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Managing music albums Box-Sets properly with KODI library feature
#91
(2019-08-31, 18:48)dm21912 Wrote: unfortunately that would very quickly fall down. Some examples:

Image
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I don't understand what you're trying to say. None of the releases you show have any DISCSUBTITLE. This is what releases with DISCSUBTITLE look like:

Image

Actuallly, I don't care how boxsets are implemented, I only expect 2 things:
  1. I don't need to retag / add tags
  2. DISCSUBTITLE can be shown in place of ALBUM title

That way I would see the actual album as shown in my pic above.
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#92
(2019-09-01, 20:07)HeresJohnny Wrote:
(2019-08-31, 18:48)dm21912 Wrote: unfortunately that would very quickly fall down. Some examples:

ImageImageImageImage

I don't understand what you're trying to say. None of the releases you show have any DISCSUBTITLE. This is what releases with DISCSUBTITLE look like:

Image

Actuallly, I don't care how boxsets are implemented, I only expect 2 things:
  1. I don't need to retag / add tags
  2. DISCSUBTITLE can be shown in place of ALBUM title

That way I would see the actual album as shown in my pic above.  

because you suggested that a release should be only be treated as a box set where discsubtitle was present.
Quote:My counter proposition is to use just the presence of DISCSUBTITLE = [anything] for something to be recognized as a boxset for now.

so i was showing a bunch of releases that wouldn't be considered box sets (despite most definitely being box sets - i have all five, in the actual boxes Big Grin) if that was the only criteria and why it wouldnt be suitable as the sole criteria for something being considered a box set.
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#93
(2019-09-01, 23:49)dm21912 Wrote: because you suggested that a release should be only be treated as a box set where discsubtitle was present.
Quote:My counter proposition is to use just the presence of DISCSUBTITLE = [anything] for something to be recognized as a boxset for now.

so i was showing a bunch of releases that wouldn't be considered box sets (despite most definitely being box sets - i have all five, in the actual boxes Big Grin) if that was the only criteria and why it wouldnt be suitable as the sole criteria for something being considered a box set.

No you didn't... none of your examples had DISCSUBTITLE and now I'm not sure if you understood the meaning of my message and the example shown.
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#94
(2019-09-02, 22:49)HeresJohnny Wrote:
(2019-09-01, 23:49)dm21912 Wrote: because you suggested that a release should be only be treated as a box set where discsubtitle was present.
Quote:My counter proposition is to use just the presence of DISCSUBTITLE = [anything] for something to be recognized as a boxset for now.

so i was showing a bunch of releases that wouldn't be considered box sets (despite most definitely being box sets - i have all five, in the actual boxes Big Grin) if that was the only criteria and why it wouldnt be suitable as the sole criteria for something being considered a box set.  

No you didn't... none of your examples had DISCSUBTITLE and now I'm not sure if you understood the meaning of my message and the example shown.  

Uh?

You proposed that the sole method of determining if something was a box set could be "if disc subtitle present then is a box set"

And thats exactly my point, NONE of the suggestions I listed had disc subtitle present (that was wholly intentional), nor would they ever have disc subtitle present, because there is no valid disc subtitle, nor will there ever be. 

Therefore.. under your suggestion of:
Quote:My counter proposition is to use just the presence of DISCSUBTITLE = [anything] for something to be recognized as a boxset for now.

They would not be recognised or considered box sets (despite actually being box sets) due to their lack of discsubtitle.. 


I was pointing out where your idea of "if disc subtitle present then its a box set" would not work. I have countless box sets where there is, nor will there EVER be, a disc subtitle (a 6 disc anthology will not have disc subtitles for instance).


But anyway, i think maybe the confusion is coming because I seem to have a different criteria for "what is a box set" to yourself. For me, if it comes in a box, has more than 3 cd's or 5 lp's, its a box set Big Grin
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#95
I suppose at the end of the day it comes down to "what do want out of the UI?".

One case is "I want to filter on "boxset" as a type of release.

Another case is "I want to be able to associate releases with the same recordings or at least track titles together".

The first case seems more general and would be up to the user (possibly with support from an online data source).  This strikes me as much like "compilation" where user can get a tag set from online source or manually set it via nfo or "interpret" it from VA album artist (seems much like using disksubtitle to "interpret).

Brings up something I may have missed, are all boxsets also compilations (I think true?)

scott s.
.
maintainer of skin  Aeon MQ5 mods for post-Gotham Kodi releases:
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#96
@scott967 No, they aren't all compilations.  If they are by a single album artist (generally true, but not necessarily always) then they aren't (in Kodi's processing) a compilation.  A better description, at least for me, is that they are generally anthologies and tend to consist of re-releases of previous work that is either re-mastered or exactly the same as the original release but often with added extras such as various re-mixes and/or demo's and previously unreleased versions.
Quote:Filter on "boxset" as a type of release
- Already working via a new node. You can also filter via the jsonrpc by querying {"jsonrpc": "2.0", "id": 1, "method": "AudioLibrary.GetAlbums","params":{"properties":["artist", "description", "albumlabel","genre","compilation"],"boxset":true}}. That will only return albums that are marked as boxsets. Alternatively, you can add "boxset" as a property and do something like {"jsonrpc": "2.0", "id": 1, "method": "AudioLibrary.GetAlbums","params":{"properties":["artist", "boxset"], "filter":{"field":"artist","operator":"is","value":"Erasure"}}} which will return all the albums that Erasure feature on and whether or not the album is marked as a boxset.

From a skinning point of view, there are two new labels ListItem.DiscName and MusicPlayer.DiscName. In my slightly modified Estuary skin, in the first node ListItem.DiscName shows the name of each of the discs in the set unless there is an album description (nowhere else to fit that information in), in the song view it shows the name of the disc you are currently viewing. MusicPlayer.DiscName contains the name of the disc you are currently listening to, if one exists. Even for albums that aren't marked as boxsets, those labels will be filled if there was a disc subtitle present in the tags.

The boxset node will not appear if there aren't any boxsets.

Technical bit coming for those that don't want to read it.

I need to figure out why AudioLibrary.GetAlbumDetails doesn't return the boxset property even though it is returned in CAlbum from the database. Not sure what I've missed there, perhaps its a field naming issue as AudioLibrary.GetAlbums has some mapping going on between the JSON properties and the db fields and GetAlbumDetails doesn't. Unlikely to be today though as I'm with a client for most of the day.
Learning Linux the hard way !!
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#97
(2019-09-03, 00:04)dm21912 Wrote: And thats exactly my point, NONE of the suggestions I listed had disc subtitle present (that was wholly intentional), nor would they ever have disc subtitle present, because there is no valid disc subtitle, nor will there ever be. 

Ok, it is I who didn't understand and need to apologize. But only now it begins to dawn on me that the purpose of tagging with "boxset" is purely for filtering reasons. To me that seems such a triviality that I cannot think of a real life case where I would ever want to select music to listen to according to that criteria - but to each his own I guess. Also, it is clearly untrue that those releases you quoted wouldn't ever have discsubtitles... it is not unheard of and entirely up to you to add some. The presence of discsubtitles as a requirement would certainly avoid some pitfalls in Kodi and make life easier for the lead programmer. It would just require some work on musicbrainz from the user which I think isn't unreasonable given the limited amount of boxsets and that Dave shouldn't have to do all the heaving lifting.

Speaking of filters, I would find it much more interesting to get filtering options for number of channels in a recording or "HiRes" options, i.e. 24 bits or higher than 44khz.

Also, sorting by different releases of the same recording has been a long standing wish - which I think is Dave's list - to avoid showing lots of track no. 1 of a certain recording, for example. But I digress and am out of here Smile
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#98
(2019-09-03, 23:17)HeresJohnny Wrote:
(2019-09-03, 00:04)dm21912 Wrote: And thats exactly my point, NONE of the suggestions I listed had disc subtitle present (that was wholly intentional), nor would they ever have disc subtitle present, because there is no valid disc subtitle, nor will there ever be. 

Ok, it is I who didn't understand and need to apologize. But only now it begins to dawn on me that the purpose of tagging with "boxset" is purely for filtering reasons. To me that seems such a triviality that I cannot think of a real life case where I would ever want to select music to listen to according to that criteria - but to each his own I guess. 

its more about breaking massive boxsets down into discs so that you may listen to a single disc, or add a single disc to a queue easily. 

The idea is that when you go into a box set it will then be split by disc.

Heres an example, a recent Bob Dylan set spread over 14 discs

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As it stands in Kodi its pretty unweildy.. Sure, I can play an individual concert, say the afternoon show from Boston, but adding just those two discs to my play queue to listen to a single show is pretty involved. its not convenient.

But if on entering a box set there is then a further split, by disc/title, I can quickly locate the show I want and add that to my play queue. 



Heres a second example, this time of a box set of all Neutral Milk Hotel releases.

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In this instance on clicking on the box set I would then be presented with a separate folder for each disc id. Meaning again, I could play a single release without having to navigate through 70+ tracks
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#99
Now you're just teasing me by showing releases with DISCSUBTITLE Tongue
BTW, you said that only 5 of your 50 boxsets were tagged as compilations, but all of your examples from https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid...pid2881708 are tagged as compilations, as are the examples shown above. Can you point me to some examples that aren't?

Compilation might still be a valid distinguisher.
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(2019-08-28, 22:47)black_eagle Wrote: If you don't add the tag then Kodi will create boxsets where

- all discs have titles &
- there are 3 or more discs &
- the album isn't marked as a compilation in the tags
I should think the third criterium needs to read that album IS in fact marked as compilation. If "Album + Compilation" is missing on MB it would be easy to amend there. Active musicbrainz editing to harmonize releases is just as important as filtering by those tags in Kodi, IMHO.
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(2019-09-04, 21:48)HeresJohnny Wrote:
(2019-08-28, 22:47)black_eagle Wrote: If you don't add the tag then Kodi will create boxsets where

- all discs have titles &
- there are 3 or more discs &
- the album isn't marked as a compilation in the tags
I should think the third criterium needs to read that album IS in fact marked as compilation. If "Album + Compilation" is missing on MB it would be easy to amend there.    

NO... I have a large number of box sets that are NOT compilations.

Why do you keep saying that all box sets are compilations? They arent!

This IS a box set, it is NOT a compilation

https://musicbrainz.org/release/a15fd67a...25c40b7bd7
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This IS a box set, it is NOT a compilation

https://musicbrainz.org/release/23854e73...7bffe793f4
Image

This IS a box set, it is NOT a compilation

https://musicbrainz.org/release/1877489f...5f316e7c12
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I have maybe 40 box sets, and only very few are actually true "compilations" (I consider compilations either greatest hits packages, of anthologies covering decades etc). Theres a handful more like "more blood more tracks" that MB considers compilations (but I would think differently)

What should be noted from MB guidelines:

The MusicBrainz project does not generally consider the following to be compilations:
a reissue of an album, even if it includes bonus tracks.
a tribute release containing covers of music by another artist.
a classical release containing new recordings of works by a classical artist.

So for instance, the Above re-releases of The White Album, Rumours, Ram DO NOT qualify as compilations under MB guidelines.

The vast majority of my box sets are super deluxe or deluxe re-releases of albums./

another example

https://musicbrainz.org/release/28b119b5...a7bc4fad52
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Box set reissue of the Joshua tree with 3 discs of bonus material. Not a compilation.
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I feel that all of those should be compilations. The original releases were not but the DeLuxe versions hold so much other stuff that the box set is in fact a compilation. However, it's a fundamental flaw of the MB release design structure that the type "Compilation" (or box set, should that ever be added) can be only set at releasegroup level. For a release that wasn't a compilation originally, additional info for re-releases like the Immersion box set can only added through annotations.

I still feel it's fair to think of these box sets as compilations.
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(2019-09-04, 22:46)HeresJohnny Wrote: I feel that all of those should be compilations. The original releases were not but the DeLuxe versions hold so much other stuff that the box set is in fact a compilation. However, it's a fundamental flaw of the MB release design structure that the type "Compilation" (or box set, should that ever be added) can be only set at releasegroup level. For a release that wasn't a compilation originally, additional info for re-releases like the Immersion box set can only added through annotations.

I still feel it's fair to think of these box sets as compilations.

They really arent.

The upcoming Abbey Road 50th Anniversary release for instance.

Disc 1 - remastered and remixed album. thats not a compilation, its a remaster of the original album
Disc 2 and 3 - outtakes, demos and rehearsals - it could be argued these two discs are a "compilation" of outtakes etc, 

but anyway, MB rules are clear. If its a remastered album with bonus material its not a compilation. Expecting them to change to one persons idea of what a box set is aint gonna happen Big Grin

And for every person that thinks all box sets are compilations, there is going to be another like me, who thinks that unless its a chronology, biographical collection, of previous released material, akin to a greatest hits package, then its not a compilation Big Grin




but, ultimately, using the compilation tag (being present) as a criteria for box sets isnt going to work because for a lot of people (escpecially those who use MB as the base for their tagging) will not have things marked as compilation. (the only thing I have marked as compilations are various artists releases)
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This is going to be tricky... let's set what the resident wizards come up with. Ultimately though, a box set comes down to nothing more than a type of packaging... it could be anything that doesn't have Various Artists.
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Older threads with a similar theme (just to gather things)
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=343526
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=339145
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=325182
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=291377
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