First time setup...
#1
Been a long time user of MediaElch that was the most hands on and easy to use media manager around until TheTVDB finally went through with their move to the new API and page layout a few days ago.

So went out searching for a replacement and found Ember and set it up adding my sources to it and clicked OK.
Became a little skeptical when the loading of my files took so long since the only thing I expected Ember to do was populating the database with my files so I could get to work.

With a bad feeling in my stomach I opened up one of my TV show folders just to realize Ember had begun downloading season fanart, which isn't a big problem since it's just to delete them, but it had also downloaded and replaced every single season poster and banner, and not just deleting them to the bin, it completely wrote them over!
Like WTF!?
There wasn't even a warning or a single hint of that this would be done so years of work finding and edit banners, fanart and posters to fit my need and even making my own stuff, completely vanished.

Is this really how the program is intended to work?
Any way to turn this crazy behavior off?

If not, what other media manager should I choose instead?
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#2
All of the artwork options have a box to "Keep existing" artwork
Image
Did you go through the options before scraping all your TV in?
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#3
Been in the same boat.  One would think "keep existing" would be the default.  No?
YOYIZDERZOMENEMOHOZEZAZEZDENDERIZHOZEZ
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#4
(2019-08-01, 14:40)bobrap Wrote: Been in the same boat.  One would think "keep existing" would be the default.  No?

But Ember doesnt auto scrape when you add a source, it just sounds like what we've all done at one time and he just added his source and click scrape all without having a look at the options
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#5
(2019-08-01, 13:13)komplex Wrote: All of the artwork options have a box to "Keep existing" artwork
Image
Did you go through the options before scraping all your TV in?
No because I didn't think just adding my sources in options and hitting OK would trigger a scrape, that's some insane engineering.
And why isn't 'Keep existing' checked as standard? Does anyone really want to download all of their artwork every time they refresh their share to pick up new additions?

And all these settings is a nightmare to wade through, if everything was explained or had some logic fine, but as this thing is designed I guess only the programmer and the hardcore users can keep up with it all.
(2019-08-01, 15:09)komplex Wrote:
(2019-08-01, 14:40)bobrap Wrote: Been in the same boat.  One would think "keep existing" would be the default.  No?

But Ember doesnt auto scrape when you add a source, it just sounds like what we've all done at one time and he just added his source and click scrape all without having a look at the options  
I didn't click on 'Scrape all', didn't even come so far in my process so I know where such a button or menu option is located.
I added my sources and exited the settings dialogue and of we went. Every single artwork began renewing before I understood what was happening and killed the program.
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#6
(2019-08-01, 15:47)inzzzomnia Wrote: No because I didn't think just adding my sources in options and hitting OK would trigger a scrape
It doesn't
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#7
(2019-08-01, 17:21)komplex Wrote:
(2019-08-01, 15:47)inzzzomnia Wrote: No because I didn't think just adding my sources in options and hitting OK would trigger a scrape
It doesn't
 
With all due respect , that video is completely ridiculous, its done so fast  a viewer would literally have to pause and rewind every few seconds to try and see what the cursor is doing , total waste of time , would certainly put users off trying EMM , has done me anyway.To give it a chance I watched it twice ( resolution is awful ) and gave up.
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#8
(2019-08-01, 22:16)ontap Wrote: its done so fast
What exactly is done too fast? I add a source and wait for it be scanned in my Ember and you can see it doesn't scrape anything
(2019-08-01, 22:16)ontap Wrote: resolution is awful
The resolution is 2560x1440, would you like me to try again but in 4k?
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#9
(2019-08-01, 15:09)komplex Wrote:
(2019-08-01, 14:40)bobrap Wrote: Been in the same boat.  One would think "keep existing" would be the default.  No?

But Ember doesnt auto scrape when you add a source, it just sounds like what we've all done at one time and he just added his source and click scrape all without having a look at the options   
My point was just that I think a program should not over write anything by default.  Unless I tell the program to automagically overwrite existing artwork, it should skip what's there and add new if nothing's found.  Just think this would make things easier for new folks and save a lot of "Where'd my stuff go?!"  Smile
YOYIZDERZOMENEMOHOZEZAZEZDENDERIZHOZEZ
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#10
(2019-08-01, 17:21)komplex Wrote:
(2019-08-01, 15:47)inzzzomnia Wrote: No because I didn't think just adding my sources in options and hitting OK would trigger a scrape
It doesn't 
That's like telling someone that's standing outside in the rain that it isn't raining according to the weather report.

Not sure what you want to show/tell me with the video because it's so tiny, or big depending on how you see it, that I only catch you unchecking and checking a bunch of boxes and alt-tab to the explorer.

But if your point is that you have to uncheck a quadrillion checkboxes for Ember not to overwrite your existing artwork when adding a source the design and idea behind this program is, as I've already said, insane.
Is that what you wanted to show?
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#11
(2019-08-01, 14:40)bobrap Wrote: Been in the same boat.  One would think "keep existing" would be the default.  No?

Yeah, that makes most sense.
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#12
(2019-08-01, 02:12)inzzzomnia Wrote: With a bad feeling in my stomach I opened up one of my TV show folders just to realize Ember had begun downloading season fanart, which isn't a big problem since it's just to delete them, but it had also downloaded and replaced every single season poster and banner, and not just deleting them to the bin, it completely wrote them over!

I whould say that's not true. If you add a tv show source and there is a tvshow.nfo with a correct TVDb ID, Ember automatically scrape missing episode info and images, also season images if an enabled season image type is missing. But at that point Ember only enable season image types to scrape if they are missing:

Code:
'Scrape season images
If isNew AndAlso tmpSeason.TVShow.UniqueIDsSpecified AndAlso tmpSeason.ShowIDSpecified Then
     Dim SearchResultsContainer As New MediaContainers.SearchResultsContainer
     Dim ScrapeModifiers As New Structures.ScrapeModifiers
     If Not tmpSeason.ImagesContainer.Banner.LocalFilePathSpecified AndAlso Master.eSettings.TVSeasonBannerAnyEnabled Then ScrapeModifiers.SeasonBanner = True
     If Not tmpSeason.ImagesContainer.Fanart.LocalFilePathSpecified AndAlso Master.eSettings.TVSeasonFanartAnyEnabled Then ScrapeModifiers.SeasonFanart = True
     If Not tmpSeason.ImagesContainer.Landscape.LocalFilePathSpecified AndAlso Master.eSettings.TVSeasonLandscapeAnyEnabled Then ScrapeModifiers.SeasonLandscape = True
     If Not tmpSeason.ImagesContainer.Poster.LocalFilePathSpecified AndAlso Master.eSettings.TVSeasonPosterAnyEnabled Then ScrapeModifiers.SeasonPoster = True
     If ScrapeModifiers.SeasonBanner OrElse ScrapeModifiers.SeasonFanart OrElse ScrapeModifiers.SeasonLandscape OrElse ScrapeModifiers.SeasonPoster Then
          If Not ModulesManager.Instance.ScrapeImage_TV(tmpSeason, SearchResultsContainer, ScrapeModifiers, False) Then
               Images.SetPreferredImages(tmpSeason, SearchResultsContainer, ScrapeModifiers)
          End If
     End If
End If

Also Ember only overwrite enabled file names. All enabled file names should be recognized while DB update before the scraper starts to scrape missing image types (as you can see in the code only if "LocalFilePathSpecified" isn't specified the image type will be scraped). If a movie, movieset, tv show, season or episode will be scraped all images will be re-saved with all enabled file names, even an image already exist. So it's possible that the file names has a gets a new "modified/created date". But in the case of DB update that doesn't mean that an image has been re-scraped/changed! Also the setting "Keep existing" hasn't any influence at that moment. So IMHO it's not possible that your already existing season images has been overwriten.

The settings "Keep existing" isn't enabled by because whit that setting enabled it's not possible to rescrape already existing image types. Usually if someone want to rescrape a movie or something other he also want to rescrape the images based on actual preferrences like resolution or language. I mean rescrape means "get the best results with me preferred settings". If you enable "Keep existing" it's only possible to rescrape images if you use the manual way via the "Edit" dialog.

But again, a DB update does not change any existing image or NFO, it only re-save an file is some cases.

[EDIT] P.S.:
Something I also can't understand: if you try a new software, why do you let it run trouth your whole archiv whithout any tests before? I would describe this as coarse, regardless of whether the software is now "bad" programmed or simply a user error.
German Ember Media Manager Support

Daily Builds - Link
Latest official Ember-MM version - Ember Media Manager 1.4.x
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#13
(2019-08-05, 19:33)DanCooper Wrote:
(2019-08-01, 02:12)inzzzomnia Wrote: With a bad feeling in my stomach I opened up one of my TV show folders just to realize Ember had begun downloading season fanart, which isn't a big problem since it's just to delete them, but it had also downloaded and replaced every single season poster and banner, and not just deleting them to the bin, it completely wrote them over!

I whould say that's not true. If you add a tv show source and there is a tvshow.nfo with a correct TVDb ID, Ember automatically scrape missing episode info and images, also season images if an enabled season image type is missing. But at that point Ember only enable season image types to scrape if they are missing:

Code:
'Scrape season images
If isNew AndAlso tmpSeason.TVShow.UniqueIDsSpecified AndAlso tmpSeason.ShowIDSpecified Then
     Dim SearchResultsContainer As New MediaContainers.SearchResultsContainer
     Dim ScrapeModifiers As New Structures.ScrapeModifiers
     If Not tmpSeason.ImagesContainer.Banner.LocalFilePathSpecified AndAlso Master.eSettings.TVSeasonBannerAnyEnabled Then ScrapeModifiers.SeasonBanner = True
     If Not tmpSeason.ImagesContainer.Fanart.LocalFilePathSpecified AndAlso Master.eSettings.TVSeasonFanartAnyEnabled Then ScrapeModifiers.SeasonFanart = True
     If Not tmpSeason.ImagesContainer.Landscape.LocalFilePathSpecified AndAlso Master.eSettings.TVSeasonLandscapeAnyEnabled Then ScrapeModifiers.SeasonLandscape = True
     If Not tmpSeason.ImagesContainer.Poster.LocalFilePathSpecified AndAlso Master.eSettings.TVSeasonPosterAnyEnabled Then ScrapeModifiers.SeasonPoster = True
     If ScrapeModifiers.SeasonBanner OrElse ScrapeModifiers.SeasonFanart OrElse ScrapeModifiers.SeasonLandscape OrElse ScrapeModifiers.SeasonPoster Then
          If Not ModulesManager.Instance.ScrapeImage_TV(tmpSeason, SearchResultsContainer, ScrapeModifiers, False) Then
               Images.SetPreferredImages(tmpSeason, SearchResultsContainer, ScrapeModifiers)
          End If
     End If
End If

Also Ember only overwrite enabled file names. All enabled file names should be recognized while DB update before the scraper starts to scrape missing image types (as you can see in the code only if "LocalFilePathSpecified" isn't specified the image type will be scraped). If a movie, movieset, tv show, season or episode will be scraped all images will be re-saved with all enabled file names, even an image already exist. So it's possible that the file names has a gets a new "modified/created date". But in the case of DB update that doesn't mean that an image has been re-scraped/changed! Also the setting "Keep existing" hasn't any influence at that moment. So IMHO it's not possible that your already existing season images has been overwriten.

The settings "Keep existing" isn't enabled by because whit that setting enabled it's not possible to rescrape already existing image types. Usually if someone want to rescrape a movie or something other he also want to rescrape the images based on actual preferrences like resolution or language. I mean rescrape means "get the best results with me preferred settings". If you enable "Keep existing" it's only possible to rescrape images if you use the manual way via the "Edit" dialog.

But again, a DB update does not change any existing image or NFO, it only re-save an file is some cases.

[EDIT] P.S.:
Something I also can't understand: if you try a new software, why do you let it run trouth your whole archiv whithout any tests before? I would describe this as coarse, regardless of whether the software is now "bad" programmed or simply a user error. 
Thank you for a long and very in depth answer, I only understood half of it but that's not your fault. Wink

OK, so the artwork that now have populate a big part of my collection and that I've never seen before are just a mirage? Because what happened to me can't happen?
Will they'll turn back to pre-Ember if I stare at them long enough? Yes, I'm sarcastic and some what pissed off at the whole situation Wink

Regarding your PS.
You are kind of contradicting yourself here, as I were to believe what you write above that nothing bad at all can happen, why would there be a need for a "test"?
But to answer your question.
Not in my wildest imagination I thought that only doing such a simple thing as to point the program to where my collection is would trigger it to rescrape or "run trouth" it.
I thought that it would act like all other, more sane managers, I've tested and just add the collection to the program so I could do whatever I intended to do with it afterwards.
But lesson learned and I will stay far away from this program until it's the last one working.

Thankfully I found out that Mediaelch got new developers and there's a new version out that works with the new TheTVDB API so no need for a change yet.

Thank you all for your posts!

Sayonara!
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