Registration Process & Banned Add-Ons
#16
@DaLanik

Face value, you would think that would work, but it's the definition of "etc." that's doesn't specifically point at their pirate add-on. I suppose a link to a table of known offenders might suffice for the majority. The trick is to get the average user that is focused with blinders on to a specific fix, to look at the wider field.
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#17
Well, if you google for most used addons (pirate) you will notice there are like 1-2 that are mostly used... so if you name just 5-6 most used, that will cover like 80% of the 1st time posters... better than nothing Smile
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#18
"Etc" in the above wording could be a link to the longer list on the wiki.

Anyway, forum is being updated soon, hopefully for the better in this regard and related issues.
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#19
Is there any need to include the words "3rd party"? It's not as if Kodi is providing any
"piracy add ons" in the first place.

IMO, language needs to be clear and explanatory. I can look at videos on youtube. I can look at videos on websites for tv stations here that replay shows that have been on tv. I could also access other "stuff" that appears on an internet search. Some person sitting in their house might not (probably does not) understand copyright law and the difference between legit and not legit internet sources. The term "piracy" explains nothing. An end-user won't know how content gets on the internet. It should be explanatory, along the lines of "add ons that access content which has not been made available for free viewing by the content owner" (or something). I only know that exodus is "bad" from reading the Kodi forum, otherwise I've no clue what it is. Never heard of the others. How can people be expected to know all these names, let alone know that they are dodgy?

"If you use an add-on that accesses content otherwise than with the consent of the owner of that content, you will not get support from the Kodi team. There is a list of the add-ons that violate that rule here -LINK- It is constantly being updated, so don't assume that because it is not on the list it is ok."
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#20
(2017-04-02, 02:17)bilgepump Wrote: Is there any need to include the words "3rd party"? It's not as if Kodi is providing any
"piracy add ons" in the first place.

IMO, language needs to be clear and explanatory. I can look at videos on youtube. I can look at videos on websites for tv stations here that replay shows that have been on tv. I could also access other "stuff" that appears on an internet search. Some person sitting in their house might not (probably does not) understand copyright law and the difference between legit and not legit internet sources. The term "piracy" explains nothing. An (edit:unsophisticated) end-user won't know how content gets on the internet. It should be explanatory, along the lines of "add ons that access content which has not been made available for free viewing by the content owner" (or something). I only know that exodus is "bad" from reading the Kodi forum, otherwise I've no clue what it is. Never heard of the others. How can people be expected to know all these names, let alone know that they are dodgy?

"If you use an add-on that accesses content otherwise than with the consent of the owner of that content, you will not get support from the Kodi team. There is a list of the add-ons that violate that rule here -LINK- It is constantly being updated, so don't assume that because it is not on the list it is ok."
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#21
(2017-04-02, 02:17)bilgepump Wrote: Is there any need to include the words "3rd party"? It's not as if Kodi is providing any
"piracy add ons" in the first place.

Unfortunately yes there is. You know it, but the larger percentage of general users don't. Especially those who are dumb enough to buy fully loaded Chinese crap boxes and then think we provide and support everything, both software and hardware.

The distinction needs to continue to be made as part of the general campaign against this tide.
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#22
(2017-04-02, 09:19)DarrenHill Wrote: You know it, but the larger percentage of general users don't.
I think you misunderstood what I meant.

"Kodi does not support piracy add-ons". Doesn't that cover it? What is the distinction between piracy add-ons and "third party" piracy add-ons?

It could be covered by "Kodi does not provide any piracy add-ons and nor does it support any."
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#23
Frankly I am convinced that no matter what you put in the sign up page, no one will read it. Also, to be frank again, I never do myself, and I am a lawyer and therefore should know better. [1]

How about having to tick a number of boxes before you post, maybe the first 10 times:

* I have read the forum rules.
* I have not installed a "wizard" or "kodi build"
* I do not have any of the addons or repos referred to in [the banned page] installed on my system.

Along to a link to a wiki page about how to clean up your system.

[1] "whadda ya mean you never read it before you signed up [shakes head] Man this is gonna be expensive, lawyers dream about clients like you..."
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#24
@bilgepump - it's a question of semantics, but i see what you mean. It's preferred to explicitly state the 3rd party element i think to drive that point home, and in some cases to forestall the next question of why we supplied them, which occurs all too often.

@nickr - works for me... Wink We'd have to write a clean up page though, which in itself isn't a bad idea.
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#25
(2017-04-02, 09:32)nickr Wrote: How about having to tick a number of boxes before you post, maybe the first 10 times:

* I have read the forum rules.
* I have not installed a "wizard" or "kodi build"
* I do not have any of the addons or repos referred to in [the banned page] installed on my system.
There's no rule saying you can't use builds, repos, banned addons etc and sign up / post here, is there?
The rules themselves are far from clear - it's not surprising new posters fall foul of them.
Can you point me at the rule saying clearly that any provided log that contains a banned addon will result in a thread being trashed - whether discussion is 'dealing directly with or linking to' that addon or not?
Can you point me to where it says simply mentioning a banned addon (eg 'In the past I used...' or 'I tried...') will get a thread trashed?
You can argue that they're there. You can't claim it's clear.
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#26
Simply put we do not support those addons or repos and we do not support systems with them installed, because many wizards, builds and banned addons fundamentally change kodi in unpredictable ways. We also just don't want to be associated with that shit.

You raise a point though, someone should be able to make a post that isn't a support request, no matter what they have installed. For example, a feature request, or a link to "Kodi in the media".

I will revise my wording tomorrow. Bedtime now.
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#27
(2017-04-02, 10:21)nickr Wrote: Simply put we do not support those addons or repos and we do not support systems with them installed.

You raise a point though, someone should be able to make a post that isn't a support request, no matter what they have installed. For example, a feature request, or a link to "Kodi in the media".

I will revise my wording tomorrow. Bedtime now.
That's simply put. It's clear.
Where's the rule that says that?

Edit: that's obviously not just @ nickr, it's equally applicable in the northern hemisphere.
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#28
We have specific rules in place but this does not negate the fact that we as Moderators and Team Members reserve the right to use our discretion if we believe that a post is not in the spirit of the community or is pushing the boundaries of the forum rules.

In such cases where it is not clear what action (if any) should be taken we have an internal discussion and come to a consensus. When it comes to issues with installs that contain banned add-ons we will help if the intention is to remove them all. If we provide support for anything else then we are tacitly supporting getting installs running again with add-ons that we don't support which is not in the spirit of the forum rules.
Always read the Kodi online-manual, FAQ and search the forum before posting.
Read/follow the forum rules.
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#29
(2017-04-02, 11:27)Dangelus Wrote: We have specific rules in place but this does not negate the fact that we as Moderators and Team Members reserve the right to use our discretion if we believe that a post is not in the spirit of the community or is pushing the boundaries of the forum rules.

In such cases where it is not clear what action (if any) should be taken we have an internal discussion and come to a consensus. When it comes to issues with installs that contain banned add-ons we will help if the intention is to remove them all. If we provide support for anything else then we are tacitly supporting getting installs running again with add-ons that we don't support which is not in the spirit of the forum rules.
That just means 'The rules are whatever we say they are.'
Which you can do, but it doesn't relate to what I wrote.

How does a new poster know that if he / she has xyz addon installed and is posting a log to get help with a library problem (ie unrelated) that the thread will be trashed? Where does it say so?
How is he / she supposed to know that if they so much as make a biblical reference their thread will be trashed, even if they're just saying they've used an addon in the past? Where is that rule?

These aren't outliers - they pop up as regular as clockwork and are trashed - often with an accompanying 'read the rules stoopid.' And those posters don't even have the opportunity to make the traditional 'crystal ball' post in reply.

You're setting people up to fail. That's unnecessary. Making the rules clearer and giving clear advice on registration would go a long way to addressing that.
Giving examples of banned stuff - the most common - would be helpful; pointing to a long list in small print in the wiki apparently doesn't work. Who'd have thought it?
Pointing new members at the trash folder - 'here's what you can't do' - might be helpful.
Making 'trashing' a less antagonistic process might be helpful.
Ultimately the desire has to be there though.
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#30
Nobody is saying that improvements cannot be made. The fact is that you could have the most comprehensive set of rules clrearly displayed on every page and it will not stop people posting about things we do not support. People just don't care to read those things and it is especially prevalent in the type of user we get that just thinks Kodi is a magical piracy box.

I don't think we have a problem here per se.

We do not vilify people for violating the rules. The thread gets trashed and hopefully they will read the guidance notes provided and understand why. If they don't they often create a post and ask why and we explain it again. The majority of users who come here are put straight pretty quickly by the team and either don't come back because we cannot provide the support they are wanting or become part of the community and follow the rules. The minority who are obnoxiously persistent and keep breaking the rules will be treated more harshly and in some cases banned.
Always read the Kodi online-manual, FAQ and search the forum before posting.
Read/follow the forum rules.
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