Kodi's official DRM stance

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RockerC Offline
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Post: #61
(2017-05-09 15:07)natethomas Wrote:  
(2017-05-09 14:25)bam80 Wrote:  Thanks jjd-uk.
(2017-04-30 09:45)jjd-uk Wrote:  That's pretty much what we already do where the addon Inputstream Adaptive is the sandbox that hooks into the installed CDM which at the moment comes via Chrome Widevine.
Can Inputstream Adaptive really act as the sandbox which protects us from tracking, etc. from CDM side? Don't we need to make some sort of such sandbox additionally?
If you use an addon like Netflix, I'm fairly certain Netflix is going to track your usage of their content. No sandboxing will stop that. Or are you asking something different?
The EME implementation in Chrome/Firefox is sandboxed so that the CDM Netflix uses does get a unique ID for the sandbox, but the sandbox ID is anonomized so that Netflix can not dig deeper than the sandbox to figure out who owns the computer that Chrome/Firefox is running on, or exactly which hardware you have.

The sandbox is only there for privacy in the practical sence that Netflix will for example not be able to access your web browser cookies or search history. Netflix will not be able to see what content you watch on HBO and vice versa, and nither Netflix or HBO will be able to check if you have any illegally (or legally) downloaded movies on your computer as they can not see anything outsiode their own sandbox.

Netflix as a service will still off-source force you to login so they know which user account is used and on the server-side they can see how many active sessions that user currently have. And as the EME sandbox is not a VPN service the IP-adress thay they stream to will tell Netflix roughly where you are located as long as your internet provider does not provide any location-anonymization service on its own.

Because of the sandbox Netflix will only be able to track what content you watch on Netflix, but that is because you are logged in to Netflix service with your Netflix user-account and stream the content from Netflix servers.

Due to F.U.D. (Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt ) I think most people against DRM fear that Netflix and other content providers can somehow spy on what other content users consume on the same computer which you watch Netflix on with DRM and then worse that Netflix could somehow even activly through DRM stop you from playing non-DRM content if they find something copyrighted on your computer.

I believe that the sandbox that EME implements was partially invented to relieve those types of fears.
(This post was last modified: 2017-05-09 15:44 by RockerC.)
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jjd-uk Offline
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Post: #62
In that case using Widevine via Inputstream Adaptive would be exactly the same as via Chrome.
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bam80 Offline
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Post: #63
Thanks RockerC, this is what I meant by "sandbox" term.
Now I'm pretty sure that Inputstream Adaptive addon alone can't guarantee that - it was designed for other purposes. So, at least in the future, I think we will need a real sandbox to protect ourselves. I just don't know how it's technically hard to implement. For example, can we borrow sandbox implementation from Chrome/Firefox, or we will need to implement it from scratch..
(This post was last modified: 2017-05-09 16:34 by bam80.)
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THE HECKMEISTER Offline
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Post: #64
Ah .......XBMP how you have grown since the little black box of wonderment and gaming appeared.


Stay true to what you and those before you started.

Even in the face of adversity.
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Vod_Kanockers Offline
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Post: #65
I'm quite happy to see the team add DRM modules in some licensable form. If one has paid Hulu, Netflix, AmazonPrime, etc. accounts, one would want to have add-ons that would allow Kodi to access that content. The real obstacle is what can the team actually do that those providers would feel comfortable with. A two step registration mechanism, similar to the URL Resolvers, might help give them a warm fuzzy, when combined with DRM support at some level.
(This post was last modified: 2017-05-27 22:25 by Vod_Kanockers.)
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locoguano Offline
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Post: #66
What it comes down to for me is availability of content...
I downloaded movies and music for years because that is what could be played on my system.
When Spotify became easily usable on my Fire TV, I stopped downloading music and paid for the service.
I stopped downloading movies when I came across streaming addons. I used these instead of Netflix because they could run within Kodi.
When I switched from a PC to a Fire TV suddenly could launch Netflix easily from within Kodi. Its still a step away in that I cannot play the videos in Kodi itself, but it is user friendly enough for the family.

Point being that easy, convenient, and stream-lined access to legal content will pull many user away from the illegal stuff. Neflix, Amazon, Spotify, Hulu, Youtube, etc. all need to be available without jumping through hoops or launching in a browser.
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BFeely Offline
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Post: #67
(2017-05-09 15:28)RockerC Wrote:  
(2017-05-09 15:07)natethomas Wrote:  
(2017-05-09 14:25)bam80 Wrote:  Thanks jjd-uk.
Can Inputstream Adaptive really act as the sandbox which protects us from tracking, etc. from CDM side? Don't we need to make some sort of such sandbox additionally?
If you use an addon like Netflix, I'm fairly certain Netflix is going to track your usage of their content. No sandboxing will stop that. Or are you asking something different?
The EME implementation in Chrome/Firefox is sandboxed so that the CDM Netflix uses does get a unique ID for the sandbox, but the sandbox ID is anonomized so that Netflix can not dig deeper than the sandbox to figure out who owns the computer that Chrome/Firefox is running on, or exactly which hardware you have.

The sandbox is only there for privacy in the practical sence that Netflix will for example not be able to access your web browser cookies or search history. Netflix will not be able to see what content you watch on HBO and vice versa, and nither Netflix or HBO will be able to check if you have any illegally (or legally) downloaded movies on your computer as they can not see anything outsiode their own sandbox.

Netflix as a service will still off-source force you to login so they know which user account is used and on the server-side they can see how many active sessions that user currently have. And as the EME sandbox is not a VPN service the IP-adress thay they stream to will tell Netflix roughly where you are located as long as your internet provider does not provide any location-anonymization service on its own.

Because of the sandbox Netflix will only be able to track what content you watch on Netflix, but that is because you are logged in to Netflix service with your Netflix user-account and stream the content from Netflix servers.

Due to F.U.D. (Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt ) I think most people against DRM fear that Netflix and other content providers can somehow spy on what other content users consume on the same computer which you watch Netflix on with DRM and then worse that Netflix could somehow even activly through DRM stop you from playing non-DRM content if they find something copyrighted on your computer.

I believe that the sandbox that EME implements was partially invented to relieve those types of fears.

Some of the FUD may come from the fact that Edge's DRM hooks deep into the Windows kernel. At the same time, Netflix rewards Microsoft by permitting up to 4k video (with the hardware DRM in a Kaby Lake or newer CPU) output. The Chrome and Firefox CDMs are due to them being detached from the browser and system restricted to 720p output (even though on my Kaby Lake system I can stream 8k video on YouTube in Chrome) - when chatting with Netflix they make the fraudulent claim that it is a lack of browser support that restricts the resolution.

Mozilla actually proposed a better idea, and with the increasing market for rackmount hardware encoders, could actually be practical - inject a digital watermark into the stream so anyone who would redistribute the content can be identified.
(This post was last modified: 2017-07-19 18:28 by BFeely.)
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justin150 Offline
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Post: #68
(2017-04-26 00:09)garretn Wrote:  I love this idea. I and I'm sure many others have gone through hoops to get this functionality elsewhere to an otherwise great Kodi experience.

Kodi is a media center, and these days netflix/prime video/drm content belongs in the media center too.

+1 This is really important to the long term use of Kodi by more than just us fanatics. A media centre by definition should be the centre for all my media. I want to access my Amazon Prime via Kodi (but possibly with a better interface than the Prime one - or at least a customisable one).

This will not prevent illegal add ons working, it is added functionality.
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