4K video playback - Kodi 17 vs 18 - Extreme difference (Some good, some bad) - Why?
#1
Hi all,

I tried playing 4K movies on my new Samsung 75" NU8000 TV with Kodi 17 vs Kodi 18 thinking "meh, probably won't be much difference".
There is a HUGE difference. The problem is - It's inconsistent.

More specifically, I played 2 movies:
Terminator II - Judgement Day:
On Kodi 17.6 Krypton (From windows store): Doesn't look all that good. The colors are, I don't know, faded?
On Kodi 18 preAlpha2 release: Looks AMAZING, vivid, incredible!

Here are screenshots for comparison:

Image

Image


The Matrix:
On Kodi 17.6 Krypton (From windows store): Looks fine, maybe a bit faded.
On Kodi 18 preAlpha2 release: Looks HORRIBLE! The colors are just bad, and way too dark. Unwatchable!
Image

Image
So my question is WHY? What is this huge difference? And can you give me some advice on how to tweak everything so I can watch it all like Terminator II looks on Kodi 18 preAlpha2 release (If that's even possible). I don't want to have to check 10 different players and 2 versions of Kodi every time I wanna watch a movie in the best way possible Smile 

As required from every post, here is my System Information
Following are the logs:
Kodi 17.6 - The Matrix
Kodi 18 - The Matrix

Kodi 17.6 - Terminator II​​​
Kodi 18 - Terminator II

Terminator II - MediaInfo
The Matrix - MediaInfo

Please tell me if there is any additional information I can provide! I really want to solve this and I think it will help others in the future.

Thanks a lot in advance!!
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#2
MPEG-H HEVC Video / 46998 kbps / 2160p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 Profile 5.1 High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / HDR / BT.2020
Kodi 17.6 has no functionality to handle HDR videos.
Kodi 18 Alpha is still a work in progress, things like HDR can break.
Why there are such differences, I don't know. The video experts will have to dig into that.
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#3
Kodi on Windows 10 with proper SDR/HDR your best option is Kodi DSPlayer with MadVR - https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=223175

I've disabled automatic GPU driver updates in Windows and went back to 385.28 version of the driver. You can keep HDR in Windows turned off and let MadVR handle resolution, frame rate and color space using Nvidia's API.
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#4
Thanks for your replies guys !! 
Quote:I've disabled automatic GPU driver updates in Windows and went back to 385.28 version of the driver.

Why did you do that? Is there some problem with newer drivers?
Quote:You can keep HDR in Windows turned off

I'll get into disabling HDR for Windows 10, I'm assuming it's fairly easy to do?

I'm familiar with Kodi DSPlayer with MadVR, although using it before didn't show any difference compared to Kodi 17.6. Aside from turning off Windows 10 HDR, is there anything else important I should configure in Kodi DSPlayer?
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#5
Kodi 18 includes HDR to SDR tone mapping which accounts for the big difference for the Terminator movie as that looks like the HDR was left intact in the encode. The Matrix however may have already had the tone mapping done when being encoded, not sure if that is a correct thing to do while leaving colourspace reported as BT2020, so when we apply tone mapping it makes the picture darker than it should be.
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#6
(2018-07-01, 21:56)Nom1fan Wrote: Hi all,

I tried playing 4K movies on my new Samsung 75" NU8000 TV with Kodi 17 vs Kodi 18 thinking "meh, probably won't be much difference".
There is a HUGE difference. The problem is - It's inconsistent.

More specifically, I played 2 movies:
Terminator II - Judgement Day:
On Kodi 17.6 Krypton (From windows store): Doesn't look all that good. The colors are, I don't know, faded?
On Kodi 18 preAlpha2 release: Looks AMAZING, vivid, incredible!

Here are screenshots for comparison:

ImageImageThe Matrix:
On Kodi 17.6 Krypton (From windows store): Looks fine, maybe a bit faded.
On Kodi 18 preAlpha2 release: Looks HORRIBLE! The colors are just bad, and way too dark. Unwatchable!
ImageImage
So my question is WHY? What is this huge difference? And can you give me some advice on how to tweak everything so I can watch it all like Terminator II looks on Kodi 18 preAlpha2 release (If that's even possible). I don't want to have to check 10 different players and 2 versions of Kodi every time I wanna watch a movie in the best way possible Smile 

As required from every post, here is my System Information
Following are the logs:
Kodi 17.6 - The MatrixKodi 18 - The MatrixKodi 17.6 - Terminator II​​​Kodi 18 - Terminator IITerminator II - MediaInfoThe Matrix - MediaInfo

Please tell me if there is any additional information I can provide! I really want to solve this and I think it will help others in the future.

Thanks a lot in advance!!
 
There is a setting. While watching this "too dark" movie, please open the video settings and tune the Tonemap Parameter - too dark means: increase it a bit.
First decide what functions / features you expect from a system. Then decide for the hardware. Don't waste your money on crap.
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#7
(2018-07-02, 08:11)Nom1fan Wrote: Why did you do that? Is there some problem with newer drivers?

I'll get into disabling HDR for Windows 10, I'm assuming it's fairly easy to do?

I'm familiar with Kodi DSPlayer with MadVR, although using it before didn't show any difference compared to Kodi 17.6. Aside from turning off Windows 10 HDR, is there anything else important I should configure in Kodi DSPlayer? 
They were the last drivers that worked flawlessly for me. I keep HDR disabled in Windows 10 since 99% of my content is 1080p or lower res 8bit. 

Before your TV will properly display 4K HDR10 content HDMI UHD Color needs to be enabled in the TV's settings and MadVR needs to be configured to pass HDR metadata through to the display. Check that thread for info on how to configure audio which will also be important.
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#8
Well I'm back with updates and results:

It seems when I first posted here my setup was not HDR compliant (You can see this by going to my System info above:  HDR Support: Not Supported, Monitor Capabilities: HDR Not Supported (BT2020RGB BT2020YCC ).
That was due to the fact that I connected my PC via HDMI to my Pioneer receiver, and the receiver was connected to the TV via HDMI output.
So it turns out my receiver can passthrough 4K 60fps but not HDR.

So I changed my setup and now everything is connected directly to the TV, and the TV is connected to the receiver via Optical Cable (SPDIF).
I also had to turn on HDR in the TV settings for each HDMI input (PC/Playstation4)

After doing all that, I had hoped the above results will change for the better. Unfortunately, they did not.
Everything basically remained the same. I fiddled with Windows HDR on/off, didn't change much either.

Eventually I went on ahead to try configuring DSPlayer + madVR. It took me a whole day more or less. The guide is huge and there are a million configurations.
Now the above "The Matrix" file works perfectly well in DSPlayer + madVR.
Unfortunately, The same "The Terminator II - Judgment Day" file from above plays *horrible*(!) in DSPlayer + madVR.
Essentially, it is unplayable. Stutters very hard and there is no sound.

So after all this I'm still stuck with 3 Kodi players, each playing some movies great and some horribly Sad
Please help! Why is this so complicated and how come I am the only one experiencing it?
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#9
Your GTX 1050 does not have enough RAM to decode HDR at only 2GB whereas a GTX 1050Ti has ample RAM with 4GB.
HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1809/MPC-BE\HC PDVD18 DVDFab3 KODI 18/960 4GB/RGB 4:4:4/8bit Desktop mode=60Hz /10/12bit Video mode=Matched Refresh rates/65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D
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#10
Come on ... that's not true ... You can calculate that yourself ...
First decide what functions / features you expect from a system. Then decide for the hardware. Don't waste your money on crap.
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#11
Let's calculate together:

Resolution: 3840x2160
Bit-Depth: 10 stored in 16 bit aligned data types
Format: NV12 with 10 bit precission YUV420
Assumption: Maximum Number of reference frames: 16
Two additional renderbuffers: 2 (not needed by decoder btw.)

(3840*2160*2*1.5*18) / (1024 * 1024) ~ 432 MB ...

Edit: And this was for Level 6.1 - for 5.1 (just 6 reference frames), it would be 1/3 e.g. 144 MB
First decide what functions / features you expect from a system. Then decide for the hardware. Don't waste your money on crap.
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#12
(2018-07-06, 18:22)Nom1fan Wrote: "The Matrix" file works perfectly well in DSPlayer + madVR.
Unfortunately, The same "The Terminator II - Judgment Day" file from above plays *horrible*(!) in DSPlayer + madVR.
Essentially, it is unplayable. Stutters very hard and there is no sound.
This sounds like lack of RAM to me even if madVR is relaxed.  I would test exactly the same in Windows Explorer using an MPC player and see if DSP is the culprit or the RAM.  I assume the two files are not subpar rips either.
HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1809/MPC-BE\HC PDVD18 DVDFab3 KODI 18/960 4GB/RGB 4:4:4/8bit Desktop mode=60Hz /10/12bit Video mode=Matched Refresh rates/65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D
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#13
Quote:Your GTX 1050 does not have enough RAM to decode HDR at only 2GB whereas a GTX 1050Ti has ample RAM with 4GB.

The strange thing is that the same video file works perfectly on Kodi 18, and with more beautiful colors too (see screenshot above).
So I can't see how the blame is on the hardware, unless I'm missing something.
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#14
(2018-07-06, 19:37)fritsch Wrote: Let's calculate together:

Resolution: 3840x2160
Bit-Depth: 10 stored in 16 bit aligned data types
Format: NV12 with 10 bit precission YUV420
Assumption: Maximum Number of reference frames: 16
Two additional renderbuffers: 2 (not needed by decoder btw.)

(3840*2160*2*1.5*18) / (1024 * 1024) ~ 432 MB ...

Edit: And this was for Level 6.1 - for 5.1 (just 6 reference frames), it would be 1/3 e.g. 144 MB
 So any idea what's wrong with my setup? If it isn't hardware, then what's wrong with the software?
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#15
First don't use dsplayer but kodi's internal player. Play the file and manually tune the tone map parameter in the video osd, please.
First decide what functions / features you expect from a system. Then decide for the hardware. Don't waste your money on crap.
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4K video playback - Kodi 17 vs 18 - Extreme difference (Some good, some bad) - Why?51