Linux Switch from old PPA to new Snap package for Ubuntu 16.04 and onwards?
#1
Hi,

Canonical has just announced that Snap packages will be available starting from Ubuntu 16.04 LTS Xenial Xerus, see:

http://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/04/13/sn...sic-ubuntu
https://youtu.be/lHO8j8uo5Z4

Currently KODI is only providing a PPA for Ubuntu:

http://kodi.wiki/view/HOW-TO:Install_Kod...tributions

Could you please switch from the old PPA to a Snap package for Ubuntu 16.04 and onwards?

Regards
#2
If you open the Software, select Video, select All, you'll see that Kodi is already there.

Snaps are just to make it easier, PPA's and command line will still be an option though.

Image
#3
(2016-04-17, 15:06)snafu21 Wrote: If you open the Software, select Video, select All, you'll see that Kodi is already there.

Yes, an old version of KODI...

The packages in the Ubuntu repository usually are not being updated after release. If they are being updated, it's usually just security updates.

That's why there were PPAs in the past.

But PPAs suck, because of dependencies and because you need several PPAs for several releases of Ubuntu and so on...

The new Snap package format solves all of those problems.

Maybe you should actually read the article and watch the video I had posted:

http://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/04/13/sn...sic-ubuntu
https://youtu.be/lHO8j8uo5Z4

Regards
#4
Our stable ppa always contains the stable version. We package externally anyways - so for kodi it makes not much of a difference.
First decide what functions / features you expect from a system. Then decide for the hardware. Don't waste your money on crap.
#5
(2016-04-17, 18:44)fritsch Wrote: Our stable ppa always contains the stable version. We package externally anyways - so for kodi it makes not much of a difference.

Yes, your PPA contains the latest stable version.

But the Ubuntu repository does not, see for yourself:

http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywor...ection=all

Whitin each Ubuntu release development cycle, Canonical syncs (imports) packages from what is available in Debian testing and Debian unstable up to a certain point in time (which is called "Debian Import Freeze").

The Ubuntu packages then pretty much go into a frozen state and are no longer being updated throughout the lifecyle of the Ubuntu release besides security updates (with some exceptions like Firefox for example).

So, if you want updated software, you usually need to wait until the next Ubuntu release and update to the next Ubuntu release.

That is why there are PPAs, so that one can get updated software through PPAs.

But PPAs are bad for several reasons (which are all explained in the video I've posted by the way).

(2016-04-17, 18:44)fritsch Wrote: We package externally anyways - so for kodi it makes not much of a difference.

Wrong. Of course switching to Snap packages would make a huge difference.

With Snap packages you can provide one Snap package for several Ubuntu versions and release it through Ubuntu Software Center.

Snap packages contain all the dependencies required for the application to run. So it does no longer matter if the operating system provides the dependencies.

Seriously, Snap packages are the best thing that happened to Linux in years.

With Snap packages one must no longer deal with outdated repositories or rolling-release distributions to get updated software.

No offense, but, are you sure you understand what's the difference between PPAs and Snap packages?

KODI should definitely switch from PPAs to a Snap package and distribute it through the Ubuntu Software Center for Ubuntu 16.04 and onwards.
#6
(2016-04-17, 22:26)qp9013625 Wrote: KODI should definitely switch from PPAs to a Snap package and distribute it through the Ubuntu Software Center for Ubuntu 16.04 and onwards.

So why don't YOU provide all the necessary scripts and stuff to create Kodi snap package?

There are lots of people requesting features, but there are only a few devs who can implement them.

Show Us the way ...
#7
(2016-04-17, 22:33)asavah Wrote:
(2016-04-17, 22:26)qp9013625 Wrote: KODI should definitely switch from PPAs to a Snap package and distribute it through the Ubuntu Software Center for Ubuntu 16.04 and onwards.

So why don't YOU provide all the necessary scripts and stuff to create Kodi snap package?

There are lots of people requesting features, but there are only a few devs who can implement them.

Show Us the way ...
Big words and demands and little action most likely.
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#8
(2016-04-17, 22:33)asavah Wrote: Show Us the way ...

If you would have read the article I had posted and would have watched the video I had posted, you would know that Canonical will hold a "Snappy Clinic" on Tuesday 26 April 15:00 UTC on ubuntuonair.com, where there will be guidance for developers.

Additionally there's also the snappy-app-devel mailing list.

So, I'd suggest you attend those to be shown the way.
#9
I suggest you attend, do the work, test it and once done share it. That's how opensource works
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#10
(2016-04-17, 23:02)Martijn Wrote: I suggest you attend, do the work, test it and once done share it. That's how opensource works

Yeah, that's a really nice idea. Te tell it in Kennedy's words:

John F. Kennedy Wrote:And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
First decide what functions / features you expect from a system. Then decide for the hardware. Don't waste your money on crap.
#11
Ah, okay, I see, so you guys would rather continue fiddling around with several PPAs and dependecies for several Ubuntu releases rather than pro-actively making your life and the life of your users easier (and more secure) with Snap packages.

Interesting.

Well, so be it then.
#12
I took the time to watch your video ... you should watch it again, especially minute 20 to 37 and think about the permissions system vs direct hardware / framebuffer / clock access (first point) and second point in special regard to nvidia, which requires an xserver running in root mode.

And something to add: We exactly have one ppa, which is build from the very same "debian" directory. The only thing that sucks sometime is that LTS grow old and don't receive newer packages, we might need as dependencies, but as you see in minute 10 of the video, you also have to add those dependencies to your snap image. At the end you receive a very large container, made runnable for different versions ...

Here: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/build-apps/ <- read the article about parts ... and dependencies.

After having watched the video, having read the developer's howto. I think, you don't have a single idea of when snap packages make sense ...

Posts merged by request of fritsch- DarrenHill
First decide what functions / features you expect from a system. Then decide for the hardware. Don't waste your money on crap.
#13
(2016-04-17, 23:26)fritsch Wrote: I took the time to watch your video ... you should watch it again, especially minute 20 to 37 and think about the permissions system vs direct hardware / framebuffer / clock access (first point) and second point in special regard to nvidia, which requires an xserver running in root mode.

And? What's your point?

Besides, why would running an xorg-server running in root mode be a problem?

As far as I understand from the video, Snaps do not actually run in the base operating system. They are utilizing a separate Ubuntu in the form of Snappy Ubuntu Core.

So, even though I am not sure, I would assume/guess, that it would be possible to run an xorg-server inside the Snap (inside Snappy Ubuntu Core) as root.

(2016-04-17, 23:37)fritsch Wrote: After having watched the video, having read the developer's howto. I think, you don't have a single idea of when snap packages make sense ...

Yet you fail to mention a definitive reason where or why Snaps would not make sense.

AFAICT from the video, Snaps always make more sense than PPAs.
#14
Heaven forbid having packages that contain all the dependencies. That would turn Linux into windows. Yuk.
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#15
(2016-04-17, 23:53)qp9013625 Wrote:
(2016-04-17, 23:26)fritsch Wrote: I took the time to watch your video ... you should watch it again, especially minute 20 to 37 and think about the permissions system vs direct hardware / framebuffer / clock access (first point) and second point in special regard to nvidia, which requires an xserver running in root mode.

And? What's your point?

Besides, why would running an xorg-server running in root mode be a problem?

As far as I understand from the video, Snaps do not actually run in the base operating system. They are utilizing a separate Ubuntu in the form of Snappy Ubuntu Core.

So, even though I am not sure, I would assume/guess, that it would be possible to run an xorg-server inside the Snap (inside Snappy Ubuntu Core) as root.

(2016-04-17, 23:37)fritsch Wrote: After having watched the video, having read the developer's howto. I think, you don't have a single idea of when snap packages make sense ...

Yet you fail to mention a definitive reason where or why Snaps would not make sense.

AFAICT from the video, Snaps always make more sense than PPAs.

Snap packages are much larger as they ship the dependencies themselves. A container is overhead for an application like kodi. Kodi on ARM needs to run on the framebuffer directly, so using it from a snap container is not feasible. As 15.10 does not support snap, we need to do additional work for both ppa and snap to support all available Ubuntu version, back to 14.04. When kodi starts to depend on newer features (mesa / whatever) which is not covered by the current snap dependency base, we need to package all that stuff alone, same we do with the ppa.

So again: there is not a single reason why we should transition kodi to snap right now. If snap is that superior as _you_ (and nobody else) suggests, then do the transition and present this superior package with a running kodi.
First decide what functions / features you expect from a system. Then decide for the hardware. Don't waste your money on crap.



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