4K / HDR content

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Zokkel Offline
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Post: #16
Noggin,

Thanks for the reading (http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=...pid2361400)

(2016-06-20 13:18)noggin Wrote:  However it appears that HDR-10 and Dolby Vision both require specific metadata handling in addition to just sending 10 bit video over HDMI, so 10 bit decode and output may not be enough.

I think it does, but your optical hardware (TV, Monitor) has to be able to read that metadata as well. So I think your TV has to be HDR10/Dolby Vision capable. And If I'm not mistaken, the TV's with the Ultra HD Premium certificate are.

After some (little) more thinking I came to the conclusion that we don't need a 'Ultra HD Premium certificate', but a 'Full HD Premium certificate'. Since I should need a 90inch TV in my living room to benefit for the 4K resolution.
And as far as i can understand, that is perfectly possible: Dolby Vision is currently qualified with HEVC and AVC decoders. So I guess HDR10 is also?
That would mean: Smaller file size (far more less pixels), for the exact same image (viewed on a 50inch TV from a 3,5meters (11,5 feet) distance)

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noggin Offline
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Post: #17
(2016-06-20 14:20)Zokkel Wrote:  Noggin,

Thanks for the reading (http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=...pid2361400)

(2016-06-20 13:18)noggin Wrote:  However it appears that HDR-10 and Dolby Vision both require specific metadata handling in addition to just sending 10 bit video over HDMI, so 10 bit decode and output may not be enough.

I think it does, but your optical hardware (TV, Monitor) has to be able to read that metadata as well. So I think your TV has to be HDR10/Dolby Vision capable. And If I'm not mistaken, the TV's with the Ultra HD Premium certificate are.

Yes - your HDR display needs to be HDR-10 and/or Dolby Vision and/or HLG compatible to deliver HDR content - I'd take that as a given. At the moment HDR is being tied to UHD - hence UHD Premium sets having HDR.

Quote:After some (little) more thinking I came to the conclusion that we don't need a 'Ultra HD Premium certificate', but a 'Full HD Premium certificate'. Since I should need a 90inch TV in my living room to benefit for the 4K resolution.

Whether there will be Full HD HDR displays (rather than SDR) and whether there will be Full HD HDR content (not the same question) is an interesting one.

AIUI Germany is moving to partial 1080/50p (not 1080/50i or 720/50p) for their next generation OTA standard (DVB-T2, HEVC) and this could support 10 bit, and HDR. In fact I believe one reason they are going this route is to allow for 'better pixels, not more pixels'... So we may see some Full HD HDR stuff there? Would expect that could be HLG (as the SDR backwards compatible signal format for HLG avoids simulcasting and guarantees compatibility)

Quote:And as far as i can understand, that is perfectly possible: Dolby Vision is currently qualified with HEVC and AVC decoders. So I guess HDR10 is also?
That would mean: Smaller file size (far more less pixels), for the exact same image (viewed on a 50inch TV from a 3,5meters (11,5 feet) distance)

Yes - though as I've said - I'm sure you need your AVC/HEVC decoders to work with other subsystems to ensure metadata is properly handled and inserted. (You still need some licensed Dolby Vision functionality in your media player for Dolby Vision I believe - not sure what HDR-10 requires. HLG is different as it is also a valid SDR signal - I'm not sure if it signals HDR presence)
(This post was last modified: 2016-06-21 12:06 by noggin.)
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hansolo Offline
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Post: #18
A very interesting comparative review HDR10 vs Dolby Vision at hdtvtest
Very easy to spot differences, althought it's important to read the disclaimer:
Quote:The following photos (published with permission from Dolby) were taken with a locked-off camera with the exact same manual control settings throughout (aperture, ISO, shutter speed, white balance, etc.). The irony here, of course, is that most cameras don’t have sufficient dynamic range to capture the shadow detail and bright highlights from an HDR TV at the same time, so we had to sacrifice one or the other. We decided to preserve the highlight details in our photos – you’ll just have to take our word that shadow detail on the Dolby Vision shots remained still fully visible in real life.
(This post was last modified: 2016-06-21 13:21 by hansolo.)
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Louike Offline
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Post: #19
Is it even possible yet to rip HDR metadata from a source? (uhd disk or hdr web content)

For now the only way to get those video files to play (mostly demo's from manufacturers) from a connected USB harddisk.
(This post was last modified: 2016-06-29 10:30 by Louike.)
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Zokkel Offline
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Post: #20
Given the fact that Nvidia added HDR with the latest update of their Shield (HDR-10, not Dolby Vision), it is most likely a driver/software thing.
If your hardware support 10-bit output, you're probably safe for HDR (HDR-10). Right?

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Ashkaan Offline
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Post: #21
This is not a driver thing. PowerDVD plays HDR perfectly. Kodi is missing software to do it.
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wesk05 Offline
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Post: #22
(2017-04-30 19:05)Ashkaan Wrote:  This is not a driver thing. PowerDVD plays HDR perfectly. Kodi is missing software to do it.
Looks like @afedchin is working to bring HDR/WCG support to Kodi.

[Image: QOi0vDh.png]
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Ashkaan Offline
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Post: #23
@afedchin is the man!! Can't wait
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Nekromantik Offline
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Post: #24
looks like he is onto something there!
I suspect its only for Windows Kodi.
Hopefully Intel releases HDR driver for Apollo lake GPU and then I can switch from LE to Windows when I want to watch HDR.
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movie78 Offline
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Post: #25
(2017-04-30 19:21)wesk05 Wrote:  
(2017-04-30 19:05)Ashkaan Wrote:  This is not a driver thing. PowerDVD plays HDR perfectly. Kodi is missing software to do it.
Looks like @afedchin is working to bring HDR/WCG support to Kodi.

[Image: QOi0vDh.png]

Can't wait, @afedchin is the MAN!!!!

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nsnhd Offline
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Post: #26
(2017-05-01 13:43)Nekromantik Wrote:  looks like he is onto something there!
I suspect its only for Windows Kodi.
Hopefully Intel releases HDR driver for Apollo lake GPU and then I can switch from LE to Windows when I want to watch HDR.

Is that not hardware related? Somehow Playready 3.0 implemented in chips like Kabylake or Nvidia Pascal Gtx ?
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RockerC Offline
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Post: #27
As always you need hardware AND driver AND software support.

Hardware means that your VPU/GPU + HDMI output chip + cable + television/display.

Driver means manufacturer VPU/GPU device drivers for the operating-system you use.

Software means FFmpeg decoders + Kodi including its renderers on the OS you use.

Trifecta = You will not win here unless you get all those three done in that order.
(This post was last modified: 2017-05-02 10:12 by RockerC.)
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nsnhd Offline
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Post: #28
Television/Display is the most difficult piece because of the current mess of HDR standards, the rest is much easy now thanks to supports from Nvidia, Powerdvd, madVR...
Personally, I'm interested in HDR by 1080p, not 4K.
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Gereral1 Offline
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Photo  RE: 4K / HDR content
Post: #29
With the help of another user we managed to pass the correct hdr dynamic range in kodi pc app with mpc hc in gpu acceleration mode with yuv. Hook to 2 sony hdr tvs we managed to take test samples of hdr media and get it to match the uhd samsung and philipps uhd 4k players with color and increased dynamic range. Once we do some more testing and work out the bugs I will release these files so you can add the hdr on.exe hdr off.exe to activate and deactivate hdr on all your uhd movies and documentaries. Tests have been done on all oled 10bit hdr demos from jazz to walk thru colors to chess demo in hdr mode. Tesrs have been done with rx470 and and kaby lake gpu. You do not need sgx compatible hardware to play or pass thru hdr. Tests have been done with and without hdr meta triggers to confirm proper dynamic range of the source files. Code took approx 30 hrs and added some xml code to show these items in your kodi app. I own all the orginal uhd media in these tests. Me and the beta tester are trying to see if 1080p hdr trigging is possible with 10bit color. The upsample of 1080p is wonderful on bluray and uhd is great. But people want hdr pc with a good collection of movies is going to cost huge amounts of hard drive space. We have managed to inject hdr meta data into source material with hdr triggering. If you run nvidia mpc hc with madvr will trigger hdr with windows 10 creator update. Amd is not compatible with mad vr and mashi has pending bug reports on black screen in hardeare acceleration in hevc 10bit main files. So ive offered hdr via custom presenter filter with directx mode. Testing was done not on rgb 444 rgb 422 but YCbCr422 420 modes.

If you go 444 pc will loose sinc with hd 7.1 audio . And glitching will happen in video. 422 420 has 0 dropped frames and perfect dtshd ma and truhd playback. Still need more testing on audio. The hdr is a perfect match. Nvidiavsheild kodi has been tested to work with hdr triggering but pc has not. The internal kodi app does not support gpu hardware acceleration and will lag on playback of hevc main 10 hdr media. Another thing is a pure hdr file will look dull and washed out.

Testing shows tv adds a set contrast gamma and saturation level to pump up the picture to give you those awsome blacks and bright contrast like looking in the sun. Tested nasa hdr demo and the sun was super bright and the reds were wow but the blscks were pure black.

Anyway stay tooned and check back in the next 2 weeks. The xml code is not hard to add but you will require mpc hc 64bit and lav filters with a gpu compatible of playing hevc main 10. Amd rx 4 5 series cards do this. Kaby lake has onboard hevc support. Not sure if core i7 can keep up on uhd 10bit file. The hdr is not going to add to processing power.

If you want to see more you can head over to redfox forums and check out hi def software section. Screenshots posted there.

My htpc was setup for bluray and lpcm to pass 7.1 to denon smp to full size speakers. Now im working on direct uhd sound to pc to eq in cubase and send out to my livingroom via lpcm thru hdmi. Its advanced stuff and one day Ill teach you guys on my youtube channel. Google my name if you want to see my test equipment.

I am doing this mainly to help my friend but in turn you guys get the benifits. As for me once I release this Im going to stick with uhd hardware player and sound being controled via pc. There are audio devices that cost 1000 bucks to add room correction and eq to sound. Im going to run locm uhd to pc to my studio 8 channel card and run it thru eq with sound meters and 7.1 test tones in my living room to set levels on each speaker at ref. Volume. My samsung uhd decodes dtshd master and truhd and passes it over hdmi. Using lpcm hdmi decoder I beeakout the 8 audio tracks, eq them the set freq response according to my room and send the 8 channels out to the amp.

If you own hdmi amp this is pointless. If you want to stack amps and run stereo smp pairs then this is for you. Most smps have room correction built in. Im breaking out of the confined smp and unleashing a system to run as much power and if I need dtsx atamos ill look at a pre amp.
I run 7 75w channels and 400w sub. Very clear powerful system. Run all refrence klipsch speakers and sony 65 inch xbr hdr tv. My pc is 8 years old so uhd is easily possible on 8 year old pc! And 3 x4 965 processor with 8gig of ram . Pci e is shared 8 gig yo rx470 video card and my winderful revi 110 gig pcie 4x ssd. This thing has 500 mb a sec read and write! Crazy. Win 10 is on kingston ssd. Have 8 terr bytes of internal hhd and 8 external backup . 1 to 1 system have 4t cloud server as well. Id say about 15thos eorth of stuff in my htpc system. I might go uhd 4k but in 1080p to get more on pc. Honestly uhd tests at 1080p from 6 feet back its hard to tell. Put 1080p in hevc thr files are 6 8 gig. Older lcd tvs from 2014 on can have hdr effect added to push then panels light levels up or close to hdr levels. Hdr on exe will work on older panels . The only downside is bt2020 color. If you own 4k tv that can do bt2020 and hanfle 10bit (a must or you will see color banding) then you might want yo watch this project close.

Got to go........check back ftoday or latest next week.
(This post was last modified: 2017-05-10 04:12 by Gereral1.)
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brazen1 Offline
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Post: #30
Is this software (CPU) or hardware (GPU) capable (NVidia in particular)? Also is it aimed at 1080p displays and/or 2160p displays?

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