[ozkhan1]

Yes that is correct.

NO lossless Bluray quality Atmos audio is possible with the ATV 4K no matter what App you use.

You do get lossy Atmos from Netflix, Prime Video, iTunes, ATV+ streaming however.

As a side note as well the ATV 4K is the only media streamer platform currently getting Atmos audio from the new Disney+ App.

Get an ODROID N2 if you want Kodi Leia lossless Atmos audio passthrough support.

What!!! Wait a minute .. all these streamers keep advertising they support Atmos so the truth is it’s basically a washed down version?

So what’s the point? Are there any devices out there that do lossless Atmos then? That’s ridiculous.. I had given up on discs and don’t want to go that route again. I use streamers only now. I was thinking about getting an Atmos setup on BF, but if ATV doesn’t support full fledged Atmos, what’s the point?

So what options do I have for Netflix full Atmos? Once again, I know this ain’t Kodi related and I might be going off topic here but appreciate the expert feedback..
cheers!

[wrxtasy]

Hi @wrxtasy 

So I bought the Minix U9 for the 4K, HDR and DTS-HD formats. It plays them without any major problems but I looking to upgrade for more "plug and play" system.

You could run CoreELEC Kodi on the U9 from a Samsung EVO / Sandisk Class 10 U1 microSDHC.
It will be fast & snappy. Especially if you give the GPU MHz a little tweak in Kodi > System > AMLogic settings.
It’s very Plug n Play.

Would you say that the ATV 4k player is a good choice if Im running the U9 at the moment?

ATV 4K will be superior vs anything else for polished slick Apps, especially 4K HDR DolbyVision Atmos - paid for, copy protected video streaming Apps.
Apple are online streaming 4K HDR DV content from ATV+ and their iTunes library using the highest video bitrate encoding in the industry.
ATV 4K will be inferior for Kodi.
It’s small, slippery, fragile, remote touchpad will likely drive you a bit nuts. A Fintie silicon remote case is mandatory.

CoreELEC Kodi on the U9 works great, it even auto updates.
The MINIX A2 lite remote is excellent for Kodi use.

4K and HDR is important, the HD formats not very much, ofcourse its nice that it says DTS-HD or TRUEHD on the receiver but I wont hear any difference if it is PCM or not i belive since I read above that is is lossless decoded?

All audio with the ATV 4K can be decoded into multichannel (2.0 / 5.1 / 7.1) LPCM, and in 99.9% of cases it will be lossless decoding for no loss in audio quality. For >48kHz FLAC or the other rare Bluray audio > 48kHz, audio will be resampled and output at 48kHz.

EAC3/DD+ with Atmos is decoded to LPCM and output as Dolby Atmos in Dolby MAT 2.0:
https://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/wwwd...ations.pdf

Bluray quality lossless TrueHD/Atmos and DTS:X will lose the 3D object Metadata, with the TrueHD and DTS-HD parts of that audio being losslessly decoded into LPCM.

The other option is selecting in tvOS settings - everything be remixed into highly compatible 2.0 or 5.1 AC3/DD for use with older audio receivers or pass thru a TV and out again via HDMI/SPDIF ARC. That works well for legacy AC3/DD only audio receiver compatibility.

So summing up, all the majority of ATV 4K users are really losing is Bluray quality lossless Atmos or DTS:X - 3D object metadata.

[timstephens24]

So what options do I have for Netflix full Atmos?

The Atmos you get from streaming services is DD+ Atmos. There’s no TrueHD Atmos from any streaming services. There’s no option because Netflix doesn’t have any videos with it.

[wrxtasy]

What!!! Wait a minute .. all these streamers keep advertising they support Atmos so the truth is it’s basically a washed down version?

So what’s the point? Are there any devices out there that do lossless Atmos then? That’s ridiculous.. I had given up on discs and don’t want to go that route again. I use streamers only now. I was thinking about getting an Atmos setup on BF, but if ATV doesn’t support full fledged Atmos, what’s the point?

So what options do I have for Netflix full Atmos? Once again, I know this ain’t Kodi related and I might be going off topic here but appreciate the expert feedback..
cheers!

There are NONE. Does not matter which hardware platform you use.

All copy protected, paid for, online Apps streaming services — >> Netflix, Disney, ATV+, iTunes etc will only use lossy Atmos streaming.

I don’t think any of those video services wants to waste data bandwidth online streaming any type of lossless HD audio.

A LOT more people have Plug n Play, 4K HDR DV displays vs those with full blown Atmos home theatre audio setups.

[antony23]

It seems the only device that has kodi and netflix 4k drm app, with all hd audio passtrough is the new shield, but it lacks auto frame rate matching on netflix and its AI upscaling is limited to 30fps.

As i understood, it's better buy a good smart tv for drm apps, and use an odroid n2/amlogic+coreelec for kodi/audio passtrough usage.
One device for both does not exist! Really weird...

[wrxtasy]

If you do your research carefully you will find premium (Sony, LG, Panasonic) 2019 4K HDR DV TV’s will All be doing some sort of AI upscaling via image analysis.

And most of them are packing pretty powerful image processing chipsets for doing just that.
They are going to do a better job image processing and upscaling, with no limitations vs any relatively cheap externally HDMI connected media player.

Guys like Sony and Panasonic have been in the video content production and processing business for decades now, they prioritise getting the best possible picture outputs possible from their products.

At a common 3+ metre viewing distance from the display, it’s got to the stage now that I have a hard time visually seeing differences between mid/high bitrate 720/1080p content upscaled to 4K by my 2019 65” Panasonic GZ OLED vs watching actual 4K content on the same display.

---

A lot of complaints you see from All Android TV users is the blurry looking Leanback user interface if they set the device to output 4K. That is because Google only use a 1080 GUI for Android TV, the media player has to upscale it to 4K. AI upscaling does Not work with that.

A sharper looking 4K GUI is the first thing everyone notices when using a device like the ATV 4K because Apple use an actual 4K GUI.

In the end different users all have different priorities, for me personally picture quality is a BIG deal.

[noggin]

Guys like Sony and Panasonic have been in the video content production and processing business for decades now, they prioritise getting the best possible picture outputs possible from their products.

Yes - though you will not see any of this AI-style upscaling on any decent Sony or Panasonic broadcast or post production display.  (And Eizo and Dolby have a chunk of that market alongside Sony.  Panasonic are basically nowhere in the broadcast display market in my region)

The LCD and OLED displays you see used in broadcast control rooms are as neutral as possible - to show you in as clear a detail as possible the content you are creating. Almost all the processing you see on modern TVs is absent in displays used in this context (no Motion Flow/Natural Motion, Noise Reduction, Contrast Enhancement, Live Colour, AI scaling etc.) These techniques are really limited to their consumer display products, though Sony will, no doubt, use some high-end upscaling technology in their 2K->4K up-res processing used to create UHD Blu-rays from 2K masters etc. 

You will find a choice of different deinterlacing algorithm on some high-end Sony OLEDs - so you can trade off picture quality vs latency/delay - as low latency picture monitoring is vital in some scenarios (such as judging lip-sync)

[ozkhan1]

Well, thanks for the valuable 411, guys. I am guessing it’s not worth investing in an Atmos setup for me at this time then. Good old garden variety lpcm surround sound using Apple TV will have to do for now.
It’s disappointing but makes sense how lossless Atmos over the pipe could be so taxing on most users internet services.

[timstephens24]

Well, thanks for the valuable 411, guys. I am guessing it’s not worth investing in an Atmos setup for me at this time then. Good old garden variety lpcm surround sound using Apple TV will have to do for now.
It’s disappointing but makes sense how lossless Atmos over the pipe could be so taxing on most users internet services.

Just because it’s lossy doesn’t mean it’s not good. I have a 7.1.4 setup and it sounds great.

[noggin]

Well, thanks for the valuable 411, guys. I am guessing it’s not worth investing in an Atmos setup for me at this time then. Good old garden variety lpcm surround sound using Apple TV will have to do for now.
It’s disappointing but makes sense how lossless Atmos over the pipe could be so taxing on most users internet services.

The question is whether you can hear the difference between DD+ with Atmos and Dolby True HD with Atmos.  Good quality lossy compression is still a good quality source - and if the height information is important to you in the movie watching experience (or sports viewing experience if your sport provider has Atmos on live sports, like some UK broadcasters do) then it may still be worth it.

There is no way that a full-fat Dolby True HD + Atmos track will be provided by a streaming service - that would require a higher bitrate for the audio alone, than streaming HD video with DD+ audio.

[otava5]

Does on Apple 4K work automatic framerate with HBO GO ? Mi Box S - NO :-( ......I am EU user ...Thnx

[djnice]

Does on Apple 4K work automatic framerate with HBO GO ? Mi Box S - NO :-( ......I am EU user ...Thnx

Yes, switch to 50 Hz, but:
- Netflix 24.000 fps movies played at 23.976 (framedrop on every 41s)
- HDR Metadatas are not correct

[shrugg1e]

One question: Is it right, that all content will played (upscale) at 4K2K? Also 1080p or 720p files.

[wrxtasy]

One question: Is it right, that all content will played (upscale) at 4K2K? Also 1080p or 720p files.

Yes, like any media player device - if you have the ATV 4K configured to output 2160p/4K then all non 4K content will be upscaled by the media player itself.

The ATV 4K has pretty decent picture upscaling of non 4K content that works without limitations no matter what App you use.

It also uses an actual 4K Graphic User Interface that looks nice and sharp and clean.

[shrugg1e]

Ok and thx for the fast reply!

I come from Xiaomi Mi Box 3 and the ATV is a whole new Level of Mediaplayer.
You promised not too much :-)

But im still confused a little bit, beacause MrMc looks more different to Kodi than i expected.
Maybe you could help me: https://mrmc.tv/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5400