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Auto frame rate switching & dynamic range matching - 4K (HDR10) capable Hardware
(2018-06-04, 17:47)wesk05 Wrote:
(2018-06-04, 16:34)wrxtasy Wrote: When Oreo for the Shield comes out of its Preview / Beta / RC / Experience whatever testing program and is released to Joe Public Wink

(and @wesk05) has had a chance to Bench test it ! Wink 
Yep! it has to be rolled out to the public. Only then I can comment on it Wink 
Hi @wesk05  @wrxtasy  @timstephens24 
So can we say that also with latest Nvidia Shield firmware (Android 8 with API 26) the "Color space" switch is not supported?
In other words, if I want to set my Nvidia Shield to Rec. 2020 and I put in play with Kodi 18 a Rec. 709 video there will NOT be a Colorspace switch?

Thank you.
Kodi 18: Nvidia Shield TV (main device) and LibreELEC on Raspberry Pi 2 and Odroid C2
TV: Panasonic TX-55EZ950E (OLED)
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR509 (HDMI ARC)
Reply
(2018-11-05, 15:02)outcave Wrote:
(2018-06-04, 17:47)wesk05 Wrote:
(2018-06-04, 16:34)wrxtasy Wrote: When Oreo for the Shield comes out of its Preview / Beta / RC / Experience whatever testing program and is released to Joe Public Wink

(and @wesk05) has had a chance to Bench test it ! Wink 
Yep! it has to be rolled out to the public. Only then I can comment on it Wink  
Hi @wesk05  @wrxtasy  @timstephens24 
So can we say that also with latest Nvidia Shield firmware (Android 8 with API 26) the "Color space" switch is not supported?
In other words, if I want to set my Nvidia Shield to Rec. 2020 and I put in play with Kodi 18 a Rec. 709 video there will NOT be a Colorspace switch?

Thank you. 
 Last time I checked with Rec.2020 colour gamut selected in the Shield TV, this is a fixed setting and it won't switch when you play Rec.709 gamut material.  HOWEVER - the nVidia Shield TV does a pretty reasonable job of remapping Rec.709 content into the Rec.2020 colour gamut output - which is an equally valid approach to use.  Gamut switching isn't the only way to ensure you still see the right colours.
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@noggin is right, there's no colorspace switching on the NVIDIA Shield but there is a much better conversion that is occurring now. I can't tell a difference anymore, and previously I could notice the difference right off.
Denon X6500H 7.1.4 -> LG OLED65C6P
Main: Apple TV 4K with MrMC + Channels App w/ HDHomeRun Quatro
Other Kodi Devices: NVIDIA Shield Pro, NUC D54250WYK, Mi Box
MeCOOL M8S Pro, Raspberry Pi 3, Apple TV 4, SYNOLOGY DS1815+ | DX513
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So colorspace switching is no longer an issue on the shield?
Reply
(2018-11-06, 10:16)rwijnhov Wrote: So colorspace switching is no longer an issue on the shield?

Not sure what is going on here... (self read)

NVIDIA Shield (Oreo OS) (click):

Reply
One second...
Please do not confuse the "Colorspace switch" with the "Colorspace conversion".
Based on my test, now the Nvidia Shield is able ONLY to make Colorspace conversion.
What I want from Nvidia is the "Colorspace switch".

@timstephens24 and @noggin I can assure you that even if the Nvidia Shield Colorspace conversion done well I'm able to see chromatic differences on my Panasonic OLED TV between "pure" Rec. 709 and Rec. 709 converted to Rec. 2020 when I put in play Rec. 709 content.

I cannot see "washed color" problem as reported by various users in the Shield Forum, but I can assure you that a "pure" Rec. 709 is different from a Rec. 709 converted to Rec. 2020.

Anyway, someone know if Nvidia is working on Colorspace switch?

Thanks.
Kodi 18: Nvidia Shield TV (main device) and LibreELEC on Raspberry Pi 2 and Odroid C2
TV: Panasonic TX-55EZ950E (OLED)
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR509 (HDMI ARC)
Reply
(2018-11-06, 13:42)outcave Wrote: One second...
Please do not confuse the "Colorspace switch" with the "Colorspace conversion".
Based on my test, now the Nvidia Shield is able ONLY to make Colorspace conversion.
What I want from Nvidia is the "Colorspace switch".

@timstephens24 and @noggin I can assure you that even if the Nvidia Shield Colorspace conversion done well I'm able to see chromatic differences on my Panasonic OLED TV between "pure" Rec. 709 and Rec. 709 converted to Rec. 2020 when I put in play Rec. 709 content.

I cannot see "washed color" problem as reported by various users in the Shield Forum, but I can assure you that a "pure" Rec. 709 is different from a Rec. 709 converted to Rec. 2020.

Anyway, someone know if Nvidia is working on Colorspace switch?

Thanks.

If you are watching on an HDR Panasonic OLED then surely you are comparing the gamut conversion of your TV vs the gamut conversion of the Shield TV?  You may notice a difference - but I'm not sure how you are defining "pure"?

Have you done a full calibration of your OLED in SDR Rec 709 from a "pure" Rec 709 source (and what gamma did you calibrate to - 2.2, 2.4 or Rec.1886?), and how is your TV calibrated for a Rec 2020 input?
Reply
I'm definitely seeing washed out colors on my Optoma UHD51A w/UI and non-HDR content when Shield is set to Rec.2020. Some screenshots to explain...

This is the UI with Shield set to recommended 4K 59.940Hz YUV420 10-bit Rec.2020:
Image

And the UI with Shield forced to YUV420 10-bit Rec.709:
Image

So, when I watch say 'The Office' (U.S. version; never watched when it originally aired, enjoying it now), with Shield display setting at Rec.2020, colors look washed out. If I force Shield to Rec.709, it looks as it should... same as my Zidoo X9S and Tanix TX92 w/@wrxtasy's LE build.
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(2018-11-06, 13:42)outcave Wrote: @timstephens24 and @noggin I can assure you that even if the Nvidia Shield Colorspace conversion done well I'm able to see chromatic differences on my Panasonic OLED TV between "pure" Rec. 709 and Rec. 709 converted to Rec. 2020 when I put in play Rec. 709 content.

If you're seeing issues like I used to see, then the only solution right now is manually switching the color space like I used to.

(2018-11-06, 13:42)outcave Wrote: Anyway, someone know if Nvidia is working on Colorspace switch?

I saw this the other day:
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic...4/#5906914
Denon X6500H 7.1.4 -> LG OLED65C6P
Main: Apple TV 4K with MrMC + Channels App w/ HDHomeRun Quatro
Other Kodi Devices: NVIDIA Shield Pro, NUC D54250WYK, Mi Box
MeCOOL M8S Pro, Raspberry Pi 3, Apple TV 4, SYNOLOGY DS1815+ | DX513
Reply
How do i force seperate colorspace on the shield?
Reply
(2018-11-07, 16:01)rwijnhov Wrote: How do i force seperate colorspace on the shield?

I have no idea what "force seperate colorspace" means...
Denon X6500H 7.1.4 -> LG OLED65C6P
Main: Apple TV 4K with MrMC + Channels App w/ HDHomeRun Quatro
Other Kodi Devices: NVIDIA Shield Pro, NUC D54250WYK, Mi Box
MeCOOL M8S Pro, Raspberry Pi 3, Apple TV 4, SYNOLOGY DS1815+ | DX513
Reply
(2018-11-06, 13:42)outcave Wrote: @timstephens24 and @noggin I can assure you that even if the Nvidia Shield Colorspace conversion done well I'm able to see chromatic differences on my Panasonic OLED TV between "pure" Rec. 709 and Rec. 709 converted to Rec. 2020 when I put in play Rec. 709 content.
 BT.709 to BT.2020 gamut mapping on Shield accurately follows ITU BT.2087 recommendation. Any luminance difference that you see with Shield's mapped output on a display has to do with the display not applying BT.1886 gamma for BT.2020 SDR input.
In one of the posts here or on nVIDIA forum, I had provided a normal BT.709 HD color bar test pattern and a BT.2020 mapped test pattern to check whether the display is correctly processing BT.2020 SDR input.

@hdmkv does the color space (gamut) change automatically on your projector?
Reply
(2018-11-08, 08:11)wesk05 Wrote:
(2018-11-06, 13:42)outcave Wrote: @timstephens24 and @noggin I can assure you that even if the Nvidia Shield Colorspace conversion done well I'm able to see chromatic differences on my Panasonic OLED TV between "pure" Rec. 709 and Rec. 709 converted to Rec. 2020 when I put in play Rec. 709 content.
 BT.709 to BT.2020 gamut mapping on Shield accurately follows ITU BT.2087 recommendation. Any luminance difference that you see with Shield's mapped output on a display has to do with the display not applying BT.1886 gamma for BT.2020 SDR input.

That may be the case be there appears to be an ever increasing list of displays not applying BT.1886 gamma for BT.2020 SDR inputs and then producing unacceptable results for end users with mixed Rec.709 and BT.2020 content.

The question then becomes have NVIDIA chosen the wrong path to take ?

Should they be using Rec.709 <<-->> BT.2020 colorspace switching vs the current Oreo colorspace conversion ?

The old underlying v3.xx, modded Linux Kernel would not be helping either.

Reply
(2018-11-06, 21:42)noggin Wrote:
(2018-11-06, 13:42)outcave Wrote: One second...
Please do not confuse the "Colorspace switch" with the "Colorspace conversion".
Based on my test, now the Nvidia Shield is able ONLY to make Colorspace conversion.
What I want from Nvidia is the "Colorspace switch".

@timstephens24 and @noggin I can assure you that even if the Nvidia Shield Colorspace conversion done well I'm able to see chromatic differences on my Panasonic OLED TV between "pure" Rec. 709 and Rec. 709 converted to Rec. 2020 when I put in play Rec. 709 content.

I cannot see "washed color" problem as reported by various users in the Shield Forum, but I can assure you that a "pure" Rec. 709 is different from a Rec. 709 converted to Rec. 2020.

Anyway, someone know if Nvidia is working on Colorspace switch?

Thanks.

If you are watching on an HDR Panasonic OLED then surely you are comparing the gamut conversion of your TV vs the gamut conversion of the Shield TV?  You may notice a difference - but I'm not sure how you are defining "pure"?

Have you done a full calibration of your OLED in SDR Rec 709 from a "pure" Rec 709 source (and what gamma did you calibrate to - 2.2, 2.4 or Rec.1886?), and how is your TV calibrated for a Rec 2020 input?   
Do not confuse HDR and SDR with Rec. 2020 and Rec. 709: a Rec. 2020 signal can be SDR.
About my post: if I reproduce a 1080p Rec. 709 with TV internal media player (TV recognize Rec. 709 signal and auto set itself to Rec. 709) and I reproduce the same 1080p Rec. 709 with Kodi 18 with the Nvidia Shield set to Rec. 709 (TV recognize Rec. 709 signal and auto set itself to Rec. 709) I have EXACTLY the same color "effect".
Instead if I reproduce a 1080p Rec. 709 with Kodi 18 with the Nvidia Shield set to Rec. 2020 (TV recognize Rec. 2020 signal and auto set to itself Rec. 2020) the color "effect" is very good (good conversion) but it's not exactly the same compared to before.
For this reason, as anyone can image, conversion is one thing and switch is another thing. For sure better a switch then a conversion (also because recent TV will go to set automatically the Colorspace with the correct one by "reading" the signal).
Kodi 18: Nvidia Shield TV (main device) and LibreELEC on Raspberry Pi 2 and Odroid C2
TV: Panasonic TX-55EZ950E (OLED)
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR509 (HDMI ARC)
Reply
(2018-11-08, 08:11)wesk05 Wrote:
(2018-11-06, 13:42)outcave Wrote: @timstephens24 and @noggin I can assure you that even if the Nvidia Shield Colorspace conversion done well I'm able to see chromatic differences on my Panasonic OLED TV between "pure" Rec. 709 and Rec. 709 converted to Rec. 2020 when I put in play Rec. 709 content.
 BT.709 to BT.2020 gamut mapping on Shield accurately follows ITU BT.2087 recommendation. Any luminance difference that you see with Shield's mapped output on a display has to do with the display not applying BT.1886 gamma for BT.2020 SDR input.
In one of the posts here or on nVIDIA forum, I had provided a normal BT.709 HD color bar test pattern and a BT.2020 mapped test pattern to check whether the display is correctly processing BT.2020 SDR input.

@hdmkv does the color space (gamut) change automatically on your projector?  
Personally, on my Panasonic OLED TV, I don't have "luminance difference" and anyway I can set/change the gamma.
I talk only about VERY VERY LITTLE color differences due to Shield conversion.
Kodi 18: Nvidia Shield TV (main device) and LibreELEC on Raspberry Pi 2 and Odroid C2
TV: Panasonic TX-55EZ950E (OLED)
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR509 (HDMI ARC)
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