possible from some GPUs to alter the image in unwanted ways. If using this method, it is best to test the black and white clipping with these MP4 test patterns before and after adjustment.

Option 3:

A final option involves setting all sources to full range:

(madVR) PC levels (0-255) -> (GPU) Full Range RGB 0-255 -> (TV) Output as RGB 0-255

madVR expands the source to 0-255 and displays it full range on your television. The TV's HDMI black level must be set to show full RGB (Normal vs. Low). The result can vary depending on how well your TV displays whiter-than-white and blacker-than-black values. Use of these MP4 test patterns for black and white clipping can be used to confirm a correct grayscale is maintained. This may be the optimal setting for TVs with a full range setting and reduces the chance of added banding when the GPU must convert to a limited range.

Hi Warner, I have to say that your guide is incredible and very well done! Thanks!

One question about RGB management: how LAV Video Filters "RGB Output levels" option does impact on the three options you reported?

In addition to that I don't understand why, in option 2, Kodi intervenes after madVR and not before, and why Kodi is not reported in the other two options.

Thanks a lot for any clarification.
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Warner306 Offline
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Post: #58
(2016-02-27 23:43)axlt2002 Wrote:  
(2016-02-08 05:50)Warner306 Wrote:  Option 1:

When sending video via HDMI to a TV, the most straightforward color space is set as follows:

(madVR) PC levels (0-255) -> (GPU) Limited Range RGB 16-235 -> (TV) Output as RGB 16-235

madVR expands the source 16-235 signal to full range RGB leaving the conversion back to 16-235 to the graphics card. Expanding the source prevents the GPU from clipping the image during conversion to 16-235.

Option 2:

If your PC is a dedicated HTPC, an alternative approach is possible:

(madVR) TV levels (16-235) -> (Kodi) Use limited color range (16-235) -> (GPU) Full Range RGB 0-255 -> (TV) Output as RGB 16-235

In this configuration, the signal remains 16-235 until it reaches the TV avoiding any conversion by the GPU. When set to full range, the GPU will allow passthrough without clipping the levels output by madVR. This is the most pure path, which preserves the original levels and minimizes added dithering. However, other computer applications will appear over-saturated as a result unless they are also configured to use 16-235 levels. Kodi must be configured under System -> Video output to use a limited color range to match madVR. While considered passthrough, it is possible from some GPUs to alter the image in unwanted ways. If using this method, it is best to test the black and white clipping with these MP4 test patterns before and after adjustment.

Option 3:

A final option involves setting all sources to full range:

(madVR) PC levels (0-255) -> (GPU) Full Range RGB 0-255 -> (TV) Output as RGB 0-255

madVR expands the source to 0-255 and displays it full range on your television. The TV's HDMI black level must be set to show full RGB (Normal vs. Low). The result can vary depending on how well your TV displays whiter-than-white and blacker-than-black values. Use of these MP4 test patterns for black and white clipping can be used to confirm a correct grayscale is maintained. This may be the optimal setting for TVs with a full range setting and reduces the chance of added banding when the GPU must convert to a limited range.

Hi Warner, I have to say that your guide is incredible and very well done! Thanks!

One question about RGB management: how LAV Video Filters "RGB Output levels" option does impact on the three options you reported?

In addition to that I don't understand why, in option 2, Kodi intervenes after madVR and not before, and why Kodi is not reported in the other two options.

Thanks a lot for any clarification.

LAV RGB settings don't do anything. It says that in the guide before that section.

Kodi outputs at 0-255, by default. Only Option #2 requires 16-235, where Kodi would have to be adjusted. Otherwise, you don't have to do anything to Kodi.

Settings pertaining to Kodi only impact the Kodi menus and Kodi DVDPlayer. Keep that in mind.

Edit: I adjusted both of those points in the guide for clarification.
(This post was last modified: 2016-02-28 00:14 by Warner306.)
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Warner306 Offline
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Post: #59
(2016-02-27 13:49)huhn Wrote:  madVR is a "computer game" for a GPU driver. only deinlancing and DXVA scaling are altered by these driver settings.

this is a basic feature of madVR
Quote:- bypasses graphics card's video (damage) algorithms

I think he is saying none of the GPU control panel settings would apply to madVR. Would this apply to everything (brightness, contrast, tint, etc.)?
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huhn Offline
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Post: #60
(2016-02-28 09:46)Warner306 Wrote:  
(2016-02-27 13:49)huhn Wrote:  madVR is a "computer game" for a GPU driver. only deinlancing and DXVA scaling are altered by these driver settings.

this is a basic feature of madVR
Quote:- bypasses graphics card's video (damage) algorithms

I think he is saying none of the GPU control panel settings would apply to madVR. Would this apply to everything (brightness, contrast, tint, etc.)?

no this only counts for video settings.
these settings like brightness, contrast and hue are neutral be default so we only need to take care of video settings for "DXVA stuff" and the pixel format.
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