Solved External subtitle over UPnP
#16
(2019-05-12, 03:55)Klojum Wrote: No. You can also mux the subtitle into the video container file using tools like MKVtoolnix. Nothing will be hardcoded or transcoded. Kodi itself cannot transcode at all to begin with.

So, are you saying that Kodi "muxes" the external SRT (or other SUB files) into the video container, and that container is the one that is sent through DLNA, making the subtitles available as "native"?

I wonder why other media servers are not able (or don't know how to?) do the exact same thing...
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#17
(2019-05-12, 04:09)marcolopes Wrote: So, are you saying that Kodi "muxes" the external SRT (or other SUB files) into the video container

No, I said using tools like MKVtoolnix. Once the subtitle is added as a track to the video container file, then any decent video player should be able to use the subtitle as well. Also via UPnP/DLNA.
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#18
(2019-05-12, 04:49)Klojum Wrote:
(2019-05-12, 04:09)marcolopes Wrote: So, are you saying that Kodi "muxes" the external SRT (or other SUB files) into the video container

No, I said using tools like MKVtoolnix. Once the subtitle is added as a track to the video container file, then any decent video player should be able to use the subtitle as well. Also via UPnP/DLNA. 

So we are going around my doubt: How is Kodi able to STREAM external subtitles using DLNA? I have dozens and dozens of video files (mp4 and mkv) with NO embedded subs, and always use external SRT...

There is Kodi on one side, and a DLNA TV on the other. The external subtitles are available on the TV... How?
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#19
(2019-05-12, 09:22)marcolopes Wrote: How is Kodi able to STREAM external subtitles using DLNA?

Sorry, I must have initially misread your question.
Perhaps UPnP itself has evolved, or maybe the Kodi devs found a workaround solution?
(I'm not a Kodi developer myself).

I stopped using UPnP/DLNA years ago, partly because of it not supporting external subtitles.
A central SQL database and NFS (which supports external subs since forever) suits my needs just fine.
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#20
(2019-05-12, 10:25)Klojum Wrote:
(2019-05-12, 09:22)marcolopes Wrote: How is Kodi able to STREAM external subtitles using DLNA?

Sorry, I must have initially misread your question.
Perhaps UPnP itself has evolved, or maybe the Kodi devs found a workaround solution?
(I'm not a Kodi developer myself).

I stopped using UPnP/DLNA years ago, partly because of it not supporting external subtitles.
A central SQL database and NFS (which supports external subs since forever) suits my needs just fine. 

Exactly my point! I gave up on other media servers because of DLNA not supporting external subs (not even internal, AFAIK!). I'm puzzled to see Kodi is handling this...

Any DEVs could give some explanation on this?
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#21
Hi Guys,

This thread is marked solved but it's the most recent and I'm having a similar issue on a different setup. My apologies if it's not the right place or bad form.
Hoping to get a possible solution as everything's working great but can't get external subs (srt) to stream UPnP. Reviewed all the old threads and don't see solutions other than
reboots and the like. The feature seems to be a mature one at this point, maybe I'm missing something? This is a new install with several previous installs to tweak the setup.
I have a large World Cinema library, 80% subtitles .. so this is a big issue for me.

My setup:
Wired GB Lan/ Win File Server
Fresh install latest Kodi/OSMC Raspberry PI 3B+
Oppo BD103 BR Player / to media receiver

Mainly, I use Kodi as the GUI / Content library and serve the media via the UPnP service "play using" to take advantage of my Oppo's superior processing abilities .. what's nice is the Oppo has
an HDMI input so I can connect the PI directly .. hit "play using" and then control is handed to the Oppo (including the remote). Changing input source on the Oppo allows me to toggle back.
Everything works perfectly except external subs are not streamed / available. This is only the case with files pushed to the renderer. Muxed files work fine, and externals when I access files directly via the Kodi server or if I play directly from the PI.

This is not much different however than the Oppo's native ability which also connects directly to the server via smb. No issues with any of that but these are all flat file structures and the whole setup was to utilize Kodi's
library GUI and data displays. Ran in Debug mode and shows a clean hand off to the Oppo with nothing out of the ordinary. UPnP settings have 'look for external subtitles' checked, srt files are properly named
and in the movie folders, etc (also required by the Oppo). Muxing the subs is neither practical (1500+ films) nor desirable for me as I lose the Oppo's excellent subtitle customization features when subs are in the
container and since many of the subs were downloaded there can be minor sync issues that are easy to deal with on the fly but create major headaches to mux, etc.

One step away from Kodi Nirvana .. does anyone have any suggestions?
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#22
(2019-05-14, 19:06)bluebit Wrote: Hi Guys,

This thread is marked solved but it's the most recent and I'm having a similar issue on a different setup. My apologies if it's not the right place or bad form.
Hoping to get a possible solution as everything's working great but can't get external subs (srt) to stream UPnP. Reviewed all the old threads and don't see solutions other than
reboots and the like. The feature seems to be a mature one at this point, maybe I'm missing something? This is a new install with several previous installs to tweak the setup.
I have a large World Cinema library, 80% subtitles .. so this is a big issue for me.

My setup:
Wired GB Lan/ Win File Server
Fresh install latest Kodi/OSMC Raspberry PI 3B+
Oppo BD103 BR Player / to media receiver

Mainly, I use Kodi as the GUI / Content library and serve the media via the UPnP service "play using" to take advantage of my Oppo's superior processing abilities .. what's nice is the Oppo has
an HDMI input so I can connect the PI directly .. hit "play using" and then control is handed to the Oppo (including the remote). Changing input source on the Oppo allows me to toggle back.
Everything works perfectly except external subs are not streamed / available. This is only the case with files pushed to the renderer. Muxed files work fine, and externals when I access files directly via the Kodi server or if I play directly from the PI.

This is not much different however than the Oppo's native ability which also connects directly to the server via smb. No issues with any of that but these are all flat file structures and the whole setup was to utilize Kodi's
library GUI and data displays. Ran in Debug mode and shows a clean hand off to the Oppo with nothing out of the ordinary. UPnP settings have 'look for external subtitles' checked, srt files are properly named
and in the movie folders, etc (also required by the Oppo). Muxing the subs is neither practical (1500+ films) nor desirable for me as I lose the Oppo's excellent subtitle customization features when subs are in the
container and since many of the subs were downloaded there can be minor sync issues that are easy to deal with on the fly but create major headaches to mux, etc.

One step away from Kodi Nirvana .. does anyone have any suggestions?

As explained in this thread: 126521 (thread)
Quote:The problem can be twofold, depending on which server you use:
1) Your server might serve the subtitles in a way only Samsung systems understand
2) XBMC does not support external subtitles through UPnP

Serving external subtitles is not part of the UPnP specs, and different vendors have therefore started using different methods. There are basically 2(/3) ways that are being used at the moment. If you can, give Serviio a quick try (it's a painless server for a quick test). At least that server uses both methods so you can determine if it's a server issue.

I do not know XBMC well enough to know if it supports external subtitles through UPnP in the first place, but I assume it is. Not using it myself though.

I think the implementation takes advantage of DLNA extenstions that are proprietary of SAMSUNG and PANASONIC tvs (both different, i assume).

I have them in my Panasonic TV (external subtitles - ONE SRT only!) is always found, and i can control every aspect of it on the TV.

Maybe devs could give us more insight about this, because it still puzzles me.
Reply
#23
(2019-05-14, 19:23)marcolopes Wrote:
(2019-05-14, 19:06)bluebit Wrote: Hi Guys,

This thread is marked solved but it's the most recent and I'm having a similar issue on a different setup. My apologies if it's not the right place or bad form.
Hoping to get a possible solution as everything's working great but can't get external subs (srt) to stream UPnP. Reviewed all the old threads and don't see solutions other than
reboots and the like. The feature seems to be a mature one at this point, maybe I'm missing something? This is a new install with several previous installs to tweak the setup.
I have a large World Cinema library, 80% subtitles .. so this is a big issue for me.

My setup:
Wired GB Lan/ Win File Server
Fresh install latest Kodi/OSMC Raspberry PI 3B+
Oppo BD103 BR Player / to media receiver

Mainly, I use Kodi as the GUI / Content library and serve the media via the UPnP service "play using" to take advantage of my Oppo's superior processing abilities .. what's nice is the Oppo has
an HDMI input so I can connect the PI directly .. hit "play using" and then control is handed to the Oppo (including the remote). Changing input source on the Oppo allows me to toggle back.
Everything works perfectly except external subs are not streamed / available. This is only the case with files pushed to the renderer. Muxed files work fine, and externals when I access files directly via the Kodi server or if I play directly from the PI.

This is not much different however than the Oppo's native ability which also connects directly to the server via smb. No issues with any of that but these are all flat file structures and the whole setup was to utilize Kodi's
library GUI and data displays. Ran in Debug mode and shows a clean hand off to the Oppo with nothing out of the ordinary. UPnP settings have 'look for external subtitles' checked, srt files are properly named
and in the movie folders, etc (also required by the Oppo). Muxing the subs is neither practical (1500+ films) nor desirable for me as I lose the Oppo's excellent subtitle customization features when subs are in the
container and since many of the subs were downloaded there can be minor sync issues that are easy to deal with on the fly but create major headaches to mux, etc.

One step away from Kodi Nirvana .. does anyone have any suggestions?

As explained in this thread: 126521 (thread)
Quote:The problem can be twofold, depending on which server you use:
1) Your server might serve the subtitles in a way only Samsung systems understand
2) XBMC does not support external subtitles through UPnP

Serving external subtitles is not part of the UPnP specs, and different vendors have therefore started using different methods. There are basically 2(/3) ways that are being used at the moment. If you can, give Serviio a quick try (it's a painless server for a quick test). At least that server uses both methods so you can determine if it's a server issue.

I do not know XBMC well enough to know if it supports external subtitles through UPnP in the first place, but I assume it is. Not using it myself though.

I think the implementation takes advantage of DLNA extenstions that are proprietary of SAMSUNG and PANASONIC tvs (both different, i assume).

I have them in my Panasonic TV (external subtitles - ONE SRT only!) is always found, and i can control every aspect of it on the TV.

Maybe devs could give us more insight about this, because it still puzzles me.      

I agree. I think it would be helpful to have a Kodi Developer weigh in on exactly what the implementation is and what is or is not supported (or have this info updated to the wiki). That way we can at least understand if we should continue trouble shooting.  A cursory look at the DLNA and UPnP and guidelines/specs show that they don't even mention external subs only video/audio formats and containers. And obviously UPnP is also used for things other than video streaming. Add to this that the DLNA was dissolved in 2017 and the guidelines and 'certifications' are being supported via a third party it seems safe to assume no further development in that direction.

Kodi seems to show support for it since the last few years according the forums (alas, there's that setting option) but ...
is it a hit or miss implementation dependent on vendor specific hardware (hence working for some and not others) or some other answer?

If it is supported, albeit outside the dlna guidelines, it would be helpful to understand what the requisites are to get it working. Or consider it a non-trivial feature request to make it more robust and universal.
Either way, I'd like to know so I can stop climbing trees (and walls) if there's no possibility of finding any fruit ..
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