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4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations.
#46
(2018-07-07, 10:23)Mount81 Wrote: wrxtasy LE 8.2.4.2: There's no auto freque switching in some cases at all, and have problem with the playback with lots of the the common test videos. +The subtitle stutter bug.

And also generally, that the user experience and reliability is somewhat bellow of that what LE achieved on the S905X line. 

Don't misunderstand my skepticism here, and take as an assault against the S912 at all. I'm personally still also in the info collecting stage, but there are too many complains
Well I'm going to disagree again.

I acknowledge there is a really minor subtitle stutter the very first time Subtitles appear with LE 8.2.4.x on S912 LE releases vs S905X. It's fine thereafter with LE 8.2.4.x
I watch content with Subtitles all the time. It really is a Non issue.

As for No auto Freq switching, that is completely incorrect info.
Same goes for test Videos where frankly a bunch of newbie users do not know what they are talking about.
Poorly or incorrectly encoded video will produce poor video playback results. So will incorrectly configured Kodi and incorrect TV settings.

If there are issues with video playback with LE on the S912, the exact same problem will show up on the rest of the S9xx LE 8.2.4.x boxes because they are using the SAME Linux Kernel with the SAME set of Kodi patches.

Do not confuse the Kodi interface being drawn by the S912's GPU and it's Hybrid Android/Linux drivers with Video decoding done by the Video engine part of the GPU. Those two function need to be separated.

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#47
(2018-07-07, 10:41)noggin Wrote:
(2018-07-07, 02:07)Sam.Nazarko Wrote: I have a patch. 

There is some discussion on OSMC forums about iPlayer and 4K HLG streams. Getting iPlayer add-on to play those streams seems tricky; but when manually played back things worked as expected.

Sam

(edit: fix typo)
 Thanks Sam - will have a look.  Beta version of www iPlayer add-on works fine in Leia on nVidia Shield TV running Android and Apollo Lake running a recent Milhouse LibreElec build (via a DP1.2->HDMI 2.0 adaptor) though the latter is only 8-bit output depth and is doing a Rec 2020 -> Rec 709 conversion to output Rec 709 by the look of it.  Neither raise the HLG flag so I manually force my TV into HLG mode for the nVidia Shield TV.  

I've an HDFury Vertex now (thanks for the recommendation); which makes InfoFrame tweaking astoundingly more simple.
​​​​​​It's easy to signal HLG manually (i.e. via sysfs), but I need to work on EOTF signalling from Kodi.

I'll look at this when back from my trip. 

Sam
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#48
(2018-07-09, 01:13)Sam.Nazarko Wrote:
(2018-07-07, 10:41)noggin Wrote:
(2018-07-07, 02:07)Sam.Nazarko Wrote: I have a patch. 

There is some discussion on OSMC forums about iPlayer and 4K HLG streams. Getting iPlayer add-on to play those streams seems tricky; but when manually played back things worked as expected.

Sam

(edit: fix typo)
 Thanks Sam - will have a look.  Beta version of www iPlayer add-on works fine in Leia on nVidia Shield TV running Android and Apollo Lake running a recent Milhouse LibreElec build (via a DP1.2->HDMI 2.0 adaptor) though the latter is only 8-bit output depth and is doing a Rec 2020 -> Rec 709 conversion to output Rec 709 by the look of it.  Neither raise the HLG flag so I manually force my TV into HLG mode for the nVidia Shield TV.    

I've an HDFury Vertex now (thanks for the recommendation); which makes InfoFrame tweaking astoundingly more simple.
​​​​​​It's easy to signal HLG manually (i.e. via sysfs), but I need to work on EOTF signalling from Kodi.

I'll look at this when back from my trip. 

Sam  

Thanks Sam - do you know what is happening wrt Rec 2020 vs Rec 709 gamut?  It looks as if Rec 2020 iPlayer streams (ignoring the EOTF) are being output flagged as Rec 709.  Do you think this is via a gamut conversion, or do you think in this case the content is  still in Rec 2020 gamut but the HDMI flag for Rec 709 is being sent instead?

(I'm not just talking about RGB/YCbCr colourspace conversion being different - as 709 and 2020 have different conversion matrices - I'm also talking about the gamut differences - as Rec 2020 and Rec 709 use different primaries to allow Rec 2020 to have a wider colour gamut. You can map Rec 709 into Rec 2020 losslessly, but Rec 2020 remapped to Rec 709 requires some compromises (as the gamut is narrower)  )
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#49
@wrxtasy I think you should lower the GPU requirements for Intel to Nvidia GT 1030 2GB GDDR5 with Win10 only (don't know about win7).

I bought one and had no problem in enabling HDR playback via OS HDR setting with Kodi & dsplayer and separately using madvr for on the fly HDR change with Kodi & dsplayer + madvr. Played a whole host of 4k HDR rips (remuxes) with a range or average bit rates (45-85 Mbps) and different frame rates (23.976 and 59.94).

The video quality (with a lot of long back to back testing and getting a second opinion) was no different to built-in TV apps (via USB HDD and Plex). I want to emphasis playback was smooth even at 59.94 fps and peaking at 112 Mbps.

Easiest setup for 4k HDR playback is use Win10 and turn HDR & WCG on. Kodi 17.6 with dsplayer worked as expected. Downside is SDR content isn't as good nor if you use PC for other activities.

Option 2 is leave Win10 HDR setting 'off', and use madvr to handle the switch. I got the same playback using default settings (ie let madvr handle HDR pass through and *no* other madvr enhancements).

GPU was around 50% throughout and CPU was just tickled.

Setup:
LG OLED TV
GT 1030 2GB GDDR5
Win10 (Apr 2018) [New Install]
Madvr v0.92.14 (default settings - the same as using reset settings batch file)
Nvidia drivers 398.36 (2018-06-26)

If you're setting display refresh rate in Windows its 23Hz or 59Hz (round down), otherwise image will look choppy.

Source material:
4k blu-ray rips (remuxed in mkv), HEVC, 10 bit, HDR-10, 23.976 - 59.94 fps, average bit rates of 45 Mbps to 85 Mps.
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#50
(2018-07-09, 14:23)fswings Wrote: @wrxtasy I think you should lower the GPU requirements for Intel to Nvidia GT 1030 2GB GDDR5 with Win10 only (don't know about win7).
Thx.
4G GB GDDR VRAM might have been left in there for 4K HDR Netflix I believe. Not sure if that is still the case or if anyone has tested.

I will lower it to 2GB with a note that 4GB may be required for Netflix.

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#51
I'm not sure yet, I would like to reproduce streams through iPlayer WWW, as this seems the most likely method in which a user will access these streams at this time.

Will Wimbledon / World Cup material remain available for a while on iPlayer for testing?

Sam
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#52
(2018-07-09, 16:30)wrxtasy Wrote: 4G GB GDDR VRAM might have been left in there for 4K HDR Netflix I believe. Not sure if that is still the case or if anyone has tested.

I will lower it to 2GB with a note that 4GB may be required for Netflix.

The 3GB limit is required for Netflix HDR on Nvidia GPU:
https://help.netflix.com/en/node/55763

4GB is minimum recommended for some madvr enhancements and 4k play back. I think this is where this came from.

Perhaps add some more detail to the requirements along the lines of:

Nvidia 2GB GDDR5 1030: 4k HDR blu ray remuxes up to 60fps

Nvidia >3 GB 1050, 1060, 1070 for Netflix 4k with HDR

Etc.

I also want to say, I only tested one card, so not sure if it reads across to the AMD equivalent.
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#53
(2018-07-09, 17:24)Sam.Nazarko Wrote: I'm not sure yet, I would like to reproduce streams through iPlayer WWW, as this seems the most likely method in which a user will access these streams at this time.

Will Wimbledon / World Cup material remain available for a while on iPlayer for testing?

Sam
 
Wimbledon and World Cup UHD HLG are live streams only - no on-demand / live rewind etc. UHD HLG is available yet. However one of the streams there is a 24/7 HLG stream of an FA Cup qualification at the moment.
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#54
Why does the OP's suggestions states that:
Quote:Intel Windows 7+ and a Nvidia or AMD GPU with 2GB of VRAM and HEVC hardware decoding 

Did he tried to point out that the CPU must be Intel in this case? Cause I wouldn't think that would be necessary at all, and an AMD CPU would do just as well... If he means that to the IGP, than it's been phrased rather misunderstandable. 

Anyways an news on how Raven Ridge APUs Vega IGPs perform with 4K / HDR playback?
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#55
Good question for AMD APU.

I hesitate between zidoo x20 and htpc with amd APU 

APU can play HDR , 4k files ? Have hdr to sdr conversion ? 

Thank
-LG 55EG910V (OLED HDR Full HD 3D)/ Dreamscreen hdmi /Onkyo TX-NR474 + Creative S750 /INWIN Chopin/AMD 2400G/16Go/Win10 
-Zidoo X9S / xbox one s for rooms
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#56
(2018-07-27, 10:49)kalima Wrote: Good question for AMD APU.

I hesitate between zidoo x20 and htpc with amd APU 

APU can play HDR , 4k files ? Have hdr to sdr conversion ? 

Thank
Here's an AVS Thread that I've made, dedicated to the same questions.
My conclusions so far -only based on the calculating opinions and SOME real user experience reports-, that it will do 4K / HDR fine up to 30fps for sure, but without any PQ enhancements with MadVR, or just with very minimal extra settings. The another -jet unanswered- mean and deal breaker dilemma would be the capability of the APUs for issue free and good quality SD, HD, and FHD upscaling to 4K res. Specially in the case of high framerate videos, like 50i / 50p and 60i / 60p. As can be read in this Thread, upscaling needs the most horsepower from the GPU when MadVR is concerned. The main scpetic opinions are based on the fact that these IGPs lack the access for any dedicated (and fast) VRAM, which would be important to MadVR to perform acceptable in these tasks. But again: not so much and not so sure real user experiences have been posted so far, to make any strict and excluding conclusion just yet IMO. 

And now my current questions regarding the general HTPC + MadVR Topic:

I've already posted these question in the AVS thread, but would like to ask them here as well, as the more relevant answers, the closer I could get to a relevant conclusion:

It sounds bad, that the AMD RX cards have problems with NGU. What does it mean in practice, in what cases is this seriously perceptible i.e. in the case of an 8GB RX 570? Will it affect much the SD (interlaced DVD) and 720p/50i and 1080/50i to 4K upscaling? And are the Vega cards completely free from this issue? (This last is rather just a curious question as they prices are rather in horror category and definitely out of the question for the budget I've planned.)

As I would rather choose an AMD card for my forthcoming HTPC, as I've read some other sites that they can do much better cadence perfect playback (playback at the more precisely correct Hz depending on the video's fps) and have generally less issues with Windows/drivers and HDR than the Nvidia cards do.

And another (repeated) question: will I have any relevant benefits with MadVR if I choose 8GB VRAM card compared to a 4GB one (SD, HD high framerate upscaling to 4K and/or general PQ enhancements, etc..) ?

Thanks for the replies!
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#57
No, you won’t benefit from more or faster VRAM.

The RX 580 isn’t that bad for madVR. You can upscale at high quality with some adjustment to chroma upscaling and maybe dithering. You will be able to use medium settings for 4K content, which is more than enough. If you can get a GTX 1060 for the same money, it is a better card overall. The frame cadence issue is not that important and not really noticeable. If it really bothered you or you actually noticed, you could create a custom resolution in madVR.

madVR can be overkill for just getting the color to the screen. But it does do a great job of upscaling anything. There is a lot of other processing available for things such as improving bad or average sources. You can get the most dramatic improvement to SDR content by buying a colorimeter and creating a 3D LUT display calibration. This can be like getting a new display.

You can’t actually use madVR with Kodi without an external player, though. There is DSPlayer 17.6, but there is no active developer, so there is no guarantee of a v18.

If you do buy a graphics card for madVR, buy one with a quiet fan. It uses the GPU like a video game, which can get noisy with a budget card. Look up a review of the model you want with a noise test. The gaming models can be very silent. I’ve owned one card that was not and hated it.
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#58
Does the new Vero 4K plus does the Autoswitching to 4:4:4, 10bit Chroma and bit depth better?
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#59
Not yet, but I hope to resume work on this next week. HDR still needs to be manually enabled in Kodi settings or via SSH. 
Any improvements we make will benefit the old and new model.

Cheers

Sam
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#60
Have been eyeing the Vero 4k for a couple of months and saw the new version last night. Regarding this HDR10 issue - just want to make sure I understand it correctly so that I can make an informed decision about the purchase-decision. Am I correct in understanding the issue as below:

1. It can be fixed using command line via SSH.
2. The 'fix' does not survive a reboot and the same cmd/ssh fix will need to be reapplied after restarting the device.

Thanks,
MR
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