Lightpack 2 Kickstarter - Discussion

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ianuk2005 Offline
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Post: #31
(2016-07-05 13:32)Stereodude Wrote:  What about frame packed 3D? I think it would have problems with TAB/SBS 3D...

Good point, it could work by analysing say 1/2 the screen for SBS, whether they have accounted for this automatically, have some sort of option to select or just don't support it idk.

Also update, looks like they may be supporting 4k:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/woo...ts/1617978
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Lunatixz Offline
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Post: #32
(2016-07-05 18:00)ianuk2005 Wrote:  Also update, looks like they may be supporting 4k:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/woo...ts/1617978

Yes, but for a ridiculous price... Not sure what High end market they are trying to appeal to.

IMO there are way too many cheaper alternatives.
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bry Offline
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Post: #33
(2016-07-12 22:17)Lunatixz Wrote:  
(2016-07-05 18:00)ianuk2005 Wrote:  Also update, looks like they may be supporting 4k:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/woo...ts/1617978

Yes, but for a ridiculous price... Not sure what High end market they are trying to appeal to.

IMO there are way too many cheaper alternatives.

what is a way cheaper alternative that hits all the bullet points that the lightpack2 hits?
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Lunatixz Offline
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Post: #34
(2016-07-13 00:28)bry- Wrote:  
(2016-07-12 22:17)Lunatixz Wrote:  
(2016-07-05 18:00)ianuk2005 Wrote:  Also update, looks like they may be supporting 4k:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/woo...ts/1617978

Yes, but for a ridiculous price... Not sure what High end market they are trying to appeal to.

IMO there are way too many cheaper alternatives.

what is a way cheaper alternative that hits all the bullet points that the lightpack2 hits?

diy project's...

You can't justify those prices, 500+ for UHD model!! that's about the going rate for a low model 4k TV!.

IMO most kickstarter projects price themselves out of success.
(This post was last modified: 2016-07-13 02:02 by Lunatixz.)
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bry Offline
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Post: #35
You missed the major bullet point. It's set it and forget it. Thats why people want the lightpack it's prepackaged and working. Not diy

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Lunatixz Offline
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Post: #36
(2016-07-13 02:05)bry- Wrote:  You missed the major bullet point. It's set it and forget it. Thats why people want the lightpack it's prepackaged and working. Not diy

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It's only my opinion... you don't have to agree Wink
The price is set way to high... I'm sure someone swimming in dough won't mind dropping 500 bucks on 60 dollars worth of hardware.

BTW if this was a unique project idea, I'd probably overlook the price... but half of these ambilight projects are reworks of freely published circuit diagrams and source code.
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timstephens24 Offline
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Post: #37
$259 for the UHD set, not $500. $259 for $60 worth of hardware and not having to DIY and deal with it doesn't seem too high to me. I might actually get it.

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Lunatixz Offline
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Post: #38
(2016-07-13 02:22)timstephens24 Wrote:  $259 for the UHD set, not $500. $259 for $60 worth of hardware and not having to DIY and deal with it doesn't seem too high to me. I might actually get it.

Correct... lowest UHD package is 250. I tend to exaggerate my point. Everyone has different skill sets and different ideas of value.

BTW great avatar, that's my favorite episode from Archer.
(This post was last modified: 2016-07-13 02:32 by Lunatixz.)
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timstephens24 Offline
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Post: #39
Honestly I've left my current backlight on just white because I don't want to DIY anymore.

Archer and breast cancer... They haven't topped that yet lol.

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ianuk2005 Offline
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Post: #40
Have to admit the extra $100 for 4k support is high and going to put some users off. With decoding 4k being so cheap, you can literally do it with commercial hardware for <$40 it feels like they haven't just added on the extra cost. I, and i'm assuming others were expecting it to be moved into the standard model at the same price point.
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RockerC Offline
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Post: #41
(2016-07-13 02:22)timstephens24 Wrote:  $259 for the UHD set, not $500. $259 for $60 worth of hardware and not having to DIY and deal with it doesn't seem too high to me. I might actually get it.
(2016-07-12 22:17)Lunatixz Wrote:  Yes, but for a ridiculous price... Not sure what High end market they are trying to appeal to.

IMO there are way too many cheaper alternatives.
You guys are still comparing apples and oranges in my opinion.

Your average DIY project for Kodi run in a PC or Raspberry Pi does not support any HDMI sources at all, instead they need to run a software on the same computer to capture the rendering.

It is much more than $60 dollars’ worth of hardware if you want to have ambilight from other HDMI sources as you need at least need a HDMI-matrix switch that supports 4K @ 60 fps (or a HDMI-splitter + a HDMI-switch), and a hardware HDMI video capture device that also supports 4K @ 60 fps just to begin to compare, and just those two alone are going to cost more than $200 put together. Then you really also need to include the price of a computer that can capture 4K @ 60 to analyze the picture and convert to data for the LED strip, and there a Raspberry Pi will not be enough for 4K @ 60 fps. And if you want to capture HDCP encrypted videos then all your equipment need to support that as well.

So, you first have to understand cannot compare this with a DIY project where you only run Kodi and have a LED-strip connected to a Raspberry Pi or PC with an Arduino. As the point with Lightpack 2 and similar solutions like DreamScreen is that they support HDMI input and multiple HDMI inputs, such as multiple video game systems. With a solution like Lightpack 2 and DreamScreen you can connect multiple HDMI sources such as an Xbox One, a PlayStation 4, a Chromecast, or Blu-ray Disc player, as well as a device running Kodi, and have all connected all the time, as the Lightpack 2 as an integrated HDMI switch and DreamScreen support you connecting any HDMI switch.

While you can achieve input from any HDMI source with some DIY projects too, it requires many more parts and the solution gets much more complex which is going to cost you a lot more than $60 dollars, especially if you also want support input from any 4K sources @ 60 fps. Not something your average DIY:er puts together, and even if you do you will not be saving a lot of money of doing this yourself if you want a solution that supports 4K @ 60 fps.

To compare with Lightpack 2 UHD solution your DIY project need components like:
  • 4 x 2 HDMI-matrix switch that supports 4K @ 60 (or a HDMI-splitter + a HDMI-switch that both supports 4K @ 60 could do the same job as a
  • HDMI video capture device that support capturing 4K @ 60 fps encrypted with HDCP, (if your capture device only supports 1080p then you need a separate HDCP-stripper and 4K to 1080p down-converter in between).
  • Computer that can analyze 4K @ 60 fps to convert
  • Arduino
  • LED-strips
  • Power-supply for Arduino and power-supply for LED-strips.
Just follow these links to a DIY project that lists all components and shows the complexity needed for doing this on the cheap just for supporting any 1080p HDMI source, (but does not include a HDMI-switch for supporting multiple HDMI sources). And again remember, if you want the same type of solution to support 4K at 60 fps then the price for the parts needed will almost be ten-fold for many of these devices/components, or you need to introduce additional devices/components which adds even more complexity.

https://christianmoser.me/how-to-ambilig...mi-source/
http://schematics.com/project/ambilight-box-32568/

Add the extra HDMI cables and some nice cases to hide all the parts in then all of the sudden Lightpack 2 will look like cheap deal for something that does all this in one box.

(2016-07-14 11:10)ianuk2005 Wrote:  Have to admit the extra $100 for 4k support is high and going to put some users off. With decoding 4k being so cheap, you can literally do it with commercial hardware for <$40 it feels like they haven't just added on the extra cost. I, and i'm assuming others were expecting it to be moved into the standard model at the same price point.
With the exception of decode such as a chipset in a simple Android 4K media player does, 4K devices for the rest of the function you need does indeed not come cheap, not cheap at all.

Yes chips that cab decode 4K might be cheap today, but capturing and analysing is not the same as letting a chip decode and render to surface. And as noted above, a 4K HDMI-matrix (or 4K HDMI-splitter + 4K HDMI-switch) and 4K capture device is not cheap, and niether is supporting input from a 4K HDMI 2.0 source which is encypted with HDCP 2.2 today.

However, this will of course all change soon enrough as 4K for every component will become mainsteam within a couple of years from now and then price for those parts will also become cheap, but fact remains that today all those parts are not cheap.

Today, when you need all compoents/functions to support 4K @ 60 fps then the solution will not be cheap, not even for DIY.
(This post was last modified: 2016-07-14 13:58 by RockerC.)
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Lunatixz Offline
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Post: #42
(2016-07-14 12:56)RockerC Wrote:  
(2016-07-13 02:22)timstephens24 Wrote:  $259 for the UHD set, not $500. $259 for $60 worth of hardware and not having to DIY and deal with it doesn't seem too high to me. I might actually get it.
(2016-07-12 22:17)Lunatixz Wrote:  Yes, but for a ridiculous price... Not sure what High end market they are trying to appeal to.

IMO there are way too many cheaper alternatives.
You guys are still comparing apples and oranges in my opinion.

Your average DIY project for Kodi run in a PC or Raspberry Pi does not support any HDMI sources at all, instead they need to run a software on the same computer to capture the rendering.

It is much more than $60 dollars’ worth of hardware if you want to have ambilight from other HDMI sources as you need at least need a HDMI-matrix switch that supports 4K @ 60 fps (or a HDMI-splitter + a HDMI-switch), and a hardware HDMI video capture device that also supports 4K @ 60 fps just to begin to compare, and just those two alone are going to cost more than $200 put together. Then you really also need to include the price of a computer that can capture 4K @ 60 to analyze the picture and convert to data for the LED strip, and there a Raspberry Pi will not be enough for 4K @ 60 fps. And if you want to capture HDCP encrypted videos then all your equipment need to support that as well.

So, you first have to understand cannot compare this with a DIY project where you only run Kodi and have a LED-strip connected to a Raspberry Pi or PC with an Arduino. As the point with Lightpack 2 and similar solutions like DreamScreen is that they support HDMI input and multiple HDMI inputs, such as multiple video game systems. With a solution like Lightpack 2 and DreamScreen you can connect multiple HDMI sources such as an Xbox One, a PlayStation 4, a Chromecast, or Blu-ray Disc player, as well as a device running Kodi, and have all connected all the time, as the Lightpack 2 as an integrated HDMI switch and DreamScreen support you connecting any HDMI switch.

While you can achieve input from any HDMI source with some DIY projects too, it requires many more parts and the solution gets much more complex which is going to cost you a lot more than $60 dollars, especially if you also want support input from any 4K sources @ 60 fps. Not something your average DIY:er puts together, and even if you do you will not be saving a lot of money of doing this yourself if you want a solution that supports 4K @ 60 fps.

To compare with Lightpack 2 UHD solution your DIY project need components like:
  • 4 x 2 HDMI-matrix switch that supports 4K @ 60 (or a HDMI-splitter + a HDMI-switch that both supports 4K @ 60 could do the same job as a
  • HDMI video capture device that support capturing 4K @ 60 fps encrypted with HDCP, (if your capture device only supports 1080p then you need a separate HDCP-stripper and 4K to 1080p down-converter in between).
  • Computer that can analyze 4K @ 60 fps to convert
  • Arduino
  • LED-strips
  • Power-supply for Arduino and power-supply for LED-strips.
Just follow these links to a DIY project that lists all components and shows the complexity needed for doing this on the cheap just for supporting any 1080p HDMI source, (but does not include a HDMI-switch for supporting multiple HDMI sources). And again remember, if you want the same type of solution to support 4K at 60 fps then the price for the parts needed will almost be ten-fold for many of these devices/components, or you need to introduce additional devices/components which adds even more complexity.

https://christianmoser.me/how-to-ambilig...mi-source/
http://schematics.com/project/ambilight-box-32568/

Add the extra HDMI cables and some nice cases to hide all the parts in then all of the sudden Lightpack 2 will look like cheap deal for something that does all this in one box.

(2016-07-14 11:10)ianuk2005 Wrote:  Have to admit the extra $100 for 4k support is high and going to put some users off. With decoding 4k being so cheap, you can literally do it with commercial hardware for <$40 it feels like they haven't just added on the extra cost. I, and i'm assuming others were expecting it to be moved into the standard model at the same price point.
With the exception of decode such as a chipset in a simple Android 4K media player does, 4K devices for the rest of the function you need does indeed not come cheap, not cheap at all.

Yes chips that cab decode 4K might be cheap today, but capturing and analysing is not the same as letting a chip decode and render to surface. And as noted above, a 4K HDMI-matrix (or 4K HDMI-splitter + 4K HDMI-switch) and 4K capture device is not cheap, and niether is supporting input from a 4K HDMI 2.0 source which is encypted with HDCP 2.2 today.

However, this will of course all change soon enrough as 4K for every component will become mainsteam within a couple of years from now and then price for those parts will also become cheap, but fact remains that today all those parts are not cheap.

Today, when you need all compoents/functions to support 4K @ 60 fps then the solution will not be cheap, not even for DIY.

@RockerC there are a few diy projects that include A/V & HDMI input.. I have yet to see a single ambilight kickstarter project that was a original idea, most if not all are based of the aforementioned diy projects (Concept / Base code).

here is a example: http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Ambi...MIAV-Sour/

BTW about the HDMI switch... I'd rather see a completely passive hdmi lightswitch, than one that is paired with a switch. My gut tells me the switch will be the source of major issues for most technophiles. God knows the switches capabilities, and build quality.
(This post was last modified: 2016-07-14 18:55 by Lunatixz.)
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RockerC Offline
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Post: #43
(2016-07-14 18:51)Lunatixz Wrote:  @RockerC there are a few diy projects that include A/V & HDMI input.. I have yet to see a single ambilight kickstarter project that was a original idea, most if not all are based of the aforementioned diy projects (Concept / Base code).

here is a example: http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Ambi...MIAV-Sour/
I already know that, and I guess you did not actually read my whole post because I actually mentioned that and even included links to a such DIY project as a reference an independent source that show prices and minimum complexity of components needed for a DIY solution that is still only capable of 1080:

Just follow these links to a DIY project that lists all components and shows the complexity needed for doing this on the cheap just for supporting any 1080p HDMI source, (but does not include a HDMI-switch for supporting multiple HDMI sources). And again remember, if you want the same type of solution to support 4K at 60 fps then the price for the parts needed will almost be ten-fold for many of these devices/components, or you need to introduce additional devices/components which adds even more complexity.

https://christianmoser.me/how-to-ambilig...mi-source/
http://schematics.com/project/ambilight-box-32568/

Add the extra HDMI cables and some nice cases to hide all the parts in then all of the sudden Lightpack 2 will look like cheap deal for something that does all this in one box.

(2016-07-14 18:51)Lunatixz Wrote:  BTW about the HDMI switch... I'd rather see a completely passive hdmi lightswitch, than one that is paired with a switch. My gut tells me the switch will be the source of major issues for most technophiles. God knows the switches capabilities, and build quality.
Huh? Didn't quiote understand that. Anyway, you don't need a HDMI-switch (if you only have one HDMI source or use a seperate external switch), but you do need a HDMI-splitter as otherwise you can not send a pass-trhough signal to your television. And it is primarly the HDMI-splitter that will cause most issues and set limitatons.
(This post was last modified: 2016-07-15 13:18 by RockerC.)
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reddevil57 Offline
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Post: #44
Hi,
I already asked this question to WoodenShark with still no answers...
May be someone will be able to tell me here ! Smile
I would like to pledge lightpack 2 but I own a 78" Samsung TV and 5 meters of led ribbon seems to be to short for this tv.
I'd need 6.2 meters to be able to make the whole perimeter.
All the contributions have a 5 meters RGB Led ribbon and I can't see if it is possible to get more.
Any idea ?
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DarrenHill Offline
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Post: #45
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