[nsnhd]

Personally, I see no alternative facts. Put it all on the table and let users decide. I am trying everything from my own experience, drawing my own conclusions and comparisons. I don't consider trying every method crazy and I don't prefer any one thing at this time since I'm still exploring what's out there. Not sure why you have to attack? I'm preparing for when I can rip my own UHD HDR when and if possible. In the mean time, I have test files to work with and know I will have plenty of methods for playback when the time comes having tried them all succesfully:

Windows Movie and TV app using Windows HDR.
PowerDVD with and without Windows HDR.
MPC HC/BE with and without Windows HDR including many versatile implementations.
Looking forward to Kodi internal player and interested in seamless external integration until then. Should Kodi internal player be inferior, I'll have other choices prepared. No user interaction is of interest to me. I like complete automation. So far I think I've narrowed that down to two. 3DLUT injection and PowerDVD. The latter requires older Nvidia drivers though and until the standard gets a grip, traction is going to change so I don't rule anything out until the fat lady sings.

I suspect many are trying HDR test files and the first thing they see is a dull washed out picture and thinking wtf is this? As much as you consider this a technical forum, many non-techies come here looking for answers. Some want highly advanced answers with technical procedures to produce the best possible outcome backed my multitudes of 'this is the best way'. That may or may not involve money (one quick deciding factor) for sheeple. Another may involve the shear learning curve that must be adhered for an outcome that perhaps a non-techie doesn't want to learn. (another quick deciding factor sheeple don't tend to migrate towards). A method such as increasing saturation and contrast via a player and/or panel will produce quick satisfaction - something a lot of sheeple would grasp because they aren't looking for the greatest. They just want a watchable picture to crack a beer open to. Figuring out how to rip a title was enough achievement and won't be burdened with playback too. To them, it is the greatest. For those reasons, ALL methods are welcomed in my book. While one is your opinion of correct, it won't be correct for everyone. Other methods are not alternative facts like a headline. They are choices unique users make for themselves. Those decisions are based on how they choose to interpret what is presented to them and what fits them best. This isn't a right or wrong issue and taking a hardline stance in the name of everyone is counter productive. Let's compare notes here and stop getting sidetracked. Stop attacking people. This isn't a dictatorship. This isn't a place to belittle people and fuel bickering. Everyone and everything is of value to others even if it isn't to you. Go read your 1st 3 posts in this resurrected thread. You claim you're not particularly hostile? Your last post is hostile too. No hostility intended from part in any of this and my deepest respect and forgiveness continues...... so that we all might continue exchanging.

Yeah, mpc-hc method is the only one for me until I get a new vga card. All methods should be welcomed for different situations.

I would love to use madvr and try silo luts but AMD RX cannot use madvr. Bug pending to mashi. Been a bug for months. Guess it's my way for AMD users until mashi fixes HDR main 10 bug

Silo's 3dluts seem good but useless for me atm because of the not powerful enough hardware I got to run madVR. Until I go out and buy a vga card, your method is still my choice. I don't play game and don't have any 4k display yet, that makes a little difficult to select which vga card I should get.

[hansolo]

TV manufactures admitted that all panels from 2014 on can show 30-40 percent more dynamic range. Now they can unlock their TVs with HDR content. If my HDR TV looks awesome I can imagine a computer monitor should explode with dynamic range as well.

Link please? With scientific tests?
I doubt an 8 bit panel (like most SDR TV) without a good FRC algorithm will have magically more dynamic range.

Im done helping out htpc users. This is accurate. A properly calibrated tv in hdr is boring. Added saturation in post and pumped up sells hdr to uneducated public.

So a scientific method for calibrating is boring and is for uneducated public. Nice one...

How on earth is a thread about HDR so emotional and hostile...? o____o

Distort video by adjusting the brightness/contrast/saturation of the source material and call the revolutionary concept as XDR. That's what this is about. I can't agree with that at all. I even have problems with madshi's madVR algorithm for HDR processing. HDR10 implementation was conceptualized as a function of the display.

Didn't look a lot like the ,,work" from doom9 forum? Same SDR magically converted to HDR on SDR TV.
We will see more like this, on h264 there were also many altered encoded files which claims were better than original. But then there were many bad bluray masters, I think that now somehow we will see lower quality variance from original masters.

How on earth is a thread about HDR so emotional and hostile...? o____o

Because some habitually capitalize at the expense of sheeple and anyone who presents alternative avenues, especially free ones, are the enemy and therefore chastised.

wesk05 and soli were very decent in responses, you were not. Who is sheeple? Maybe if I don't take ,,shop mode" from my TV as a HDR loolalike, I am a sheeple?
Of course, General1 is welcome to tell his opinion but not all will have to agree with him.

[Gereral1]

In video editing hdr material has been mastered with a greater range of contrast and brightness. Its the tvs job to ADD it to the video. Hdr is a reversed tech compared to bluray. A monitor is limited to its default contrast and brighness controls. What mpc is doing in tapping into that higher dynamic range of hdr material by going beyond rec709 color bars calibration. Only pure dull hdr material can work Im not going to share what uhd sources I used but get yourself some uhd material. Try mpc method and switch to bt2020 color on your tv. Adjust the sliders. Switch to your hdr tv and uhd player. Compare. They match! I go by my eyes and the science behind all this nits, dynamic range blah blah means nothing to me. What your eyes see is.

Whats exciting is non hdr tvs can now view 4k uhd by pushing their panels past the capped controls on tvs and monitors to get into the dynamic range of uhd mastered material. The pop factor or hdr factor will vary from oled to lcd to other types of panels. Computer monitors will show more too. Have to try it with hdr tv with uhd source and the same source on hdr tv not in hdr mode and uhd source. They are both the same. I cannot ecplain this any clearer.

This is a tool or idea to sllow 4k material to play on older panels. If course the hdr tv is going to blow the lcd tv out of the water. You can watch thr bluray upscaled to 4k or eatch uhd 4k and unlock the same color and levels but see more detail in the darks and brights now.

[Soli]

Personally, I see no alternative facts. Put it all on the table and let users decide. I am trying everything from my own experience, drawing my own conclusions and comparisons. I don't consider trying every method crazy and I don't prefer any one thing at this time since I'm still exploring what's out there. Not sure why you have to attack? I'm preparing for when I can rip my own UHD HDR when and if possible. In the mean time, I have test files to work with and know I will have plenty of methods for playback when the time comes having tried them all succesfully:

Windows Movie and TV app using Windows HDR.
PowerDVD with and without Windows HDR.
MPC HC/BE with and without Windows HDR including many versatile implementations.
Looking forward to Kodi internal player and interested in seamless external integration until then. Should Kodi internal player be inferior, I'll have other choices prepared. No user interaction is of interest to me. I like complete automation. So far I think I've narrowed that down to two. 3DLUT injection and PowerDVD. The latter requires older Nvidia drivers though and until the standard gets a grip, traction is going to change so I don't rule anything out until the fat lady sings.

I suspect many are trying HDR test files and the first thing they see is a dull washed out picture and thinking wtf is this? As much as you consider this a technical forum, many non-techies come here looking for answers. Some want highly advanced answers with technical procedures to produce the best possible outcome backed my multitudes of 'this is the best way'. That may or may not involve money (one quick deciding factor) for sheeple. Another may involve the shear learning curve that must be adhered for an outcome that perhaps a non-techie doesn't want to learn. (another quick deciding factor sheeple don't tend to migrate towards). A method such as increasing saturation and contrast via a player and/or panel will produce quick satisfaction - something a lot of sheeple would grasp because they aren't looking for the greatest. They just want a watchable picture to crack a beer open to. Figuring out how to rip a title was enough achievement and won't be burdened with playback too. To them, it is the greatest. For those reasons, ALL methods are welcomed in my book. While one is your opinion of correct, it won't be correct for everyone. Other methods are not alternative facts like a headline. They are choices unique users make for themselves. Those decisions are based on how they choose to interpret what is presented to them and what fits them best. This isn't a right or wrong issue and taking a hardline stance in the name of everyone is counter productive. Let's compare notes here and stop getting sidetracked. Stop attacking people. This isn't a dictatorship. This isn't a place to belittle people and fuel bickering. Everyone and everything is of value to others even if it isn't to you. Go read your 1st 3 posts in this resurrected thread. You claim you're not particularly hostile? Your last post is hostile too. No hostility intended from part in any of this and my deepest respect and forgiveness continues...... so that we all might continue exchanging.

I don't think my first 3 posts were that bad. I knew from the get-go what was claimed couldn't be done and worst case scenario it could have been some elaborate hoax/virus/trojan. I think it was right of me to warn other users about this.
When he finally included the bat files, I took a look at them and the comments of my post was based on the exact content of those files. I knew it was bogus before I looked at them, but now I had definitive proof that it didn't walk the walk, so to speak. And speak I did.

Another user used these settings to watch bt.2020 HDR on his bt.709(ish) SDR display. I told him to dream on. Its true I don't aim for a future diplomatic career by any means, but then again I was only telling him to do keep on doing what he already was doing (although underlying reason was to wake him up). We are not walking on on eggshells here. We are in a discussion forum. We discuss, and we should be able discuss freely without needing to sugarcoat every reply. And without the inevitable user proclaiming "uh oh why is it so hostile now?", or "uh oh I'm done helping htpc users", "I'm done with this forum", "please delete my posts", "This project really bothers soli. Funny how he defends hdr . Almost like getting a 8===D", and last but not least some far fetched conspiracy theory along the lines of "Because some habitually capitalize at the expense of sheeple and anyone who presents alternative avenues, especially free ones, are the enemy and therefore chastised." I mean, really? Does any of this have any remote relevance with the subject?

Anyways, I don't intend to dwell on this or other semantics that you touch upon in your post. Bygones.

part1, going from bt.2020 HDR to bt.709.: It's wrong to say the dull and washed out picture is because of HDR. It's mainly because of the much bigger color gamut. The raw R'G'B' numbers in a bt.2020 gamut will correspond to much lesser saturated colors in bt.709. The primary colors are at an altogether coordinates in the CIE diagram than before, the primary vector lines are different, and the amount the coordinates have changed is wildly different. You can't fix this with adjusting saturation contrast, brightness and hue that are common for all primaries. You will end up clipping the signal digitally, and still the picture won't resemble anything what it's supposed to look. The sooner everyone realizes this, the better. Period.


part2, going from bt.2020 HDR to bt.2020 NON SDR: This is what mr G originally talked about in his first posts.
If you a) have a GPU that isn't able to inject HDR metadata, you were supposed to manually set your TV to bt.2020 color gamut. Already this disqualifies a lot of people since a lot of people since only some brands lets you set this manually. Anyways let's play along with this:

So why is there some "need" to adjust contrast, brightness, saturation when you can set bt.2020 color gamut manually ? Because the transfer function of HDR and SDR is wildly different. Even if the TV is set manually to bt.2020 color gamut it expects the signal to be SDR unless the metadata suggests otherwise. (on Panasonic you can override both transfer function and color gamut, but most displays won't let you) For instance, HDR would look too dark in this mode. That's why he probably upped brightness a bit, while the contrast/saturation is probably some further half-assed (sorry, but that wording is a non hostile but accurate description /sugarcoat) way of trying to both trying correct the transfer function and tone map. (which is, surprise, impossible to do this way) Lastly I don't think you can get the really bright peak highlights while the a HDR display is in SDR mode, even if you turn up all the relevant controls, and it doesn't do any proper tonemapping (in truth it not supposed to when it's in SDR mode). In sum, it's f..... up is what it is (meant in a very non hostile, although very accurate, way)

I can go on, but I don't need to. I already feel stupid for even writing this post. Apparantly I need to get technical and "prove" that using MPC-HC controls to get HDR (or "XDR")" is bogus. It's like pointing out the pink elephant in the room.

Just to be clear. This post is very very non hostile, no hostility intended, and respect to everyone

[Soli]

Silo's 3dluts seem good but useless for me atm because of the not powerful enough hardware I got to run madVR. Until I go out and buy a vga card, your method is still my choice. I don't play game and don't have any 4k display yet, that makes a little difficult to select which vga card I should get.

No, it's not. Go buy the newly released Nvidia GTX 1030. It can even be found fanless and it's really cheap. It's the definitive GPU card for old-school HTPC users, for the time being. It's also powerful enough to do some light gaming on. Supports HDR passthrough, madVR, 4K HEVC GPU decoding.

[wesk05]

@Soli: It is very hard to explain what is wrong with this "XDR" thingy when the "inventor" doesn't believe in standards. Early on in this discussion, the answer that I got for my question about EETF was enough for me to figure out who I was dealing with.

When I see a statement like this, I really don't know what to say

Whats exciting is non hdr tvs can now view 4k uhd by pushing their panels past the capped controls on tvs and monitors to get into the dynamic range of uhd mastered material.

[Gereral1]

Kodi HDR comes out of beta today. XDR ver 1.0.0.3 written in VB and added support tof mpc hc and mpc be versions 64bit.
As for the statement on the hdr what I meant is a normal monitor shows 80nits. Using mpc controls breakout and pushes these monitors up to 300nits. Its not hdr but a hell of a lot better than 0. As for my hdr tv with this app I do see duplicate of my uhd player material. So my tv has a higher nit value that can display the hdr. I tested b t709 and found adding 10 points tint allows users who do not own hdr tvs to get very close to the skin tones of a tv enabled with bt2020 on hdr tvs. Problem is without the tint added the uhd material looks color dull because its looking to be played in bt2020. That dull color comes alive at 0 tint and looks perfect. This si not pure science here. This is eye balling the original uhd content on uhd player with hdr tv then switching to bt709 and watching on a non hdr tv. This will give guys with older equipment more options. It might not be hdr but it looks pretty good.

Looking to create a math formula to convert the hdr metadata is uhd files to values that can be set in mpc. This program will create a file called xdr.cal that will be placed in your movie folder. Just like xml when getting directors and actors and stuff. XDR turned on will look if this file is present and load the values then launch the players. simple but powerful concept to automate custom calibrations per uhd movie.

The file link is under that kodi hdr project video on youtube. Some forums do not allow downloadable links so I respect this policy.

[Gereral1]

Just thought I would let kodi users know I will be imbedding nvidia sdk hdr trigger to turn on hdr and off as the movie exits automatically in mpchc with madvr. This trigger will be set in hdr.cal file with the non hdr tags so if user sets the tag it will switch hdr on off for nvidia users. Ive coded a space for this switching. Ver 2.0.0.0 will introduce xdr.cal. the next version will have real hdr switching!

[brazen1]

Is D/L still at your youtube channel? I only see Ver1.0.0.3. When you write real hdr switching, is this for the actual W10 HDR and advanced color switch?

[Gereral1]

Is D/L still at your youtube channel? I only see Ver1.0.0.3. When you write real hdr switching, is this for the actual W10 HDR and advanced color switch?

Yes it will pass real hdr10 to madvr passthru with nvida automatic and switch off after player is shut off. The script already exists to do this. Im just placing in xdr.cal a setting to turn on and off. Very simple code. I do not own nvidia so I will need beta testers. Ver 2.0.0.0 will introduce xdr.cal files. All nvidia usr has to do is add an hdr.cal file to the hdr movie directory and my mpchcfn.exe will detect hdr trigger in that .cal file and activate your tv in hdr mode. I will still support non hdr tvs with hdr cal but if this tag is set it will overtake the xdr adjustments and activate the script to turn on off. Nvidia sdk has this. I will release 2.0.0.1 with hdr activation. Let me get the program and graphics laid out then I will include the .dll for this switching in ver 2.0.0.1

Eventually I want full support for amd and nvidia.

This is my goal.

Release xdr 2.0.0.0 with xdr.cal automation mpchc mpcbe 64bit versions
Then release 32bit version
Then add 2.0.0.1 hdr switching for nvidia to pass real hdr metadata
Then add amd hdr switching 2.0.0.2

After that this app will be complete
Already 36 hrs time in coding. (Takes alot of code)

I love uhd and dtsx and atmos disks. Just thought id add to the community a way to automate this with kodi.
If this is done right hdr automatation will available with guys who like to use mpchc or mpcbe with madvr hdr passthru to hdr tv. Anyway im on redfox talking about this too. I have 2 other users who are beta testing with captured uhd material with hdr metatags added. Uhd is still new to pc so will see where this goes..... uhd material samples look great with adjusting the levels but people want hdr tv to take metadata settings. Madvr can already do this according to one of my beta testers. He is mad that he has to switch windows tab manually to do hdr. Xdr will switch on off this tab without user interaction thus the mpchcfn.exe or mpcbefn.exe. mpchcfn.exe will take its settings from xdrconfig.exe which will be released ver2.0.0.0 I could spend hrs explaining this but I dont have time.

It will be simple to use. Launch xdrconfig set paths to players and kodi. Turn on off xdrdesktop. Set a default player. Close. Load xdrcal.exe press activate button. Adjust settings close player. Hdrcal ask is hdrmeta data present. Yes will set activation tag in xdr.cal no with set 0 and set values for contrast brightness hue and saturation. There must be a movie and xdr.cal file in each movie folder. No hdr.cal no switching.....

If hdr flag is set it will take 1st priority and activate nvidia hdr hdmi tv. When the player shuts down it will shut off hdr.

[Soli]

This is madness.

You can already tell madVR to passthrough HDR automatically, it's a set-it-and-forget-it one-time configuration setting, and it can use either the Nvdia API or Windows10 Creators Update API.

[Gereral1]

This is madness.

You can already tell madVR to passthrough HDR automatically, it's a set-it-and-forget-it one-time configuration setting, and it can use either the Nvdia API or Windows10 Creators Update API.

I know 0 about the NVidia way madvr uses its script. I thought users still have to slide the hdr tab in windows to on so it requires this step. Maybe you do not need to do this anymore... so if you set api windwos 10 like I do with amd my screen goes really dim. do you have to do this too? or does your system switch modes auto

This is the code

NV_HDR_COLOR_DATA hdrColorData = {};

memset(&hdrColorData, 0, sizeof(hdrColorData));

hdrColorData.version = NV_HDR_COLOR_DATA_VER;
hdrColorData.cmd = NV_HDR_CMD_SET;
hdrColorData.static_metadata_descriptor_id = NV_STATIC_METADATA_TYPE_1;
hdrColorData.hdrMode = enableHDR ? NV_HDR_MODE_UHDA : NV_HDR_MODE_OFF;
hdrColorData.static_metadata_descriptor_id = NV_STATIC_METADATA_TYPE_1;

NvAPI_Disp_HdrColorControl( displayId, &hdrColorData);
so I guess you guys have auto done this so you can select a video file in kodi and it will turn hdr on?

If so I wont waste my time creating this addon

[brazen1]

Nvidia. Yes, madVR will passthrough HDR and play it with MPC players just fine as do other players. I have to turn on HDR switch in Windows manually though. The Nvidia API (for pictures, not video) to switch on HDR eludes me? How do you switch it on and play a title? Currently I am using 3D LUT converting to SDR. There is no need to turn on Windows HDR. The downside is it doesn't increase contrast or backlight in the panel automatically like when forcing HDR with the Windows HDR switch. You could calibrate the panel with maxed contrast and backlight but this blows the calibration for anything non-hdr. The same is true for other players. So it comes down to manually adjusting the panel or physically turning HDR switch on/off in Windows or increasing player color controls as Gereral1 has done - automated.

Ideally, a hotkey or code to engage Windows HDR switch on/off is the best route. It could be triggered with tagging either in file naming or a file placed next to title (I assume this is what the xdr.cal file is). Something a .bat or .exe friendly would open up worlds of possibilities.

Tried your code using .exe extension. I get a Windows prompt 'This app can't run on your PC, to find a version for your PC check with the software publisher'.

Gereral1 does not seem to be gearing up only for non-hdr displays by increasing player color controls or 2160p excluding 1080p. He's introducing other things of interest for those of us with HDR hardware too. The bad attitude isn't going to encourage him. Perhaps in all your wisdom you could try working with him instead of telling him his contributions are madness.

I don't know diddly about any of this. I'm just a user trying. When I learn, I will teach others. You seem very on top of the game. Why don't you teach us? You write the Nvdia API or Windows10 Creators Update API is a one time config setting as if everything HDR and non-hdr is automated, adjusted, set and forget. Maybe it is? Remember, I'm an idiot and I respect your knowledge. Maybe you could share exactly how you've accomplished what appears to be impossible at this time. Perhaps I'm dumber than I think and completely missed the boat you're on. I'd like to sail too. Help me.

The goal is to playback UHD HDR complete file structure and not just an mkv once we can rip but there are test files until then.
Playback using any reasonable PC and not just the slim offerings with SGX bios, special CPU's, and all the other constricting requirements.
Use Nvidia GTX 960 4GB or better x265 hardware decoding compatible with Windows 10 CU and fully capable 4k HDR display and AVR HDR passthrough.
PowerDVD, Kodi videoplayer, MPC/madVR, etc. friendly.
HDR and non-hdr (AUTO) trigger anything in the library for correct playback with no interaction. I want to retain Windows desktop and h.264 1080p calibration upscaled to 2160p. When my display goes into HDR mode, I want that separate calibration to retain also unless the metadata determines and sets the calibration. I can live with 4:2:2 permanently instead of 4:4:4 if need be since I don't think the switch can be automated for hdr to non-hdr. (Nvidia default color setting) but then everything non-hdr would need to be calibrated at 16-235 instead of 0-255.

Please correct me where needed. I'm sure there's plenty.

[Gereral1]

Thats what im trying to eventually do. Offer a trigger value in hdr.cal if program detects it switch hdr tab on pass the filename %1 to mpchcfn.exe and have ny program lauch mpchc fullscreen and stay on in background . Once the player is off it will turn hdr tab off. So this is my final goal with hdr.cal files.

[Gereral1]

As for 1.0.0.3 i zipped up the exe. I need to use deploy option in vb. Ill fix this and release 1.0.0.4 .

Overlooked this as i used the debug .exe. guess you have to deploy the project to share. Because .exe worked on my windows 10pc guess some files vb adds get it to work on other pcs.