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4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations.
(2019-09-09, 09:14)noggin Wrote: I can't watch MotionFlow because of the number of spurious artefacts it introduces
I set Smoothness to 2 (out of 5/Max) (plus Film mode/CineMotion to High) for the X1 Extreme based BRAVIA X900F and it is perfectly fine for me.

X1 Ultimate based BRAVIAs only have 3 notches for Smoothness IIRC. Dunno how Motionflow behaves there.
Sony BRAVIA KD-65XF9005 (FW V6.6520 / Android TV Oreo 8.0)
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(2019-09-09, 09:19)CiNcH Wrote:
(2019-09-09, 09:14)noggin Wrote: I can't watch MotionFlow because of the number of spurious artefacts it introduces
I set Smoothness to 2 (out of 5/Max) (plus Film mode/CineMotion to High) for the X1 Extreme based BRAVIA X900F and it is perfectly fine for me.

X1 Ultimate based BRAVIAs only have 3 notches for Smoothness IIRC. Dunno how Motionflow behaves there.   
I have an XF900 (which is the UK version of the X900F)

I've yet to find a single MotionFlow mode other than 'Off' that doesn't introduce additional artefacts, particularly on fast moving, complex content.  It may be that I am more susceptible to spotting artefacts, and I definitely don't want my TV to introduce yet more.

I know other people are happy with them - but I also know a lot of people who can't stand the additional issues.
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(2019-02-17, 12:37)wrxtasy Wrote: Apple TV 4K - NO for Infuse and MrMC Apps - but i believe it works for other DolbyVision capable Apps like Netflix and iTunes. 

Nope, after some test  Apple TV 4k output wrong  MaxCLL/FALL.

TEST Netflix  MaxCLL/FALL output:
Panasonic 820
Roma: Max CLL/Max FALL 5904 / 253 nits
Travelers s03e01: Max CLL/Max 1297 / 565 nits

Apple TV 4k
Roma: Max CLL 4000/Max FaLL 1000
Travelers s03e01:Max CLL 4000/Max FaLL 1000
LG OLED 55E8 - M9702(oppo 203) - Zidoo X9S
AndroidPremiumPlayer blog - HI - Frequency Switcher 
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Hey Wratsy i was looking at a review of the Fire Tv cube second generation, o you know if when playing locally stored 4k mkv off it if it would pass correct MaxCLL/FALL HDR metadata, if so i quiet fancy it, thanks.
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(2019-10-15, 22:33)jaxter Wrote: Hey Wrxtasy i was looking at a review of the Fire Tv cube second generation, o you know if when playing locally stored 4k mkv off it if it would pass correct MaxCLL/FALL HDR metadata, if so i quiet fancy it, thanks.

Hi,

The AMLogic S922Z equipped 2019 FireTV Cube will be running an AMLogic modded v4.9 Linux Kernel under its Android based FireOS - so YES it will pass correct MaxCLL/FALL HDR metadata, same as all other S905X2 / S922X / A311D chipset equipped devices.

With AMLogic's top Spec chipset under the hood and an Excellent ARM-Mali G52 GPU the 2019 Cube will be a snappy fast, powerful device.

When you have a fast 6 Core CPU, even content like old 10bit h264 aka Hi10p Anime, mpeg2, mpeg4 and VC-1 that may have playback issues with Android/FireOS - can be CPU Software decoded after tweaking Kodi's decodefilter.xml Smile

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(2019-10-16, 02:08)wrxtasy Wrote:
(2019-10-15, 22:33)jaxter Wrote: Hey Wrxtasy i was looking at a review of the Fire Tv cube second generation, o you know if when playing locally stored 4k mkv off it if it would pass correct MaxCLL/FALL HDR metadata, if so i quiet fancy it, thanks.

Hi,

The AMLogic S922Z equipped 2019 FireTV Cube will be running an AMLogic modded v4.9 Linux Kernel under its Android based FireOS - so YES it will pass correct MaxCLL/FALL HDR metadata, same as all other S905X2 / S922X / A311D chipset equipped devices.

With AMLogic's top Spec chipset under the hood and an Excellent ARM-Mali G52 GPU the 2019 Cube will be a snappy fast, powerful device.

When you have a fast 6 Core CPU, even content like old 10bit h264 aka Hi10p Anime, mpeg2, mpeg4 and VC-1 that may have playback issues with Android/FireOS - can be CPU Software decoded after tweaking Kodi's decodefilter.xml Smile 
Oh wow thats some pretty sweet hardware. Its a shame these things can't get custom roms. Or at least a better launcher (last I checked it was pretty hacked together to do).
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Wink 
(2019-10-16, 02:08)wrxtasy Wrote:
(2019-10-15, 22:33)jaxter Wrote: Hey Wrxtasy i was looking at a review of the Fire Tv cube second generation, o you know if when playing locally stored 4k mkv off it if it would pass correct MaxCLL/FALL HDR metadata, if so i quiet fancy it, thanks.

Hi,

The AMLogic S922Z equipped 2019 FireTV Cube will be running an AMLogic modded v4.9 Linux Kernel under its Android based FireOS - so YES it will pass correct MaxCLL/FALL HDR metadata, same as all other S905X2 / S922X / A311D chipset equipped devices.

With AMLogic's top Spec chipset under the hood and an Excellent ARM-Mali G52 GPU the 2019 Cube will be a snappy fast, powerful device.

When you have a fast 6 Core CPU, even content like old 10bit h264 aka Hi10p Anime, mpeg2, mpeg4 and VC-1 that may have playback issues with Android/FireOS - can be CPU Software decoded after tweaking Kodi's decodefilter.xml Smile 
Thanks for taking the time to give a clear and informative answer, i had a Tanix T92 on your advice but got rid now that Fandangos kodi hdr build lets me play all my 4k hdr content, i have to mention that movies look way better on the ryzen 2400g/fandangos kodi hdr build on my benq W2700 projector then they ever did through the Tanix.
I would guess using my very limited knowledge (mostly gleaned from Wratsy ) this is because it is now passing the correct MaxCLL/FALL HDR metadata, it really does make a huge difference to the picture. If only the Ryzen had the certifcation to do 4k hdr netfliix it would be a perfect little htpc solution, as it is i have to switch my gaming pc on with the nvidia 1080ti for 4k hdr, atmos on the projector the cube looks a good alternative.
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Hi, sorry if this is the wrong place to ask this, but is HDR enabled on Kodi 18.4 on the Nvidia Shield 2017?

I've been reading in some places that it is, but when I watch hdr content via Plex on my Shield, my tv (lg b8) displays an HDR icon. I don't get this icon when playing hdr content via Kodi.
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Yes, HDR works perfectly with Kodi 18.x and Shield 2017. No HDR10+ nor Dolby Vision.
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anyone know if the pi4 can play 4k hevc and also HDR yet?

and which ram config of pi4 is recommended?
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(2019-10-30, 01:47)madmax2 Wrote: anyone know if the pi4 can play 4k hevc and also HDR yet?

The Pi 4B can play 4K HEVC 8-bit and 10-bit content (but there are still some caveats as some content shows stuttering - but not all. This could be bitrate or toolset related - I'm not sure). It cannot play 4K h.264 stuff.

Whilst the 4B can replay 4K HEVC 10-bit HDR content - it can't output it in a particularly useful format - and can't output HDR over HDMI yet. So you can play it, but you wouldn't want to watch it.

ALSO - it appears the Pi 4B may never be able to output 4:2:0 mode video (the vertical chroma subsampling is a stumbling block) - so for 2160p50/p60 HDR output you will need a 12-bit 4:2:2 compatible display (sometimes described as 'Enhanced HDMI' by some manufacturers) Quite a number of displays (and some AVRs) don't support 4:2:2 2160p50/p60 12-bit. (There is no 10-bit variant of this HDMI output standard)

Quote:and which ram config of pi4 is recommended?

AIUI 2GB is fine for 4K HEVC playback (there have been suggestions that 1GB may be a little bit marginal, and 4GB is overkill)
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(2019-10-30, 01:47)madmax2 Wrote: anyone know if the pi4 can play 4k hevc and also HDR yet?

No to HDR, it's needs a stable v5.3+ liniux Kernel and then Kodi v19 Matrix support as well.
As per the Link in Post #1 of this thread, you are likely looking at approx. mid to late 2020 for all that to be stable & sorted.

There are faster and more powerful 4K HDR Kodi Leia options available these days. See Post #1 of this thread.

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Tone Mapping Overview (click)

A/V Pro - Audio / Video Glossary (click)

Quote:To understand the benefits of this new feature, you have to understand the basics of tone mapping. HDR content allows you to have much brighter highlights than before, and many of those highlights are brighter than a TV can display.
HDR content has a peak light level, which the TV uses to determine how to display those highlights. The most common peak highlight levels (MaxCLL or Maximum Content Light Level) are typically 1000, 4000, and 10,000 nits. An OLED can typically display up to 700-750 nits, while the best LCDs can display around 2000 nits when calibrated. But based on the HDR data, there are highlights even brighter than this, and that’s where tone mapping comes in.

The tone mapping in a display adjusts how highlights too bright for the TV are shown. The simplest way is to clip highlights. With this method on an OLED TV, it displays everything up to 700 nits, and then everything above that is displayed as if it was 700 nits. This gives you the maximum possible light output but it also loses you the most detail as those bright objects, like clouds or snow, are now just white with no texture or details visible.

In simple terms...

Quote:The MaxCLL and MaxFALL metadata included in the HDR10 media profile allows consumer displays to adjust the entire video stream’s brightness to match their own display limits.

If you want to watch HDR10 content and see the picture details in both the highlights and shadows properly then MaxCLL/FALL becomes really important for Auto Tone Mapping projectors (click), that do not output exceptionally bright pictures to begin.

Additional Important Info regarding - MaxCLL/FALL HDR metadata:

After much reading - It appears different Brands of OLED TV use MaxCLL/FALL HDR metadata differently when Tone Mapping...

Quote:With static metadata HDR10 and HLG, manufacturers can adapt their tone mapping to fit the content to their TVs' capabilities and, as such, they all do things slightly differently with Sony going for consistent average picture levels, while Philips push for brighter punch and clipping and LG use a mixture of most approaches. Added to this is Dynamic Tone Mapping, not to be confused with dynamic metadata. Manufacturers like Sony, LG and Panasonic employ their own approaches to this on their OLED displays to maximise the performance scene by scene.

2019 Panasonic GZ
Quote:Panasonic adjusts the tone mapping for static metadata based on the MaxCLL but also through its own dynamic tone mapping that tries to produce an image which retains image brightness and preserves specular highlights without clipping the detail or dimming the image overall. You can switch this on within the menu system and it works in a far more relaxed and subtle way when compared to the similar feature used by LG.

Sony A9G
Quote:The Sony AG9 tone maps the same way with ALL static MaxCLL data it receives, so it doesn’t change its dynamic tone mapping for 1000, 4000 or 10000nits, rather it seems to work out its mapping on a scene by scene basis, where it tries to retain as much detail in the blacks, mid-tones and specular highlights before clipping..Brighter objects are more likely to be clipped by this approach, which retains the average picture level (APL) without the image getting too dark. However, it does track on the darker side of the industry standard PQ EOTF target and images are slightly darker when compared side by side with other OLEDs.

Philips 903
Quote:We looked at the PQ EOTF results first and sent the (Philips) OLED+903 both 1000 nit and 4000 nit image metadata and it didn’t change its tone mapping between them. This is unusual as most manufacturers have slightly different maps to try and preserve highlights in 4000 nit content.

Philips 854
Quote:The Philips 854 does not change its measured tone map based on static metadata, instead, it has a fixed response curve as seen in our graph here with HDR Perfect switched off...
The HDR Movie preset does default to HDR Perfect Minimum which is the best catch-all setting for 1000 and 4000 nit content.

LG C9
Quote:LG 2019 OLED TV's feature a Dynamic Tone Mapping algorithm (Picture -> Picture Mode - Setting -> Expert Controls).
When Dynamic Tone Mapping is enabled 'On', the HDR10 tone-mapping curve will be dynamically generated after analysis of signal peak and histogram information on a frame by frame basis.




Correct - MaxCLL/FALL HDR Infoframe data output ?

Intel / AMD X86_64 - YES if using a custom Windows Kodi v19 build from 345566 (thread) & 4K capable Nvidia GPU

ODROID N2 - YES - see 2862766 (post)

AMLogic S922X / A311D / S905X2 / S905D3 / S905X3 / S905Y2 devices - YES

Amazon 2019 FireTV Cube - YES - very likely due to AML S922Z chipset

NVIDIA Shield - YES - see 2805253 (post)

HiMedia Q10 Pro - YES looks like. See HERE (click)

Zidoo X series - Maybe, looking at the FW 2.1.4 (click) release. Read from that post onwards.

Zidoo Z series - YES, see 2882052 (post)

Amazon FireTV 4K Stick - Maybe if someone analyses HDMI Infoframe data.

Intel / AMD X86_64 - NO for Linux Kodi, No for Windows Kodi Leia.

RPi4b - NO - not until Kodi v19 M arrives, likely late 2020 - see the OSMC forum (click) for more info.

Rockchip devices - NO - see THIS post (click)

Vero 4K+ and older AMLogic S9xx chipset media players - NO

Apple TV 4K - NO for Infuse and MrMC Apps.

W. Smile

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I want to use my PC to play on my TV:
-4k HDR+ files in MKV format
-with Dolby Atmos or DTS:X audio playback
-While being connected by HDMI
-with MPC-HC or otherwise VLC as player
-with accurate image quality/tone mapping

To achieve this I'm certain I need a new GPU. On the internet I find so many (often contradicting) things about what windows and certain GPU's can and can't do.
So I hoped one of you knowledgeable guys was able to help me out by answering these simple questions:

If I get a GTX1660 or RX590, will I be able to achieve these goals? (overpowered for the job, I know, but also used for gaming)
If both work, is either one of them better for this specific job?
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See Kodi Matrix 19.0 HDR Edition.

If that doesn't interest you, simply installing madVR and using MPC will also give you native 4K UHD HDR passthrough with correct metadata and the ability to stream lossless audio.
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4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations.3.679