Win Which PVR will record DRM files for playback in WMC on the same device?
#1
I have been using Windows Media Center for a decade and am slowly moving to Kodi.  Some of my favorite cable channels have copy-once DRM and Windows supports that.  I'd like to move to Kodi to schedule all my recordings, including those that have DRM. I recognize that no Kodi plugin PVRs will play the recorded files hat have DRM. I tried recording with Next PVR and playback on Windows Media Center, but Windows Media Center would not decrypt for viewing. 

Any thoughts?

Also note: Windows Media Center will play back non-DRM files recorded with NextPVR, but it will not have sound when playing them back at 1.5x speed.  That may be related to the DRM playback issue.

I am still using Windows Media Center as my PVR and have only experimented with NextPVR.  Is there a better plugin to meet my needs on Kodi?
Reply
#2
No PVR addon other than WMC can record these channels marked copy-once.
Reply
#3
Actually I wrote the Network Recorder add on for NextPVR that does connect to the SageMCTTuner service http://www.geektonic.com/2009/10/cableca...-tree.html  This did allow scheduling the recording of DRM'd WTV files and recording with any WMC tuner that NextPVR didn't support.  Given that it uses many obsolete or un supported pieces of software good luck connecting the dots at this point.  v5 of NextPVR won't support it directly either without an extra tuner being developed.

Better alternatives for DRM exist with an STB and a capture device.  I use NextPVR on linux and this work great  we don't even have Cable Card standard or WMC based in Canada so we need this type of device..   Used STB's are pretty easy to come by.


You might consider the WMC addon no idea if DRM channels are supported but it is worth a shot.

Martin
Reply
#4
(2019-11-12, 16:07)emveepee Wrote: Actually I wrote the Network Recorder add on for NextPVR that does connect to the SageMCTTuner service http://www.geektonic.com/2009/10/cableca...-tree.html  This did allow scheduling the recording of DRM'd WTV files and recording with any WMC tuner that NextPVR didn't support.  Given that it uses many obsolete or un supported pieces of software good luck connecting the dots at this point.  v5 of NextPVR won't support it directly either without an extra tuner being developed.

Better alternatives for DRM exist with an STB and a capture device.  I use NextPVR on linux and this work great  we don't even have Cable Card standard or WMC based in Canada so we need this type of device..   Used STB's are pretty easy to come by.


You might consider the WMC addon no idea if DRM channels are supported but it is worth a shot.

Martin

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I thought I had once encountered an old posting somewhere saying that a tuner/PVR recorded the stream in the same format that it was broadcast and so when WMC played it back, it would work just as a live stream with the same DRM.

The alternative you describe seems like a great way to record a single channel, but it seems hard to use KODI to schedule multiple recordings, each with a different channel using a single STB.

I have WMC and it does meet my needs EXCEPT that it does not record video streams from live m3u8 links so that I can watch them later. KODI addons (including NextPVR) do.  For now that means that some of my scheduling and some of my recordings are in KODI and some are in WMC - both on the same device.  It works, but it is awkward.

I am open to any thoughts or suggestions on the matter, I am sure I am not the first to encounter thiis situation.
Reply
#5
(2019-11-13, 06:24)WMC user Wrote:
(2019-11-12, 16:07)emveepee Wrote: Actually I wrote the Network Recorder add on for NextPVR that does connect to the SageMCTTuner service http://www.geektonic.com/2009/10/cableca...-tree.html  This did allow scheduling the recording of DRM'd WTV files and recording with any WMC tuner that NextPVR didn't support.  Given that it uses many obsolete or un supported pieces of software good luck connecting the dots at this point.  v5 of NextPVR won't support it directly either without an extra tuner being developed.

Better alternatives for DRM exist with an STB and a capture device.  I use NextPVR on linux and this work great  we don't even have Cable Card standard or WMC based in Canada so we need this type of device..   Used STB's are pretty easy to come by.


You might consider the WMC addon no idea if DRM channels are supported but it is worth a shot.

Martin

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I thought I had once encountered an old posting somewhere saying that a tuner/PVR recorded the stream in the same format that it was broadcast and so when WMC played it back, it would work just as a live stream with the same DRM.

The alternative you describe seems like a great way to record a single channel, but it seems hard to use KODI to schedule multiple recordings, each with a different channel using a single STB.

I have WMC and it does meet my needs EXCEPT that it does not record video streams from live m3u8 links so that I can watch them later. KODI addons (including NextPVR) do.  For now that means that some of my scheduling and some of my recordings are in KODI and some are in WMC - both on the same device.  It works, but it is awkward.

I am open to any thoughts or suggestions on the matter, I am sure I am not the first to encounter thiis situation.    
Backends like NextPVR do record the same format that was broadcast, but unfortunately any DRM is not in a format that WMC can play.WMC is unable to decrypted the copy-once/copy-never transport stream itself - it was dependent on the cablecard device removing the encryption before passing the data to WMC.  When WMC records, it produces .dvr-ms / .wtv files, which are different from the original broadcast stream. What happens with encrypted channels is the software (WMC) does sets up a secure communication channel with the cablecard tuner, using various handshakes and certificate checks, then cablecard device decrypts the broadcast channel, stripping the DRM, and passes the raw unencrypted channel to WMC, which then encrypts it own DRM (playready) and saves the content to disk. 

As Martin mentioned, recording from a STB is a good work around. PVR backends like NextPVR have good support for doing this.
Reply
#6
(2019-11-13, 06:24)WMC user Wrote: The alternative you describe seems like a great way to record a single channel, but it seems hard to use KODI to schedule multiple recordings, each with a different channel using a single STB.
You're right but some of this depends on your cable provider and whether they allow old boxes.   Here we can get used STB's for around $25 and used HDPVR's are pretty cheap and similar h264 capture devices aren't too bad, and you only need them for DRM's channels, use your CableCard or OTA channel for traditional channels.. 

The problem with DRM WTV files will become an issue as your system needs replacement because you can't move them.

Martin
Reply
#7
(2019-11-13, 22:12)sub3 Wrote:
(2019-11-13, 06:24)WMC user Wrote:
(2019-11-12, 16:07)emveepee Wrote: Actually I wrote the Network Recorder add on for NextPVR that does connect to the SageMCTTuner service http://www.geektonic.com/2009/10/cableca...-tree.html  This did allow scheduling the recording of DRM'd WTV files and recording with any WMC tuner that NextPVR didn't support.  Given that it uses many obsolete or un supported pieces of software good luck connecting the dots at this point.  v5 of NextPVR won't support it directly either without an extra tuner being developed.

Better alternatives for DRM exist with an STB and a capture device.  I use NextPVR on linux and this work great  we don't even have Cable Card standard or WMC based in Canada so we need this type of device..   Used STB's are pretty easy to come by.


You might consider the WMC addon no idea if DRM channels are supported but it is worth a shot.

Martin

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I thought I had once encountered an old posting somewhere saying that a tuner/PVR recorded the stream in the same format that it was broadcast and so when WMC played it back, it would work just as a live stream with the same DRM.

The alternative you describe seems like a great way to record a single channel, but it seems hard to use KODI to schedule multiple recordings, each with a different channel using a single STB.

I have WMC and it does meet my needs EXCEPT that it does not record video streams from live m3u8 links so that I can watch them later. KODI addons (including NextPVR) do.  For now that means that some of my scheduling and some of my recordings are in KODI and some are in WMC - both on the same device.  It works, but it is awkward.

I am open to any thoughts or suggestions on the matter, I am sure I am not the first to encounter thiis situation.     
Backends like NextPVR do record the same format that was broadcast, but unfortunately any DRM is not in a format that WMC can play.WMC is unable to decrypted the copy-once/copy-never transport stream itself - it was dependent on the cablecard device removing the encryption before passing the data to WMC.  When WMC records, it produces .dvr-ms / .wtv files, which are different from the original broadcast stream. What happens with encrypted channels is the software (WMC) does sets up a secure communication channel with the cablecard tuner, using various handshakes and certificate checks, then cablecard device decrypts the broadcast channel, stripping the DRM, and passes the raw unencrypted channel to WMC, which then encrypts it own DRM (playready) and saves the content to disk. 

As Martin mentioned, recording from a STB is a good work around. PVR backends like NextPVR have good support for doing this. 

Thank you, Sub3.  I hadn't understood how this works and understant the need. I am a subscriber to Verizon Fios for about another year. They have few channels that are copy once. Their competitor, Cablevision is the opposit, and has very few channels that are not copy once. (The same channel that is copy freely on Verizon Fios are copy once on Cablevision because Cablevision wants to lease its hardware for each room.)  I will investigate whether either of them allows me to use my own STB.

So, as I understand it, each STB would be dedicated to a single DRM stream and hardwired to the Kodi-based PVR (probably NextPVR) to ensure that that channel was available when Kodi called for a recording... or is there a way for Kodi to change the channels on the STBs?

I am really only interested in one or two main channels and the STB solution would work for me.  I should note that I have found an M3u8 URL for each of these channels that play these channels unencrypted. As a paying subscribe for these channels, I could make a case that I have paid for the content, but I would not feel comfortable watching them without a VPN because I want do not want to have to make that case in court.
Reply
#8
(2019-11-14, 10:28)emveepee Wrote:
(2019-11-13, 06:24)WMC user Wrote: The alternative you describe seems like a great way to record a single channel, but it seems hard to use KODI to schedule multiple recordings, each with a different channel using a single STB.
You're right but some of this depends on your cable provider and whether they allow old boxes.   Here we can get used STB's for around $25 and used HDPVR's are pretty cheap and similar h264 capture devices aren't too bad, and you only need them for DRM's channels, use your CableCard or OTA channel for traditional channels.. 

The problem with DRM WTV files will become an issue as your system needs replacement because you can't move them.

Martin 

The DRM WTV file problem is worse than what you describe. My investigation here was started because I bought a bigger, faster SSD to replace the older slower SSD in my WMC device. I used Acronis to clone the drive. The new drive worked fine except for WMC. The recorded DRM files would not play and the cablecard channels with DRM would not play either.  It wanted to download new encryption software.  I said OK to that knowing I had the original SSD in hand. The update failed each time I tried it and I was unable to watch the DRM channels of previous recordings.  I saw a thread on how to correct that, by reinstalling WMC from scratch, but I did not wish to do down that path and just put the old SSD back in the system and deleted unnecessary files. (The recordings are on a different disk.)

I call DRM "The Beatles Business Model".  They like to say you are paying for content, but they want you to pay for the same thing over and over and over and over again... like the people that bought a Beatles song when it was originally released in the 1960s on 45, then when it was repackaged onto an LP, then made available on 8-track for cars, then made available on cassette for newer cars, then made available on CD, then with modern digital noise reduction for Remastered CD - 6 times for the same recording, not counting different versions or live versions.  DRM is designed to follow that same business model.
Reply
#9
(2019-11-14, 15:41)WMC user Wrote:
(2019-11-13, 22:12)sub3 Wrote:
(2019-11-13, 06:24)WMC user Wrote: Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I thought I had once encountered an old posting somewhere saying that a tuner/PVR recorded the stream in the same format that it was broadcast and so when WMC played it back, it would work just as a live stream with the same DRM.

The alternative you describe seems like a great way to record a single channel, but it seems hard to use KODI to schedule multiple recordings, each with a different channel using a single STB.

I have WMC and it does meet my needs EXCEPT that it does not record video streams from live m3u8 links so that I can watch them later. KODI addons (including NextPVR) do.  For now that means that some of my scheduling and some of my recordings are in KODI and some are in WMC - both on the same device.  It works, but it is awkward.

I am open to any thoughts or suggestions on the matter, I am sure I am not the first to encounter thiis situation.     
Backends like NextPVR do record the same format that was broadcast, but unfortunately any DRM is not in a format that WMC can play.WMC is unable to decrypted the copy-once/copy-never transport stream itself - it was dependent on the cablecard device removing the encryption before passing the data to WMC.  When WMC records, it produces .dvr-ms / .wtv files, which are different from the original broadcast stream. What happens with encrypted channels is the software (WMC) does sets up a secure communication channel with the cablecard tuner, using various handshakes and certificate checks, then cablecard device decrypts the broadcast channel, stripping the DRM, and passes the raw unencrypted channel to WMC, which then encrypts it own DRM (playready) and saves the content to disk. 

As Martin mentioned, recording from a STB is a good work around. PVR backends like NextPVR have good support for doing this.  

Thank you, Sub3.  I hadn't understood how this works and understant the need. I am a subscriber to Verizon Fios for about another year. They have few channels that are copy once. Their competitor, Cablevision is the opposit, and has very few channels that are not copy once. (The same channel that is copy freely on Verizon Fios are copy once on Cablevision because Cablevision wants to lease its hardware for each room.)  I will investigate whether either of them allows me to use my own STB.

So, as I understand it, each STB would be dedicated to a single DRM stream and hardwired to the Kodi-based PVR (probably NextPVR) to ensure that that channel was available when Kodi called for a recording... or is there a way for Kodi to change the channels on the STBs?

I am really only interested in one or two main channels and the STB solution would work for me.  I should note that I have found an M3u8 URL for each of these channels that play these channels unencrypted. As a paying subscribe for these channels, I could make a case that I have paid for the content, but I would not feel comfortable watching them without a VPN because I want do not want to have to make that case in court. 
Yes, the backend would be configured to use some type of IR blaster or other approach to tell the STB to change channels when it needs to. There is lots of different options for this, and the best option will depend on your STB etc. 

I'm not the moral police on whether or not you should be using an m3u8 stream of the channel. If it works...
Reply
#10
(2019-11-14, 21:57)sub3 Wrote:
(2019-11-14, 15:41)WMC user Wrote:
(2019-11-13, 22:12)sub3 Wrote: Backends like NextPVR do record the same format that was broadcast, but unfortunately any DRM is not in a format that WMC can play.WMC is unable to decrypted the copy-once/copy-never transport stream itself - it was dependent on the cablecard device removing the encryption before passing the data to WMC.  When WMC records, it produces .dvr-ms / .wtv files, which are different from the original broadcast stream. What happens with encrypted channels is the software (WMC) does sets up a secure communication channel with the cablecard tuner, using various handshakes and certificate checks, then cablecard device decrypts the broadcast channel, stripping the DRM, and passes the raw unencrypted channel to WMC, which then encrypts it own DRM (playready) and saves the content to disk. 

As Martin mentioned, recording from a STB is a good work around. PVR backends like NextPVR have good support for doing this.  

Thank you, Sub3.  I hadn't understood how this works and understant the need. I am a subscriber to Verizon Fios for about another year. They have few channels that are copy once. Their competitor, Cablevision is the opposit, and has very few channels that are not copy once. (The same channel that is copy freely on Verizon Fios are copy once on Cablevision because Cablevision wants to lease its hardware for each room.)  I will investigate whether either of them allows me to use my own STB.

So, as I understand it, each STB would be dedicated to a single DRM stream and hardwired to the Kodi-based PVR (probably NextPVR) to ensure that that channel was available when Kodi called for a recording... or is there a way for Kodi to change the channels on the STBs?

I am really only interested in one or two main channels and the STB solution would work for me.  I should note that I have found an M3u8 URL for each of these channels that play these channels unencrypted. As a paying subscribe for these channels, I could make a case that I have paid for the content, but I would not feel comfortable watching them without a VPN because I want do not want to have to make that case in court.  
Yes, the backend would be configured to use some type of IR blaster or other approach to tell the STB to change channels when it needs to. There is lots of different options for this, and the best option will depend on your STB etc. 

I'm not the moral police on whether or not you should be using an m3u8 stream of the channel. If it works... 
Didn't know about IR blasters. Do you recommend any specific Kodi addon's for me to look at? I am totally new to this. Also, any suggestions for the hardware? I understand that it is dependent on the STB, but if I know the formal name or an example of a model, I should be able to take it from there and it would be helpful to others reading this thread as well.  Many thanks!
Reply
#11
IR blaster are infra-red blasters that mimic a IR remote to tune the STB box for you for the PVR software nothing to do with Kodi.  I use a combination of IR blasters and firewire to tune my STB's from NextPVR.   As sub mentioned it will vary by your provider.   Some boxes may be RF only which is a problem and some need to be powered on by remote which are not always easy to find.  Best to search out what other users of your STB are doing.

Martin
Reply
#12
(2019-11-15, 00:55)emveepee Wrote: IR blaster are infra-red blasters that mimic a IR remote to tune the STB box for you for the PVR software nothing to do with Kodi.  I use a combination of IR blasters and firewire to tune my STB's from NextPVR.   As sub mentioned it will vary by your provider.   Some boxes may be RF only which is a problem and some need to be powered on by remote which are not always easy to find.  Best to search out what other users of your STB are doing.

Martin
Awesome! Thank you. One last question... related topic. When I play back a recording in WMC that was recorded in WMC, I am able to play it 1.5x speed with good audio. When I play back a recording from NextPVR in WMC, it will play at 1.5x speed but there is no audio (audio works fine at 1x speed.)  Is there a way to play back Kodi recording (NextPVR or any PVR) at faster than 1x speed with audio?  I find they do play back at faster speeds with good audio in VLC but that has a very awkward UI and would introduce a third player when my preference is actually one player rather than 2 or 3 players.  I searched through threads here and didn't find anything that I understood - I am totally new to Kodi.

Thanks again!
Reply
#13
Search for info on the Kodi tempo feature.

Martin
Reply
#14
(2019-11-15, 06:37)emveepee Wrote: Search for info on the Kodi tempo feature.

Martin

Thank you. I found lots of info by using the word "tempo". Appreciate all your help in getting me started with Kodi!
Reply
#15
(2019-11-15, 17:18)WMC user Wrote:
(2019-11-15, 06:37)emveepee Wrote: Search for info on the Kodi tempo feature.

Martin

Thank you. I found lots of info by using the word "tempo". Appreciate all your help in getting me started with Kodi! 

Just to close the loop for other newbies that might be reading this, I was able to change the tempo by following the clear instructions/screenshots here: 

2420219 (post)
Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average



Logout Mark Read Team Forum Stats Members Help
Which PVR will record DRM files for playback in WMC on the same device?00