2019-01-11, 18:31
Does Kodi even play HDR Netflix stuff?
2019-01-11, 21:52
(2019-01-05, 20:05)mattmarsden Wrote: I’m sure I read that the Shield has fixed the high bitrate atmos dropouts, will this be implemented in Kodi?I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed a fix for this. I'm on the latest update and I still have dropouts on high bitrate ATMOS tracks, in Kodi and Plex. I'm on one of the latest nightly builds of Kodi 18 for Androids. I've read that if you switch to Wi-Fi, the issue goes away, and I've tried this but didn't seem to make any difference.
2019-01-12, 00:23
2019-01-12, 00:26
(2019-01-11, 14:44)SparkyBoy Wrote: I have a Sony KD-65A1 4 k TV and am now pleased that the colour switching is much better for BT.709 and BT.2020 content.
However I am struggling with Netflix HDR content appearing much darker than 4k only content.
For example, my daughter watches "Chilling Adventures of Sabrina". My experience so far is:
1) on Shield TV, Netflix content is HDR (4k) and the scenes are generally very dark
2) on Sky Q, Netflix app shows the exact same content as 4K but no HDR. The same scenes are much brighter.
So we are having to watch any Netflix HDR shows on the Sky Q app as non-HDR content due to the general darkness.
For reference, I use KODI for movies and the HDR content is nice and bright and looks amazing. So I know the issue is not with the TV or with KODI. It seems to be the Netflix HDR content.
Does anyone else experience this or have suggestions on what I can change on Shield TV?
TL;DR - we are watching SDR content brighter than Hollywood wants us to...
In general most people with HDR TVs are watching their SDR content far brighter than SDR is intended to be watched and are thus pushing SDR content into the HDR range of their displays. This is understandable - people are making their new TVs 'nice and bright' for day-to-day viewing.
However when you watch HDR10/DV content, this shows the SDR content in the HDR signal at the level it is 'designed' to be watched at, leaving only speculars and highlights in the HDR brightness range. This means SDR content within HDR looks a lot darker than many people watch SDR-only stuff in reality... HDR10/DV are PQ HDR standards that map precise pixel light levels to content, unlike SDR standards.
In theory the SDR content should peak at ~100nits, and HDR10 content is showing the SDR elements of a picture at that light level. However lots of people set their SDR viewing brightness/contrast/backlight etc. so SDR-only content peaks at 200,300+ nits - well into HDR range...
(This is why lots of us think HDR10/DV is flawed as a domestic HDR standard and HLG makes more sense)
**EDIT - thought of a better way of explaining this **
Imagine SDR video is designed to go from 0-100% with 100% being the brightest bit of the picture, and 0 being black.
We adjust our TVs so that 100% is at a brightness we like when we set brightness/contrast/black level/backlight (and in some cases contrast extension/HDR simulation etc.)
However the specifications for video that are used during production set 100% SDR video at 100nits, and that's what well adjusted displays used for post production of SDR content are calibrated to (along with the right bias/ambient light level in the production environment).
Most people have their TVs set with 100% SDR at much higher levels than this - 200, 300, 400+ nits. This give you an incredibly bright SDR picture. This is, however, much brighter than the specs used in production.
Now imagined HDR video is designed to go from 0-1000%. The SDR picture content still occupies 0-100%, but unlike SDR brighter bits of the picture aren't clipped at 100% and the 100-1000% range is available (indeed ideally is reserved for) highlights, specular detail (that would be clipped to 100% in SDR or have to be distorted to be visible)
Well graded HDR video will keep the bulk of the picture information in the SDR 0-100% range, so this section maps pretty well (at least to around 75%) to the 0-100% SDR version.
However with HDR10/DV HDR content, TVs follow PQ (Perceptive Quantisation) curves which absolutely link video levels to light levels. They nail pixel brightness values to light levels. This means that the 0-100% SDR range (which carries the bulk of the picture) in HDR video is fixed at 0-100nits but the TV, with the 100-1000% areas mapped above this (ideally to 1000nits - but not all displays reach that high - and some PQ curves could go to 4000nits or 10000nits)
If you are watching SDR content mapped to 0-300nits, and then watch the same show in HDR where the SDR content (i.e. most of the image) will be mapped to 0-100nits, the show will look a lot dimmer.
2019-01-12, 06:24
How can you tell if color switching is working?
Using a Samsung tv if that's relevant
Using a Samsung tv if that's relevant
2019-01-12, 10:49
(2019-01-12, 06:24)Glyde62 Wrote: How can you tell if color switching is working?Does your TV have an info button?
Using a Samsung tv if that's relevant
On my setup (LG OLED with Shield set to 2020) I can actually see it switching on the home screen in the background when enabling the option, as well as on the TV's info dialog.
2019-01-12, 15:43
Appreciate the explanation.
However, When I watch HDR movies via KODI then the brightness is fine: Dark areas are dark and bright areas really bright - overall scenes look good.
When I watch a Netflix app show in HDR on Shield TV then generally the picture is generally much darker overall so its difficult to make out details.
However, When I watch HDR movies via KODI then the brightness is fine: Dark areas are dark and bright areas really bright - overall scenes look good.
When I watch a Netflix app show in HDR on Shield TV then generally the picture is generally much darker overall so its difficult to make out details.
2019-01-12, 15:43
(2019-01-12, 00:26)noggin Wrote:Appreciate the explanation.(2019-01-11, 14:44)SparkyBoy Wrote: I have a Sony KD-65A1 4 k TV and am now pleased that the colour switching is much better for BT.709 and BT.2020 content.TL;DR - we are watching SDR content brighter than Hollywood wants us to...
However I am struggling with Netflix HDR content appearing much darker than 4k only content.
For example, my daughter watches "Chilling Adventures of Sabrina". My experience so far is:
1) on Shield TV, Netflix content is HDR (4k) and the scenes are generally very dark
2) on Sky Q, Netflix app shows the exact same content as 4K but no HDR. The same scenes are much brighter.
So we are having to watch any Netflix HDR shows on the Sky Q app as non-HDR content due to the general darkness.
For reference, I use KODI for movies and the HDR content is nice and bright and looks amazing. So I know the issue is not with the TV or with KODI. It seems to be the Netflix HDR content.
Does anyone else experience this or have suggestions on what I can change on Shield TV?
In general most people with HDR TVs are watching their SDR content far brighter than SDR is intended to be watched and are thus pushing SDR content into the HDR range of their displays. This is understandable - people are making their new TVs 'nice and bright' for day-to-day viewing.
However when you watch HDR10/DV content, this shows the SDR content in the HDR signal at the level it is 'designed' to be watched at, leaving only speculars and highlights in the HDR brightness range. This means SDR content within HDR looks a lot darker than many people watch SDR-only stuff in reality... HDR10/DV are PQ HDR standards that map precise pixel light levels to content, unlike SDR standards.
In theory the SDR content should peak at ~100nits, and HDR10 content is showing the SDR elements of a picture at that light level. However lots of people set their SDR viewing brightness/contrast/backlight etc. so SDR-only content peaks at 200,300+ nits - well into HDR range...
(This is why lots of us think HDR10/DV is flawed as a domestic HDR standard and HLG makes more sense)
**EDIT - thought of a better way of explaining this **
Imagine SDR video is designed to go from 0-100% with 100% being the brightest bit of the picture, and 0 being black.
We adjust our TVs so that 100% is at a brightness we like when we set brightness/contrast/black level/backlight (and in some cases contrast extension/HDR simulation etc.)
However the specifications for video that are used during production set 100% SDR video at 100nits, and that's what well adjusted displays used for post production of SDR content are calibrated to (along with the right bias/ambient light level in the production environment).
Most people have their TVs set with 100% SDR at much higher levels than this - 200, 300, 400+ nits. This give you an incredibly bright SDR picture. This is, however, much brighter than the specs used in production.
Now imagined HDR video is designed to go from 0-1000%. The SDR picture content still occupies 0-100%, but unlike SDR brighter bits of the picture aren't clipped at 100% and the 100-1000% range is available (indeed ideally is reserved for) highlights, specular detail (that would be clipped to 100% in SDR or have to be distorted to be visible)
Well graded HDR video will keep the bulk of the picture information in the SDR 0-100% range, so this section maps pretty well (at least to around 75%) to the 0-100% SDR version.
However with HDR10/DV HDR content, TVs follow PQ (Perceptive Quantisation) curves which absolutely link video levels to light levels. They nail pixel brightness values to light levels. This means that the 0-100% SDR range (which carries the bulk of the picture) in HDR video is fixed at 0-100nits but the TV, with the 100-1000% areas mapped above this (ideally to 1000nits - but not all displays reach that high - and some PQ curves could go to 4000nits or 10000nits)
If you are watching SDR content mapped to 0-300nits, and then watch the same show in HDR where the SDR content (i.e. most of the image) will be mapped to 0-100nits, the show will look a lot dimmer.
However, When I watch HDR movies via KODI then the brightness is fine: Dark areas are dark and bright areas really bright - overall scenes look good.
When I watch a Netflix app show in HDR on Shield TV then generally the picture is generally much darker overall so its difficult to make out details.
2019-01-12, 18:00
2019-01-12, 19:11
(2019-01-12, 18:00)KaBoS Wrote:(2019-01-12, 06:24)Glyde62 Wrote: How can you tell if color switching is working?same question ! some tv not show color in info .
Using a Samsung tv if that's relevant
If your TV lets you manually select colour gamut as well as following HDMI automatically - then switching to Rec 709 or Rec 2020 manually will tell you if there is a change to the current mode.
On my Sony set I can manually force Auto (where it does what it's told), or manually force Rec 709, Rec 2020 etc. You can see the TV change or not change as a result.
2019-01-12, 19:12
(2019-01-12, 15:43)SparkyBoy Wrote: Appreciate the explanation.
However, When I watch HDR movies via KODI then the brightness is fine: Dark areas are dark and bright areas really bright - overall scenes look good.
When I watch a Netflix app show in HDR on Shield TV then generally the picture is generally much darker overall so its difficult to make out details.
I can't really comment - my Shield TV in Netflix HDR10 vs watching UHD HDR10 Blu-rays looks roughly the same, give or take grading choices made by the colourist/DoP/director.
2019-01-14, 01:45
Theres a bug with the color switching that you can enable in the developer settings.
When you play 4k non HDR content, that is actually bt709, it automatically switches to 2020, which is incorrect.
Because of that, 4K vp9 youtube videos (non-HDR, since NV Shield TV doesnt support 4K VP9 with HDR due to hardware limitations) that show bt709 in the video stats are displayed at rec2020. I was able to see the incorrect behaviour with HDfury integral 2.
Im sure it will be the same with other 4K files like 4k h264 files that are actually bt709 etc.
Other than that, some 1080p bt709 stuff looks too dark on my TV as well which is LG Oled B7, some youtube 1080p videos appeared too dark in some areas, not quite sure if it is to blame on the video itself (BF V gameplay) or some incorrect luminance applied by the Shield TV.
Does the Shield TV actually support auto-switching refresh rate to match the content across all apps? Or they didnt add this feature yet? Is there an option or tweak to force it somehow?
EDIT: a sort of workaround for 4K VP9 bt709 youtube videos which look washed out due to beeing displayed at incorrect rec2020, is to switch to 1440p resolution, then the Shield TV switches to bt709 and the video gets its original contrast back. So for youtube its not that much of a big deal for now (until they hopefully fix it).
Other than that, this fix makes a huge difference, so props to NV for finally adding this feature. They got it to 85-90% done, only need a few tweaks and fixes to get it working 100% (hopefully).
When you play 4k non HDR content, that is actually bt709, it automatically switches to 2020, which is incorrect.
Because of that, 4K vp9 youtube videos (non-HDR, since NV Shield TV doesnt support 4K VP9 with HDR due to hardware limitations) that show bt709 in the video stats are displayed at rec2020. I was able to see the incorrect behaviour with HDfury integral 2.
Im sure it will be the same with other 4K files like 4k h264 files that are actually bt709 etc.
Other than that, some 1080p bt709 stuff looks too dark on my TV as well which is LG Oled B7, some youtube 1080p videos appeared too dark in some areas, not quite sure if it is to blame on the video itself (BF V gameplay) or some incorrect luminance applied by the Shield TV.
Does the Shield TV actually support auto-switching refresh rate to match the content across all apps? Or they didnt add this feature yet? Is there an option or tweak to force it somehow?
EDIT: a sort of workaround for 4K VP9 bt709 youtube videos which look washed out due to beeing displayed at incorrect rec2020, is to switch to 1440p resolution, then the Shield TV switches to bt709 and the video gets its original contrast back. So for youtube its not that much of a big deal for now (until they hopefully fix it).
Other than that, this fix makes a huge difference, so props to NV for finally adding this feature. They got it to 85-90% done, only need a few tweaks and fixes to get it working 100% (hopefully).
2019-01-14, 04:38
(2019-01-14, 01:45)8-BaLL Wrote: Theres a bug with the color switching that you can enable in the developer settings.You should report the bug on the nvidia forums. Can you actually see the difference between 4k and 1440 on your B7?
When you play 4k non HDR content, that is actually bt709, it automatically switches to 2020, which is incorrect.
Because of that, 4K vp9 youtube videos (non-HDR, since NV Shield TV doesnt support 4K VP9 with HDR due to hardware limitations) that show bt709 in the video stats are displayed at rec2020. I was able to see the incorrect behaviour with HDfury integral 2.
Im sure it will be the same with other 4K files like 4k h264 files that are actually bt709 etc.
Other than that, some 1080p bt709 stuff looks too dark on my TV as well which is LG Oled B7, some youtube 1080p videos appeared too dark in some areas, not quite sure if it is to blame on the video itself (BF V gameplay) or some incorrect luminance applied by the Shield TV.
Does the Shield TV actually support auto-switching refresh rate to match the content across all apps? Or they didnt add this feature yet? Is there an option or tweak to force it somehow?
EDIT: a sort of workaround for 4K VP9 bt709 youtube videos which look washed out due to beeing displayed at incorrect rec2020, is to switch to 1440p resolution, then the Shield TV switches to bt709 and the video gets its original contrast back. So for youtube its not that much of a big deal for now (until they hopefully fix it).
Other than that, this fix makes a huge difference, so props to NV for finally adding this feature. They got it to 85-90% done, only need a few tweaks and fixes to get it working 100% (hopefully).
2019-01-14, 11:34
The issue doesnt seem to happen with 4K h264 bt709 files, only with Youtube VP9 4K content. I played a 4K h264 file (59.94 fps, bt709- recorded gamplay on pc) and the color range remained correct at bt709.
What do you mean by seeing a difference, in terms of sharpness? Sure I can see the difference between 1440p and 4K, even with youtube videos. After all 4K has over 2x as many pixels as 1440p.
What would also be interesting if someone could test a 1080p HDR rec2020 file, if the color switches properly. I dont have such file to test, if someone can point me to a download of a test / demo video with 1080p 10/12 bit HDR rec2020 I can test it if it works correctly.
Other than that- I dont have an account on the Nvidia Forums and dont really intend to create one, so if one of you does have an account on NV forums, feel free to post the bug with 4K VP9 bt709 (both 30fps and 60fps) beeing color switched incorrectly to rec2020.
You can show them this picture and they should figure out everything by themselves:
https://imgur.com/a/ql7XUxI
edit: 1080p HEVC HDR works correctly as well, switches to rec2020 properly.
What do you mean by seeing a difference, in terms of sharpness? Sure I can see the difference between 1440p and 4K, even with youtube videos. After all 4K has over 2x as many pixels as 1440p.
What would also be interesting if someone could test a 1080p HDR rec2020 file, if the color switches properly. I dont have such file to test, if someone can point me to a download of a test / demo video with 1080p 10/12 bit HDR rec2020 I can test it if it works correctly.
Other than that- I dont have an account on the Nvidia Forums and dont really intend to create one, so if one of you does have an account on NV forums, feel free to post the bug with 4K VP9 bt709 (both 30fps and 60fps) beeing color switched incorrectly to rec2020.
You can show them this picture and they should figure out everything by themselves:
https://imgur.com/a/ql7XUxI
edit: 1080p HEVC HDR works correctly as well, switches to rec2020 properly.
2019-01-18, 16:05
Hi
Noticed a problem in the last week, with the refresh rate switching.
If I have watched some series in 50 fps and then want to start one that's in 24 fps, it can't. It start's the show, but just stops.
I have to exit Kodi and the start it again, then i loads as it should. I haven't made any changes, the only thing is the two last update's for
the Shield TV.
Here's the logs:
Log1: Here is the problem. From CSI over to Flash won't work. (It's just the last of the log, the log is to big 21MB, but think this shows it)
Log2: Restart of Kodi, short play of CSI 50 fps, and start Flash 24 fsp work. Just played few seconds of CSI to test.
Log3: Her is after a restart. Also working.
Hope there is something I can do about this. Very annoying to restart every time.
Noticed a problem in the last week, with the refresh rate switching.
If I have watched some series in 50 fps and then want to start one that's in 24 fps, it can't. It start's the show, but just stops.
I have to exit Kodi and the start it again, then i loads as it should. I haven't made any changes, the only thing is the two last update's for
the Shield TV.
Here's the logs:
Log1: Here is the problem. From CSI over to Flash won't work. (It's just the last of the log, the log is to big 21MB, but think this shows it)
Log2: Restart of Kodi, short play of CSI 50 fps, and start Flash 24 fsp work. Just played few seconds of CSI to test.
Log3: Her is after a restart. Also working.
Hope there is something I can do about this. Very annoying to restart every time.
