add support for VTT
#1
Can you please add support for vtt subtitles?

I already created a ticket at MKVToolNix.

VTT is a subtitle format very similar to srt and used by YouTube now.


MPC-BE developers have kindly added support of WebVTT subtitles:
Browse for r1207 here
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#2
just came across a need for this.
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#3
I created a samplefile with several VTT subtitle streams:
I know it's a bit big (~1 GB), however here it is:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4y5u0g...sp=sharing
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#4
your file is broken. S_TEXT/WEBVTT is not a valid codec id. i didn't dig the details but ffmpeg expects D_WEBVTT/SUBTITLES, D_WEBVTT/CAPTIONS, D_WEBVTT/DESCRIPTIONS, D_WEBVTT/METADATA.

i tried changing the codec id but then i got no text. i tried to demux the tracks using ffmpeg and i get blank files. no player i can find supports these files.

did you just waste 30 mins of my precious time?
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#5
(2016-04-12, 23:36)ironic_monkey Wrote: your file is broken. S_TEXT/WEBVTT is not a valid codec id. i didn't dig the details but ffmpeg expects D_WEBVTT/SUBTITLES, D_WEBVTT/CAPTIONS, D_WEBVTT/DESCRIPTIONS, D_WEBVTT/METADATA.

i tried changing the codec id but then i got no text. i tried to demux the tracks using ffmpeg and i get blank files. no player i can find supports these files.

did you just waste 30 mins of my precious time?

Played back fine for me using MPC-HC and whatever was installed with the CCCP. o.O
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#6
So. Windows trash not following standards again. Sigh.
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#7
Hi,
I contacted the developer of MKVToolNix (it's the software I used to create this samplefile) and he can help us to to understand the things. He answered already in English for me (Moritz Bunkus and I are from Germany). He sent me the following text to post here:

"Up until a couple of days ago the storage of WebVTT in Matroska hadn't
been specified yet. What ffmpeg seems to support (D_WEBVTT/…) is an old
and outdated work-in-progress paper by the WebM project[1]. We (as in
the Matroska project) have decided not to use their proposal in Matroska
for several reasons:

1. The proposal is old (from February 2012). The WebVTT specs have
changed considerably since then, and therefore the WebM proposal
doesn't handle several of those additions and changes.

2. It suggests splitting the single WebVTT file into multiple tracks
inside WebM. This is possible but it makes handling of multiple
tracks more difficult than it has to be for demuxers and
remuxers. Additionally there's no way to specify that several tracks
belong to the same logical track and must be handled all at once.

3. The WebM proposal is still a work in progress and WebM still
officially doesn't support subtitles at all[2].

The Matroska project has now formalized the storage of WebVTT in
Matroska[3]. The specs have been added to the Matroska web site[4]. The
way mkvmerge stores WebVTT is therefore correct; the file isn't broken.

The next step should be to add support in ffmpeg for the current storage
method."

He added some links where you can lookup up the specification:

[1] http://wiki.webmproject.org/webm-metadat...tt-in-webm
[2] http://www.webmproject.org/docs/container/
[3] http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.multi...devel/5210
[4] https://www.matroska.org/technical/specs...ebvtt.html

(2016-04-13, 03:46)DJ_Izumi Wrote: Played back fine for me using MPC-HC and whatever was installed with the CCCP. o.O
Thank you for your feedback


(2016-04-12, 23:36)ironic_monkey Wrote: your file is broken. S_TEXT/WEBVTT is not a valid codec id. i didn't dig the details but ffmpeg expects D_WEBVTT/SUBTITLES, D_WEBVTT/CAPTIONS, D_WEBVTT/DESCRIPTIONS, D_WEBVTT/METADATA.

i tried changing the codec id but then i got no text. i tried to demux the tracks using ffmpeg and i get blank files.

(2016-04-13, 08:37)ironic_monkey Wrote: So. Windows trash not following standards again. Sigh.

If you go to [4] https://www.matroska.org/technical/specs...ebvtt.html
you can clearly see that the file is not broken, it is the right way.

"Storage of WebVTT in Matroska
CodecID: codec identification

The CodecID to use is S_TEXT/WEBVTT."


(2016-04-12, 23:36)ironic_monkey Wrote: no player i can find supports these files.
So MPC-HC which is updated recently can play it according to DJ_Izumi and latest MPC-BE can also play it:
You can get the latest version of MPC-BE here:
https://yadi.sk/d/hlf1lfC8mKU58/!_last
If you're not on Windows, you must wait till a player is updated to the new subtitle format.

From my personal side - @ironic_monkey
(2016-04-12, 23:36)ironic_monkey Wrote: did you just waste 30 mins of my precious time?
Don't be so arrogant and PLEASE don't write so aggressive, I really don't like your aggressive behaviour.


Cheers,
Klaus

If anybody has any questions, let me know Wink
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#8
thanks for the investigation. i'm not really being aggressive, it's just my way of communicating when i'm short on time. i've been burned many many times by windows filters doing things in their own creative ways before, and i'm not very found of people not considering that they are asking others to spend their time on things, and then they don't even take the time to check the samples they put out (which obviously wasn't the case here but it sure looked like it). which i've also been burned my more than once.

this has to be taken to ffmpeg upstream as noted.
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#9
(2016-04-13, 13:48)ironic_monkey Wrote: i'm not very found of people not considering that they are asking others to spend their time on things, and then they don't even take the time to check the samples they put out (which obviously wasn't the case here but it sure looked like it). which i've also been burned my more than once.
That's Ok, but if you took the little time to click on my link of my first post you'll see, that I was the guy who asked the developer of THE Matroska tool MKVToolNix to add support for WebVTT. That's the reason why the specification is so new. Here is my first post:
(2016-02-25, 11:13)Klaus1189 Wrote: I already created a ticket at MKVToolNix.
MPC-BE developers have kindly added support of WebVTT subtitles:
Browse for r1207 here

I was also the guy who asked the developers of MPC-BE to add support for WebVTT support, that's the reason why I know MPC-BE supports it.
MPC-BE supports since r1207 external WebVTT subtitles, because I asked for support (at least for the basic youtube usage which is enough for now)
Follow the link to see my post from 24. February for adding WebVTT support: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=...ost1758364
In these days NOBODY was able to create a MKV file with the TRUE specs. That's the reason why the developers added it in r1405 (some hours ago)
And here you can see, that I asked yesterday (!) for WebVTT support in MKV: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=...ost1764241

(2016-04-13, 13:48)ironic_monkey Wrote: i'm not really being aggressive, it's just my way of communicating when i'm short on time.
Think of writing not so aggessive. This will help us and especially you for the future.

So please don't call it:
(2016-04-13, 13:48)ironic_monkey Wrote: but it sure looked like it
That's not true. Trust me, I'm not one of those who talk shit, I double check things before asking people. In future investigate a bit deeper.


(2016-04-13, 13:48)ironic_monkey Wrote: this has to be taken to ffmpeg upstream as noted.

I create a ticket at ffmpeg.

(2016-04-13, 13:48)ironic_monkey Wrote: thanks for the investigation.

You are welcome. Wink
Have a nice day

Now it's time for the developers of Kodi to let us know if they add support. And if yes, when Kodi will support WebVTT.
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#10
(2016-04-13, 14:32)Klaus1189 Wrote:
(2016-04-13, 13:48)ironic_monkey Wrote: i'm not really being aggressive, it's just my way of communicating when i'm short on time.
Think of writing not so aggessive. This will help us and especially you for the future.

.... Shocked

Klaus1189, you are talking to one of the most prolific developers of Kodi since it began. Giving him advice on his forum behavior is like telling Ron Swanson (if you've seen Parks and Rec) to shave his mustache.

You are welcome to disagree with him, but I'd very much recommend against acting like he doesn't know what he's talking about. I'm not sure how you'd do it, but you might consider offering him a beer instead.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go hide behind a couch.
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#11
Ooh, I didn't know that ... I never said, that he doesn't know what he is talking about but his information was old and not up-to-date. I pointed some things out, that I did for WebVTT already. WebVTT is the standard subtitle format of YouTube now, but I already mentioned that. -> That's the reason for the need of WebVTT support in Kodi
Maybe I'm not an average user, however, here is the link to the ticket at ffmpeg, that I created yesterday: https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/5434

@natethomas: Thank you for the information Blush
@developers: Do you plan to add support of WebVTT? Is this dependent on ffmpeg? Huh
@ironic_monkey: Do you want a beer? Let's get drunk together Wink
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#12
@Klaus1189 - buy him a 6-pack Dahls (IIRC his fav beer brand) and you might survive Smile
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#13
all embedded subtitles are handled by ffmpeg. kodi is just given an overlay to show. external subtitles are for historic reasons handled differently, although handling them through ffmpeg as well would be a nice cleanup. thus, once it's supported in ffmpeg it just works™ in kodi.

i am always up for a beer Smile
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#14
(2016-04-14, 14:13)ironic_monkey Wrote: i am always up for a beer Smile
as a nor_lombian I guess I should try my peoples beer. looks like something may be in nyc : http://brooklynbrewery.com/blog/brewery-...ry-family/
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#15
Ok, so ffmpeg needs to be enhanced. As already mentioned I created this ticket: https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/5434
Is there anything else I can do to accelerate the process?
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