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4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations.
HDR on Windows is mostly consigned to video games, where Nvidia and AMD are providing the greatest support.

The lack of HDR computer monitors, especially on laptops, likely makes the current Windows HDR implementation “good enough” until HDR video on PC becomes more important.
Reply
(2019-08-19, 12:35)Warner306 Wrote: Auto resolution switching is the same as regular Kodi Windows. Auto color space switching is also possible via the Nvidia API for HDR passthrough and the correct MaxCLL and MaxFALL are sent provided you are using the right Nvidia video driver (more info on that here). 

Hi. Would this Kodi fork work under Windows 10 with an Intel 8th or 9th generation processor, like i5-8400H or i5-9400H (as long as I can add an nvidia gt1030 at least)? No way to work without the nvidia card, for the time being; is that right? Thank you.
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Yes, the CPU is not relevant, only the GPU drivers.
Reply
(2019-08-27, 21:43)Warner306 Wrote: Yes, the CPU is not relevant, only the GPU drivers.

Cool! Thank you, @Warner306.
Reply
@wrxtasy in terms of picture quality, from a 905x to a 922x is there a big diference on 1080p/2160p? (i know that the 905x at the moment doesn't passthrough max cll/fall.
and between the 922x vs the Apple 4k running mrmc?
did you test already the khadasvim3? what are your thoughts?
ps: please dont bring to the equation the upscaling. just a native resolution picture quality apreciation since you work with all of these boxes!
Best Regards to you all!
Reply
(2019-08-29, 14:05)bizuka Wrote: @wrxtasy in terms of picture quality, from a 905x to a 922x is there a big difference on 1080p/2160p? (i know that the 905x at the moment doesn't passthrough max cll/fall.
and between the 922x vs the Apple 4k running mrmc?
did you test already the khadasvim3? what are your thoughts?
ps: please dont bring to the equation the upscaling. just a native resolution picture quality appreciation since you work with all of these boxes!
Best Regards to you all!
Hi,

Not a BIG difference but some things are noticeable if you are looking for them.

Apple TV 4K = great, clean, picture quality from it's Imagination Tech PowerVR GPU - inc. Atmos & DV for Netflix, iTunes, likely Vudu & upcoming Apple TV+ service.
MrMC = CPU deinterlacing using full motion YADIF 2X.
mpeg2 SD TV can have some Kodi post processing added to it to clean up the picture output slightly.
Does not output Max CLL/FALL HDR Infoframe Metadata when using MrMC App.


S905X = basic PQ quality AML Image engine.
Hardware Deinterlacing is = to the Apple TV 4K.
No HDR Infoframe Metadata output, and generally 100Mbps Ethernet only.
Picture output in general looks a bit "noisier" vs the other two.

S922X = 9th Generation Advanced AMLogic TruLife Image Engine (click)
Excellent output picture quality.
I do notice, vs the above ->> better Anti-alising / de-jagging, slightly better quality hardware deinterlacing and overall a bit cleaner picture output - which I suspect is due to the AML's Noise reduction filters.
The ATV 4K and S922X picture output quality are very close.
The S922X's - ARM Mali G-52 GPU is excellent. Smooth and snappy.
Outputs correct Max CLL/FALL HDR Infoframe Metadata.



In general for SD quality content, there are easy Linux user adjustable HW/SW decode switches in Kodi Leia settings - and you can then apply - CPU Lanczsos3-optimised upscaling that sharpens CPU SW decoded SD picture outputs noticeable. Works fine on the fast S9xx devices running CE Kodi.

Ultimately auto Resolution switching, that outputs video content at it's native resolution will enable high quality 4K TV's to produce the best picture quality. Set and forget.



VIM3 vs ODROID N2 = slightly faster CPU clocking avail. (2.2GHz vs 2.0GHz).
Has some neural AI co-processing features that I doubt will ever be used in a media player.
Has included BT, AC WiFi & eMMC storage.
Personally WiFi is useless for a 4K high bitrate media player. BT USB dongles are dirt cheap anyway.
Has a poorer quality heatsink, that involves further DIY & is more expensive vs N2, plus does not have the N2's excellent inbuilt DAC.

VIM3 sure looks a bit funkier in it's edgy red/black case tho ! Wink

Honestly, I'm a bit tired of having to fit heatsinks & fans and worry about thermal issues with ARM based chipsets.
The ODROID guys with the excellent, already sorted out N2 passive heatsink solution have nailed it IMHO. Smile

W.

Reply
(2019-08-30, 06:02)wrxtasy Wrote:
(2019-08-29, 14:05)bizuka Wrote: @wrxtasy in terms of picture quality, from a 905x to a 922x is there a big difference on 1080p/2160p? (i know that the 905x at the moment doesn't passthrough max cll/fall.
and between the 922x vs the Apple 4k running mrmc?
did you test already the khadasvim3? what are your thoughts?
ps: please dont bring to the equation the upscaling. just a native resolution picture quality appreciation since you work with all of these boxes!
Best Regards to you all!
Hi,

Not a BIG difference but some things are noticeable if you are looking for them.

Apple TV 4K = great, clean, picture quality from it's Imagination Tech PowerVR GPU - inc. Atmos & DV for Netflix, iTunes, likely Vudu & upcoming Apple TV+ service.
MrMC = CPU deinterlacing using full motion YADIF 2X.
mpeg2 SD TV can have some Kodi post processing added to it to clean up the picture output slightly.
Does not output Max CLL/FALL HDR Infoframe Metadata when using MrMC App.


S905X = basic PQ quality AML Image engine.
Hardware Deinterlacing is = to the Apple TV 4K.
No HDR Infoframe Metadata output, and generally 100Mbps Ethernet only.
Picture output in general looks a bit "noisier" vs the other two.

S922X = 9th Generation Advanced AMLogic TruLife Image Engine (click)
Excellent output picture quality.
I do notice, vs the above ->> better Anti-alising / de-jagging, slightly better quality hardware deinterlacing and overall a bit cleaner picture output - which I suspect is due to the AML's Noise reduction filters.
The ATV 4K and S922X picture output quality are very close.
The S922X's - ARM Mali G-52 GPU is excellent. Smooth and snappy.
Outputs correct Max CLL/FALL HDR Infoframe Metadata.


In general for SD quality content, there are easy Linux user adjustable HW/SW decode switches in Kodi Leia settings - and you can then apply - CPU Lanczsos3-optimised upscaling that sharpens CPU SW decoded SD picture outputs noticeable. Works fine on the fast S9xx devices running CE Kodi.

Ultimately auto Resolution switching, that outputs video content at it's native resolution will enable high quality 4K TV's to produce the best picture quality. Set and forget.


VIM3 vs ODROID N2 = slightly faster CPU clocking avail. (2.2GHz vs 2.0GHz).
Has some neural AI co-processing features that I doubt will ever be used in a media player.
Has included BT, AC WiFi & eMMC storage.
Personally WiFi is useless for a 4K high bitrate media player. BT USB dongles are dirt cheap anyway.
Has a poorer quality heatsink, that involves further DIY & is more expensive vs N2, plus does not have the N2's excellent inbuilt DAC.

VIM3 sure looks a bit funkier in it's edgy red/black case tho ! Wink

Honestly, I'm a bit tired of having to fit heatsinks & fans and worry about thermal issues with ARM based chipsets.
The ODROID guys with the excellent, already sorted out N2 passive heatsink solution have nailed it IMHO. Smile

W. 
wow! many many thanks @wrxtasy i had an old s905x i was very very disappointed with the output picture quality a lot of banding and crushed colors, changed to a rock64 (rk3328) wich is a lot better, it processes the image probably like my tv, with less grain
what are your thoughts about the rk3328 and rk3399 socs? versus each other, should we see some minor improvements on the imaging processing? and versus the s922x?
sorry to bother you but i need to buy a new board and have a lot of doubts, rk3399 (rock64pro) or s922x (odroid n2)
best regards, and thank you for you patitente!
Reply
So in short, the Apple TV for watching Dolby Vision material and a S922X in all other cases?
Is Dolby Vision technically possible on a S922X and just not implemented, or is it impossible?
Reply
(2019-08-31, 16:23)Sjors125 Wrote: Is Dolby Vision technically possible on a S922X and just not implemented, or is it impossible?

Amlogic has several versions of S922X with different SKUs. DV is possible only for a more expensive SKUs that have a DV license.
Reply
(2019-08-31, 21:57)smp1 Wrote:
(2019-08-31, 16:23)Sjors125 Wrote: Is Dolby Vision technically possible on a S922X and just not implemented, or is it impossible?

Amlogic has several versions of S922X with different SKUs. DV is possible only for a more expensive SKUs that have a DV license.  
So it keeps being a puzzle.
What are the right SKUs?

I am still trying to find out what mediaplayer to use for my HDR/4k tv. I have an Eminent EM7680 running on CoreElec, but I have trouble getting it to work with my shared db. I also have a Minix Neo U9-H, which seems to be a good choice.

I'm thinking about buying an Odroid N2, but only if that is necessary ofcourse.
Reply
(2019-08-31, 16:23)Sjors125 Wrote: So in short, the Apple TV for watching Dolby Vision material and a S922X in all other cases?
Is Dolby Vision technically possible on a S922X and just not implemented, or is it impossible?

Whilst Chipsets may or may not be DolbyVision capable and licensed - media player software (excluding Netflix, iTunes, VUDU) - for seamless DolbyVision Dual Layer Rips video playback is not. (ie. HDR10 base layer + seperate DV enhancement layer)

All sorts of DV Rip / file manipulation is needed first to produce Single Layer Profile 5 files, see HERE (click)
Even then only the Infuse App (click) on the ATV 4K seems to playback such Muxed and manipulated DV files properly.

As far a I know, that is it as far as DV playback has come on any mainstream media player software.

Reply
(2019-07-26, 14:43)hdmkv Wrote: And worth adding Zidoo Z-series (Z9S & Z10):
  • Kodi doesn't run natively, but Zidoo's fork ZDMC Leia & Krypton-based are both available
  • ZDMC (Kodi fork) is mostly used a front-end to push media playback to external (native) media player app
  • 4K HDR with Max CLL/FALL info passthrough
  • HDR to SDR mapping
  • Fully supports HD audio (including ATMOS & DTS:X) and LPCM
  • Best player for full 3D + 4K support in one
  • Deinterlacing for OTA TV has never been a strong performer on this platform
  • Only SD quality Netflix, Amazon, etc.

Thx. added to post #1.

Questions:

1) Apart from the major additions - >> extra USB 3.0, SATA ports + MIMO WiFi, what extra do you get regarding the Z9S vs cheaper X9S ?

2) Is Firmware for Z9S compatible with X9S ?
(CPU & GPU look near identical)

3) Should I combine the two X9S & Z9S/Z10 postings on page #1 if 3D, 4K HDR & HD audio support & functionality is the same ?

Looks like Zidoo Firmware has matured nicely. Smile

Reply
(2019-09-02, 06:43)wrxtasy Wrote:
(2019-07-26, 14:43)hdmkv Wrote: And worth adding Zidoo Z-series (Z9S & Z10):
  • Kodi doesn't run natively, but Zidoo's fork ZDMC Leia & Krypton-based are both available
  • ZDMC (Kodi fork) is mostly used a front-end to push media playback to external (native) media player app
  • 4K HDR with Max CLL/FALL info passthrough
  • HDR to SDR mapping
  • Fully supports HD audio (including ATMOS & DTS:X) and LPCM
  • Best player for full 3D + 4K support in one
  • Deinterlacing for OTA TV has never been a strong performer on this platform
  • Only SD quality Netflix, Amazon, etc.
 

Thx. added to post #1.

Questions:

1) Apart from the major additions - >> extra USB 3.0, SATA ports + MIMO WiFi, what extra do you get regarding the Z9S vs cheaper X9S ?

2) Is Firmware for Z9S compatible with X9S ?
(CPU & GPU look near identical)

3) Should I combine the two X9S & Z9S/Z10 postings on page #1 if 3D, 4K HDR & HD audio support & functionality is the same ?

Looks like Zidoo Firmware has matured nicely. Smile  

Firmware is not compatible.
X9S = RTD1295
Z9S = RTD1296
The MaxFALL/CLL is only present on Z9S.
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To add to what @djnice noted, other differences:
- Android 7 on Z-series vs. 6 on X-series
- ROM is about 58% faster
- 2x USB 3.0 ports vs. one; and 2x SATA vs. one
- Same wired performance, but WiFi is about 31% faster
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So @wrxtasy Which mediaplayer would you buy for 4k HDR playback (excluding DV)?

I already own the Eminent EM7680 which has a AMLogic S905X-H SoC (based on 4 Cortex-A53 cores, and a Mali 450 MP3 GPU) running on CoreElec. It should be able to support 4k 60 Hz, BD-ISO, DVD-ISO, h.265, HEVC, VP9, HDR, HDR-10, Dolby True HD, Dolby Atmos, DTS-HD and DTS-HD MA.

and I have a Minix Neo U9-H which has an 8 core AMLogic based on the same Cortex-A53 and a Mali 820 MP3 GPU. It is running Android right now, as I want to be able to use Netflix and some other tv apps.

Do they suffice for 4k HDR with the correct Max CLL/FALL?
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