[skunkos]

Hello fellaz. I went through "what box to choose" threads here and on LibreElec forums and it did not really help to make final decision. I need to make my decision, here are what I expect the chosen SBC to perform:

SOME INFO ABOUT USE CASE ETC.:

• I have 4k-SDR screen (Philips BDM4350UC).
  
• I am quite advanced Linux user/programmer.
  
• I do not like Android.
  
• Budget is about 100-120 USD.
  

MUST HAVEs:

• fluid and non-problematic playback of all major 720p/1080p movies (including x264, x265, x265/10bit, this is absolutely most important "must have"),
  
• overally good HW stability (no crazy temperature overheatings, sudden HW failures etc.),
  
• good availability of solid/stable Linux-based distributions with KODI (no Android-only SBCs/boxes),
  
• well-documented way of flashing OSes to SBC storage,
  
• well-known and supported architecture (ARM, x64),
  
• fluid 4k60Hz playback of SDR files.
  

NICE TO HAVEs:

• solid playback of 4k60Hz HDR files or (preferably, because of my screen?) working HDR -> SDR conversion (right now I do not have any 4k content in my library but I would like to try some - as I noticed it seems that majority of UDH content is rather HDR, so it seems that SDR-only 4k support is useless?),
  
• form-factor compatibility with Rpi, including power source, cases, etc. (I can buy Rpi parts - case etc. - for cheap in local stores in Czech Republic or via aliexpress),
  
• good seller based in EU (to avoid tax/customs expenses).
  

SBCs I think about:

Odroid-C2

• 4k SDR-only,
  
• nice and quite mature support in LibreElec (HW acceleration so far via closed driver but open driver should be merged to mainline soon AFAIK, this concerns all Amlogic devices),
  
• certain compatibility with Rpi cases,
  
• good, solid piece of HW, no real HW issues (according to their forums).
  

LePotato

• nice HW support for video codecs, including 4k with HDR10,
  
• nice compatibility with Rpi stuff,
  
• not so mature support for LibreElec (is 1080p playback non-problematic?),
  
• 100mbit ethernet only but not a big deal for "normal" bitrate 4k content,
  
• questionable compatibility with some SD cards (will probably order eMMC anyway, not sure about this tho).
  

Rock64

• quite nice price,
  
• 4k with HDR10,
  
• quite some HW problems (saw some topics on their forums, with not-well-working stuff questions etc.),
  
• not that great situation with mainlining their code?,
  
• no Rpi compatibility - mainly cases?
  
• quite some problems reported with their seller services
  

At this point, it seems that C2 is very matured product as for SW support and overall HW quality. It however lacks HDR and HDR/SDR conversion (right?). But I would be able to sacrifice 4k HDR support for hassle-free/quality 1080p experience any day! LePotato seems to me to be a good compromise between current state and expected maturing in the future. Is it stable as for 1080p LibreElec playback at this point? Is it expected to become a lot stabler with mainline kernels in the future? It seems like a good piece of HW to me. And finally R64 which actually looks nice to me, they have quite a bunch of prebuilt OS images available, but their quality is questioned in their forums...

Hard decision. Can you help? Maybe I missed some other SBC to make my decision easier, not sure.

[buzzqw]

Hi

look here https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=252916
and btw i suggest Vero4k+

BHH

[Rubytux]

Hi, Aliexpress has an official Khadas store, it sells a Vim 1 Basic 8GB/2GB(s905x) for $59.99, it includes the board, a case and the USB Type C power cable. You only need a power supply(i use One from a Intel PC Stick) and Libre Elec can be controlled vía the remote of the TV.

There is also a Khadas Remote.

There are plenty of Docs, mostly in English. It has official Libre Elec 9 support. Khadas also supports the board(just added a Volumio image). Don't buy the Vim 2 since it has S912 and may be abandoned after Kodi 19.

The Le Potato+accesories are almost as expensive as this kit. Khadas also has an Amazon USA store, may be you can find it in your country

[skunkos]

Hi

look here https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=252916
and btw i suggest Vero4k+

BHH

 Yes, I went through the thread and many others. While Vero 4k+ looks really solid (and i added it to my list), i have several points about it:

• is bit more expensive than i'd like
  
• is is currently sold out
  

But it certainly became one of my contenders.

[skunkos]

Hi, Aliexpress has an official Khadas store, it sells a Vim 1 Basic 8GB/2GB(s905x) for $59.99, it includes the board, a case and the USB Type C power cable. You only need a power supply(i use One from a Intel PC Stick) and Libre Elec can be controlled vía the remote of the TV.

There is also a Khadas Remote.

There are plenty of Docs, mostly in English. It has official Libre Elec 9 support. Khadas also supports the board(just added a Volumio image). Don't buy the Vim 2 since it has S912 and may be abandoned after Kodi 19.

The Le Potato+accesories are almost as expensive as this kit. Khadas also has an Amazon USA store, may be you can find it in your country

Wow, thank you for the hint, I bumped into Vim1 some days ago too, for some reason skipped it. Now checking it, seems nice, good pricing. It seems to be almost identical to Lepotato, is there any particular advantage of Vim1 except some slightly lower price?

Looking at their docs right now...

EDIT: Well, it seems that Vim1 Basic is pretty identical to LePotato, except it seems to be a bit cheaper, because you can have basically the same set like 15+USD cheaper, which is nice.

[Luke Cage]

You didn't mention audio quality. But if it is (or might become) a deciding factor, you might want to read this : https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid...pid2536929

[skunkos]

Well, AUDIO is not that important, but just asking, does the limitation stand even when audio is passed via HDMI to TV and TV plays the audio?

[Luke Cage]

That's up to your preference for audio quality :

For digital audio, if an HDMI device has audio, it is required to implement the baseline format: stereo (uncompressed) PCM. Other formats are optional, with HDMI allowing up to 8 channels of uncompressed audio at sample sizes of 16-bit, 20-bit and 24-bit, with sample rates of 32 kHz, 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 96 kHz, 176.4 kHz and 192 kHz.)
— https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

[skunkos]

I see, how does Vim1 Pro differs from Vim1 Basic Only eMMC size and some wifi stuff?

EDIT: Nevermind, found the info.

[wrxtasy]

When Overclocked and running from eMMC, the (non HDR) ODROID C2 will be the fastest AMLogic device.
It's the only AML board you can CPU Overclock and run in a stable manner because it already includes a decent Heatsink.

You need a decent Heatsink with these AML boards if you want to tweak and push them.

The C2's Included Gigabit Ethetnet also makes everything snappier.

Cheap USB power cables can be used. You can run power from a USB phone charger or TV with all these AML boards.

RPi cases are not compatible with the C2. The HDMI port is in a slightly different spot.

HDR > SDR tone mapping is not that good when viewing HDR content on a SDR only TV with HDR capable AML devices. Buy a HDR TV if you want great results.

4K HDR Bluray Rips networked streaming playback needs a device with Gigabit Ethernet.

Do NOT use Infra Red remotes on these devices if you want a snappy setup.
Buy a USB mini dongle RF Wireless remote, there are some about for $10



Rockchip devices are not there yet for comprehensive LibreELEC media player usage vs LE or CE Kodi running on AMLogic hardware. Deinterlacing for example does not work on Rockchip devices, and there are other niggles and limitations I've forgotten.
I believe the mainline Linux Kernel Rockchip uses does not have HDR support yet. Not quite sure.

There is a LOT of Linux Kernel and AMLogic specific Kodi code sharing happening between Vero 4K and LE / CE media players.

W.

[Sam.Nazarko]

Hi

look here https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=252916
and btw i suggest Vero4k+

BHH

 Yes, I went through the thread and many others. While Vero 4k+ looks really solid (and i added it to my list), i have several points about it:

• is bit more expensive than i'd like
  
• is is currently sold out
  

But it certainly became one of my contenders.    

The Vero 4K + is still available locally in CZ: http://rpishop.cz/komplety/1013-osmc-vero-4k.html 
Vero 4K + should be back in stock in a couple of weeks. 

Cheers

Sam

[Luke Cage]

When Overclocked and running from eMMC, the (non HDR) ODROID C2 will be the fastest AMLogic device.
It's the only AML board you can CPU Overclock and run in a stable manner because it already includes a decent Heatsink.

You need a decent Heatsink with these AML boards if you want to tweak and push them.

W.

The 4K HDMI output shows gorgeous desktop screen on 3840 x 2160 UHD resolution.
But the rendering speed is not good due to the limited performance.

4K video playback on the Android OS is quite stable and fast for 4K/HEVC playback on a real 4K display.
— https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-c2/

Does overclocking improve performance to a point that the quoted text about desktop performance rendering speed is not applicable anymore ?
 

We guarantee the production of C2 to the end of 2019, but expect to continue production long after.
— https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-c2/

I do not know what this means for OS updates/upgrades. It may be relevant.

[wrxtasy]

Does overclocking improve performance to a point that the quoted text about desktop performance rendering speed is not applicable anymore ?

No demanding, complex, python scripted - Kodi Skin rendering performance is superior on devices like Intel NUC's, the Shield and the Apple TV 4K (MrMC App).
Skin responsiveness will improve a bit but other more powerful x86_64 / ARM devices will be superior.
 

We guarantee the production of C2 to the end of 2019, but expect to continue production long after.
— https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-c2/
I do not know what this means for OS updates/upgrades. It may be relevant.

All AMLogic S9xx boards will be moving to a v4.x or greater mainline Linux Kernel by the time Kodi / LibreELEC v19 M hits.
LE / Linux support for such a release on these type of ARM boards is already well under way with LibreELEC and other Linux developers.

[skunkos]

Cheap USB power cables can be used. You can run power from a USB phone charger or TV with all these AML boards.

RPi cases are not compatible with the C2. The HDMI port is in a slightly different spot.

HDR > SDR tone mapping is not that good when viewing HDR content on a SDR only TV with HDR capable AML devices. Buy a HDR TV if you want great results.

4K HDR Bluray Rips networked streaming playback needs a device with Gigabit Ethernet.

Do NOT use Infra Red remotes on these devices if you want a snappy setup.
Buy a USB mini dongle RF Wireless remote, there are some about for $10
 

Ad USB power: I see, I checked manual of my "TV" and it offers USB3.0 charging slot with "up to 1.5A" which I suppose should be enough for C2, but I still might be going with classic power adapter.

Ad Rpi cases: I plan to case which has "open" sides, therefore it should work with C2 as it has Rpi compatible mounting holes AFAIK.
Ad HDR stuff: OK. I do not plan to have many HDR collection at all, I plan to stick with high quality 1080p content for a loooong time. Plus, I wonť be buying a real "TV" (screen with DVB tuner), because I would have to pay fees (which I do not want) and I do not watch "TV" content anyway, it's just trash, I only watch some documentaries, maybe some news channels (which are also offered for free kodi addon in my country), and some movies from time to time. That said, the offer of big HDR monitors is not that great (they are all "TVs") or they are crazy expensive here (CZ). So I am quite force to go with SDR/4k screen.

Ad remote: Yes, I plan to buy something like this (I want mini keyboard capabilities too).

Thank you for your hints, it helped me.

[skunkos]

Hi

look here https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=252916
and btw i suggest Vero4k+

BHH

 Yes, I went through the thread and many others. While Vero 4k+ looks really solid (and i added it to my list), i have several points about it:

• is bit more expensive than i'd like
  
• is is currently sold out
  

But it certainly became one of my contenders.     

The Vero 4K + is still available locally in CZ: http://rpishop.cz/komplety/1013-osmc-vero-4k.html 
Vero 4K + should be back in stock in a couple of weeks. 

Cheers

Sam 

 Yes, but it is even more expensive (+20%) than if I order from official store.