Kodi 17 Font Size and Biology
#16
Estuary is well within 10 foot interface guidelines though.

https://developer.amazon.com/public/solu...typography

And as you can see just increasing the font sizes causes all sorts of layout problems unless you spend a lot of time adjusting things - so it's not as easy as people seem to think.
Reply
#17
(2017-04-30, 19:06)Martijn Wrote: Now if you need bigger fonts you change it yourself for now or move your couch closer to the TV.
Is that before or after you kick rocks?
Reply
#18
It might sound a little pretentious, but you also need to consider the artistic integrity of the author's creation.
If I have helped you or increased your knowledge, click the 'thumbs up' button to give thanks :) (People with less than 20 posts won't see the "thumbs up" button.)
Reply
#19
(2017-04-30, 19:09)Hitcher Wrote: Estuary is well within 10 foot interface guidelines though.

https://developer.amazon.com/public/solu...typography

And as you can see just increasing the font sizes causes all sorts of layout problems unless you spend a lot of time adjusting things - so it's not as easy as people seem to think.

Hey Hitcher. The problem with interface guidelines is that they don't apply to everyone. They are likely based on the visual acuity of the average person. Unfortunately I, and many others, have a poorer visual acuity than the average person.

The average person sees 20/20, whereas I currently see around 20/50. This means that what the average person can see at 50 feet, I have to be as close as 20 feet to see. So if we apply this to the TV and your 10 foot interface guideline, that means while you can read the fonts on Kodi comfortably from 10 feet away on your couch, I have to be just 4 feet away! This is why adjustable font sizes are so friggin' important.

But yes, larger fonts can make the UX look less pretty. But a pretty UX is a nice-to-have, a legible UX is a MUST have. Any UX designer should do their best to build a UX that can adapt and stretch to as many font sizes as possible. However, eventually a font size may be set bigger than what can be reasonably expected in which case it becomes user beware.

In the short term, I'd like to see an option added where the user can enter a "Minimum Font Size" allowing them to enter any font size number that could be entered into font.xml. This would override any font size in font.xml that is smaller than the set minimum. This is a hammer approach because it affects all areas of the UX, but is probably the easiest place to start. To protect Kodi from any problems related to this setting, a large warning should be displayed when attempting to change this setting. Something like...

WARNING - Applying a font size that is too large may negative affect or break Kodi's user interface. Text and UI elements may become illegible, hidden or break. Proceed at your own risk. To help avoid problems, we recommend starting with a small font size, viewing its effects and then increasing in small steps until the desired legibility is achieved.

In the long term, I'd like to see font.xml broken down into finer settings. Right now I believe some font.xml settings affect multiple parts of the UX. The is bad in that if the user only wants to make a certain aspect of the UX bigger, something else will change also. Each individual element of the UX should have its own font.xml setting. That way the user can change the font size of only what they need without negatively affecting anything else.

Then a font section could be added to Kodi settings where the size of each UX element can be set. Something like...

Movie/TV/music lists [___]
Movie/TV/Music descriptions [___]
Main menu [___]
Clock [___]
Movie/TV/Music widgets [___]
Category widgets [___]
Media flags [___]
etc...

Again, this page could also have a huge warning about possible side effects.

Anyway, I guess unless you actually have poor vision you really don't understand just how important adjustable font sizes are.

Thanks
Reply
#20
The problem with this thread is that the users requesting larger font sizes don't realize they have reached an impasse.

The skin is going to remain as it is. If you want the author to consider changing an aspect of the theme, then you are welcome to create an issue on the skin's GitHub repo: https://github.com/phil65/skin.estuary

However, please realize that for all intents and purposes, Estuary is basically frozen for Kodi 17.x (Krypton). Work is already progressing on the updates to the skin for Kodi 18.x (Leia).

There are multiple threads in this forum about modifications that other users have made to the skin, some of them including increased or adjustable font sizes. (I know this to be true, but I have posted in a couple of them; additionally I have also posted some easy modifications that can be made to increase the font size/legibility.)

No one wants to hear this, but a general consensus has been reached: if you want to change an aspect of the skin that is not an out-and-out error/bug, then at this juncture it is up to you to do it yourself. Several of Kodi's (rather prolific) skinners have already commented on this thread, and they have all replied that the change you want will most likely never be upstreamed.

Please either gracefully accept defeat, or enter the battle yourself to work towards your victory; others are not going to go to war for you beyond what they have already done.
Reply
#21
As someone in his 50s I sympathize!
If I have helped you or increased your knowledge, click the 'thumbs up' button to give thanks :) (People with less than 20 posts won't see the "thumbs up" button.)
Reply
#22
(2017-05-01, 03:39)rpcameron Wrote: The problem with this thread is that the users requesting larger font sizes don't realize they have reached an impasse.

The skin is going to remain as it is. If you want the author to consider changing an aspect of the theme, then you are welcome to create an issue on the skin's GitHub repo: https://github.com/phil65/skin.estuary

An impasse? So like I want a feature to help make Kodi accessible to the visually impaired, and Team Kodi doesn't?... Got it!

And thanks, maybe I'll make a request directly to phil65 on github. I thought issues or requests brought up on this forum would reach the people who could do something about it but I guess I was mistaken.

(2017-05-01, 03:39)rpcameron Wrote: However, please realize that for all intents and purposes, Estuary is basically frozen for Kodi 17.x (Krypton). Work is already progressing on the updates to the skin for Kodi 18.x (Leia).

I'm using and talking about Kodi 18.

(2017-05-01, 03:39)rpcameron Wrote: There are multiple threads in this forum about modifications that other users have made to the skin, some of them including increased or adjustable font sizes. (I know this to be true, but I have posted in a couple of them; additionally I have also posted some easy modifications that can be made to increase the font size/legibility.)

Sorry if I've missed your easy modifications. The only modification that I know of is changing the font.xml file, which I would not consider easy for people who are not computer literate, especially when having to connect to android first.

But yes, I saw a skin where the font size had been increased 10-15% I believe. Now if it could just be increased by at least another 135% we'd be getting somewhere. Also I don't know how often skins change, but I don't really want to rely on one off skins from a source I don't know.

(2017-05-01, 03:39)rpcameron Wrote: No one wants to hear this, but a general consensus has been reached: if you want to change an aspect of the skin that is not an out-and-out error/bug, then at this juncture it is up to you to do it yourself. Several of Kodi's (rather prolific) skinners have already commented on this thread, and they have all replied that the change you want will most likely never be upstreamed.

Ohh, well if a general consensus has been reached, my bad. You mean like the general consensus that stairs were good enough to enter buildings... until they started adding wheelchair ramps to help the physically disabled? Or the consensus that the printed word was good enough for reading and navigation... until braille was created to help the blind. But font size options to help the visually impaired read what's on their TV screens?... Sorry pal, a general consensus has been reached!

And nobody identified themselves in this thread as a skinner, prolific or otherwise. And they certainly didn't state why adding font sizes is difficult or what the technical hurdle is that can't be overcome. Many people have said "If you think it's so easy, do it yourself" but like I said, no one has said why it can't be done.

(2017-05-01, 03:39)rpcameron Wrote: Please either gracefully accept defeat, or enter the battle yourself to work towards your victory; others are not going to go to war for you beyond what they have already done.

Defeat? Battle? Victory? War?... Mountain out of a molehill much? So we're back to if you want one change, go learn how to code it yourself. So I guess the people who made the absolutely critical request that the power and settings buttons be moved from below the main menu to above the main menu learned how to code to make that change happen right?... No? But the people who want font sizes to make Kodi accessible to those with poor vision do have to learn. Glad you have your priorities straight.


ANYHOOOooooo.... Like I said several posts back, I know how to adjust the fonts for myself now. I'll still reply to whoever replies to me here, but just know that I'm not trying to be a d*#k by keeping this thread going. I've solved the problem for myself, but I still believe Team Kodi should add a font size feature because helping others in need is just something good human beings should do.


Thanks, and keep up the good work on the rest of Kodi!
Reply
#23
@peterallcdn your position has been well stated and there is nothing wrong with civilised debate.

May I ask which skin you were using before Estuary, and why you don't continue to use it?
If I have helped you or increased your knowledge, click the 'thumbs up' button to give thanks :) (People with less than 20 posts won't see the "thumbs up" button.)
Reply
#24
I'm not trying to be a dick with my comments but it really isn't as easy as adjusting the sizes in the font.xml - you may have some text that's aligned in a certain way with something else that will be totally messed up by simply altering its size; you may label controls whose heights aren't big enough for a larger font so they get cut off; you may also have others that cause text to wrap again messing up the design; the list goes on. How many other UI's allow you to adjust the font size?

Having said all that I've updated Confluence for Leia so you free to go back to that skin.
Reply
#25
(2017-05-01, 08:18)nickr Wrote: @peterallcdn your position has been well stated and there is nothing wrong with civilised debate.

May I ask which skin you were using before Estuary, and why you don't continue to use it?

I was using Confluence on SPMC (Kodi 16.x). I've only played around with Kodi 17 and Estuary on my PC but never switched to it on my TV because of the font size issue. I only just now added Kodi 18 + Estuary to my TV as I finally figured out how to access its files on my Shield and therefore could change its font sizes.

As far as I knew, Confluence was replaced by Estuary on Kodi 17+ and I assumed that it would no longer be maintained or receive feature parity with Estuary. But Hitcher just wrote that he updated Confluence for Leia, so maybe I'm wrong? If I knew Confluence was still available for Kodi 17 and that it wouldn't have caused me to miss new features of Kodi 17, I probably would have gone that route.

But now that I know how to change fonts on Estuary, there isn't any reason now to go back to Confluence. EXCEPT I will miss the Media Info 3 view from Confluence. Fanart on Estuary is close but it's missing the poster/box cover art which just leaves the view feeling incomplete. I'm hoping to figure out how to edit the view and add the missing poster art. I took a look at the view xml files hoping I could see the code for the poster art in one of the other views and copy it somehow to the fanart view. But clearly something more complex is happening with those files 'cause I saw no plain english mention of where the images are being placed etc. Never as easy as hoped. haha
Reply
#26
We did say in every announcement about 17 & Estuary that Confluence was still supported.
If I have helped you or increased your knowledge, click the 'thumbs up' button to give thanks :) (People with less than 20 posts won't see the "thumbs up" button.)
Reply
#27
Wow, you need the fonts to be a whopping 135% larger? You must have severely compromised vision. I'm one of the guys that supported the original "massive font size" thread, but I have got to go with the kodi devs on this one-- with such poor vision, you should really use a skin specifically targeting accessibility. It's not reasonable to expect the default skin font sizes to scale to almost 2.5x their normal size and still somehow work.

I agree that the default skin should make compromises for accessibility. A skin setting to increase fonts up to 50% (say, from 12 points to 18) would be reasonable and very useful. But you're talking 12 to 28.
Reply
#28
(2017-05-01, 15:22)rodalpho Wrote: Wow, you need the fonts to be a whopping 135% larger? You must have severely compromised vision. I'm one of the guys that supported the original "massive font size" thread, but I have got to go with the kodi devs on this one-- with such poor vision, you should really use a skin specifically targeting accessibility. It's not reasonable to expect the default skin font sizes to scale to almost 2.5x their normal size and still somehow work.

I agree that the default skin should make compromises for accessibility. A skin setting to increase fonts up to 50% (say, from 12 points to 18) would be reasonable and very useful. But you're talking 12 to 28.

As I am one of the ones who fall into peterallcdn vision range, I get his frustration when it comes to the font. Rodalpho, hopefully, you never have to deal with "severely compromised" vision.
Is it easy to change the font in estuary? LOL, no. there is no longer a font.xml file to edit in Android. So now you have to build a new skin, which is surprisingly easy. But then you run into the same problem as every other skin that I have torn into their font.xml file. What changes what when you change a font. Font 12 can change everything from a movie description to something in the settings. Not saying this directly at estuary as I have not really dug that far into it. Way easier doubling the font size or more and living with the crappy looks of some things.
Way easier to not be able to read a few things because they overlap then getting up off the coach or out of my chair to read a movie description every couple of minutes.
I do not notice much overlap or words coming out of their desired "boxes" as much with Estuary. Other fonts, these issues are absolutely deal breakers. So is it easy to build a lot bigger fonts into Estuary? Absolutely. I know very little about coding and I have been able to do it quite easy. (might not be the most pretty thing but it is functional at least.) I wonder how someone with skills could make it look in an hours time.
Reply
#29
I have to say (and this is skin neutral) I probably rely quite heavily on visual indicators besides the writing. Fanart, posters, icons etc.
If I have helped you or increased your knowledge, click the 'thumbs up' button to give thanks :) (People with less than 20 posts won't see the "thumbs up" button.)
Reply
#30
While I sympathize, I can't understand why needing the interface to change is the solution for those with poor vision. You don't expect the city to make traffic signage in gargantuan sized lettering to permit those with poor eyesight to drive; instead you ask drivers to wear corrective lenses. Large-print format books are available, but they are not the default printed, and are not available for every title; if reading is difficult, corrective lenses such as reading glasses and the like are used.

You may think I don't understand what it's like, but my vision is actually much poorer than yours: 20/80 in my left eye, and 20/200 (yes, essentially blind) in my right eye. If your vision is as poor as you claim, you cannot easily function without corrective lenses of some sort in regular daily life, and therefore probably have a pair; is it so difficult to put them on when watching TV?
Reply

Logout Mark Read Team Forum Stats Members Help
Kodi 17 Font Size and Biology0