TVHeadEnd ongoing misery grinds on as the years roll by
#16
(2020-11-18, 20:42)ChrisKlondike Wrote: I turn it off to placate the partner who worries about radiatio, but leaving it on doesn't fix it. It still craches from time to time - maybe twice or more a day.
Nothing ever useful in the logs. Do the developers come here? Can one get a dialogue iwth them on why "it usually takes a few reboots to get everything running"?

Personally, I am using a RPi4 with three tuners, leaving it on 24/7, and it's never missed a recording and I can't recall it crashing. I have it running on WIFI, but I have allocated IP addresses in my router which are static. I spent a lot of time and money on good whole-home WIFI (TP-Link Deco). Network clients can connect remotely.

So, there is no fundamental problem with TVHeadEnd.

That isn't to say that yours isn't crashing. But I'd check signal strength, WIFI (by using a wired network first). I was previously recording to my NAS, but I've started using the internal MicroSD card. I expect it to wear out at some point, but I back it up daily.

What TV tuner(s) are you using? How are they connected?

USB on a Pi3B is not that fast. The Pi4 has a definite advantage.
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#17
(2020-11-18, 22:09)ohhwee Wrote: Do you like blood from your ears? Why not jump ship and try out some others, NextPVR works great here.

i looked at tvh briefly and decided against it. I like configuring and figuring stuff out but TVH seems like alot.
OK seems fair enough. The next time TVH blows up I'll kick it out and try NextPVR. I don't know why I didn't even considr alternatives.
Thanks for the kick in the pants I apparently needed.
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#18
(2020-11-18, 23:01)mcelliott Wrote:
(2020-11-18, 20:42)ChrisKlondike Wrote: I turn it off to placate the partner who worries about radiatio, but leaving it on doesn't fix it. It still craches from time to time - maybe twice or more a day.
Nothing ever useful in the logs. Do the developers come here? Can one get a dialogue iwth them on why "it usually takes a few reboots to get everything running"?

Personally, I am using a RPi4 with three tuners, leaving it on 24/7, and it's never missed a recording and I can't recall it crashing. I have it running on WIFI, but I have allocated IP addresses in my router which are static. I spent a lot of time and money on good whole-home WIFI (TP-Link Deco). Network clients can connect remotely.

So, there is no fundamental problem with TVHeadEnd.

That isn't to say that yours isn't crashing. But I'd check signal strength, WIFI (by using a wired network first). I was previously recording to my NAS, but I've started using the internal MicroSD card. I expect it to wear out at some point, but I back it up daily.

What TV tuner(s) are you using? How are they connected?

USB on a Pi3B is not that fast. The Pi4 has a definite advantage.
Thanks for your comments and ideas. Any sensible system would report WiFi issues to the user, via the UI - not just die,m or bury some debug in some vast log file accessible only through SSH, so even if WiFi IS the problem, TVH still stinks. I have one AUGUST USB tuner connected, but again - if the hardware craps out, any sensible system would inform the user, in a civilized and obvious way, so - guilty again. Pi4? Yeah maybe. But I've never seen the Pi3 CPUs even remotely maxed out. I think I'll try a TVH alternative next, as suggested to me here. Thanks again for your time.
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#19
(2020-11-19, 11:15)ChrisKlondike Wrote:
(2020-11-18, 23:01)mcelliott Wrote:
(2020-11-18, 20:42)ChrisKlondike Wrote: I turn it off to placate the partner who worries about radiatio, but leaving it on doesn't fix it. It still craches from time to time - maybe twice or more a day.
Nothing ever useful in the logs. Do the developers come here? Can one get a dialogue iwth them on why "it usually takes a few reboots to get everything running"?

Personally, I am using a RPi4 with three tuners, leaving it on 24/7, and it's never missed a recording and I can't recall it crashing. I have it running on WIFI, but I have allocated IP addresses in my router which are static. I spent a lot of time and money on good whole-home WIFI (TP-Link Deco). Network clients can connect remotely.

So, there is no fundamental problem with TVHeadEnd.

That isn't to say that yours isn't crashing. But I'd check signal strength, WIFI (by using a wired network first). I was previously recording to my NAS, but I've started using the internal MicroSD card. I expect it to wear out at some point, but I back it up daily.

What TV tuner(s) are you using? How are they connected?

USB on a Pi3B is not that fast. The Pi4 has a definite advantage.
Thanks for your comments and ideas. Any sensible system would report WiFi issues to the user, via the UI - not just die,m or bury some debug in some vast log file accessible only through SSH, so even if WiFi IS the problem, TVH still stinks. I have one AUGUST USB tuner connected, but again - if the hardware craps out, any sensible system would inform the user, in a civilized and obvious way, so - guilty again. Pi4? Yeah maybe. But I've never seen the Pi3 CPUs even remotely maxed out. I think I'll try a TVH alternative next, as suggested to me here. Thanks again for your time.

To be fair TV Headend does show you recording errors in the web UI - along with data error reporting in a number of places in the web UI (subscriptions/streams etc.) 

I ran a Raspberry Pi 4B for 18 months with an HD HomeRun Dual, and then Quad, DVB-T/T2 IP tuner and it was faultless with a 1 TB USB hard drive for storage.  I ran TV Headend alongside OpenMedia Vault.

I've had no major issues with Pi 3B+s and a Pi Foundation TV Hat either.  USB connected tuners can be a bit flakier - and I've not used them for any huge length of time.

I currently run TV Headend on a cheap Celeron PC with an 8-tuner SAT>IP set-up feeding it, and it records 6 channels 24/7 with no major issues (so I have a constant 10-14 day archive of the main UK HD channels)
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#20
(2020-12-04, 11:16)noggin Wrote:
(2020-11-19, 11:15)ChrisKlondike Wrote:
(2020-11-18, 23:01)mcelliott Wrote: Personally, I am using a RPi4 with three tuners, leaving it on 24/7, and it's never missed a recording and I can't recall it crashing. I have it running on WIFI, but I have allocated IP addresses in my router which are static. I spent a lot of time and money on good whole-home WIFI (TP-Link Deco). Network clients can connect remotely.

So, there is no fundamental problem with TVHeadEnd.

That isn't to say that yours isn't crashing. But I'd check signal strength, WIFI (by using a wired network first). I was previously recording to my NAS, but I've started using the internal MicroSD card. I expect it to wear out at some point, but I back it up daily.

What TV tuner(s) are you using? How are they connected?

USB on a Pi3B is not that fast. The Pi4 has a definite advantage.
Thanks for your comments and ideas. Any sensible system would report WiFi issues to the user, via the UI - not just die,m or bury some debug in some vast log file accessible only through SSH, so even if WiFi IS the problem, TVH still stinks. I have one AUGUST USB tuner connected, but again - if the hardware craps out, any sensible system would inform the user, in a civilized and obvious way, so - guilty again. Pi4? Yeah maybe. But I've never seen the Pi3 CPUs even remotely maxed out. I think I'll try a TVH alternative next, as suggested to me here. Thanks again for your time.

To be fair TV Headend does show you recording errors in the web UI - along with data error reporting in a number of places in the web UI (subscriptions/streams etc.) 

I ran a Raspberry Pi 4B for 18 months with an HD HomeRun Dual, and then Quad, DVB-T/T2 IP tuner and it was faultless with a 1 TB USB hard drive for storage.  I ran TV Headend alongside OpenMedia Vault.

I've had no major issues with Pi 3B+s and a Pi Foundation TV Hat either.  USB connected tuners can be a bit flakier - and I've not used them for any huge length of time.

I currently run TV Headend on a cheap Celeron PC with an 8-tuner SAT>IP set-up feeding it, and it records 6 channels 24/7 with no major issues (so I have a constant 10-14 day archive of the main UK HD channels)
OK well that's another datapoint. It works for you. I've recently re-installed everything on a new Flash card, and installed a new USB power cable, and I've been leaving it on at night, and stability is much better. It isn't perfect - it still crashes, and when it comes back it turns the TV on and makes noises. Really annoying at 4am. And yes, I've turned OFF the feature which switches the TV to tKodi when it boots, but it still does this.

So it's just not quite miserable enough (for someone as idle as me) to try another PVR solution.
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#21
(2020-12-04, 11:41)ChrisKlondike Wrote:
(2020-12-04, 11:16)noggin Wrote:
(2020-11-19, 11:15)ChrisKlondike Wrote: Thanks for your comments and ideas. Any sensible system would report WiFi issues to the user, via the UI - not just die,m or bury some debug in some vast log file accessible only through SSH, so even if WiFi IS the problem, TVH still stinks. I have one AUGUST USB tuner connected, but again - if the hardware craps out, any sensible system would inform the user, in a civilized and obvious way, so - guilty again. Pi4? Yeah maybe. But I've never seen the Pi3 CPUs even remotely maxed out. I think I'll try a TVH alternative next, as suggested to me here. Thanks again for your time.

To be fair TV Headend does show you recording errors in the web UI - along with data error reporting in a number of places in the web UI (subscriptions/streams etc.) 

I ran a Raspberry Pi 4B for 18 months with an HD HomeRun Dual, and then Quad, DVB-T/T2 IP tuner and it was faultless with a 1 TB USB hard drive for storage.  I ran TV Headend alongside OpenMedia Vault.

I've had no major issues with Pi 3B+s and a Pi Foundation TV Hat either.  USB connected tuners can be a bit flakier - and I've not used them for any huge length of time.

I currently run TV Headend on a cheap Celeron PC with an 8-tuner SAT>IP set-up feeding it, and it records 6 channels 24/7 with no major issues (so I have a constant 10-14 day archive of the main UK HD channels)
OK well that's another datapoint. It works for you. I've recently re-installed everything on a new Flash card, and installed a new USB power cable, and I've been leaving it on at night, and stability is much better. It isn't perfect - it still crashes, and when it comes back it turns the TV on and makes noises. Really annoying at 4am. And yes, I've turned OFF the feature which switches the TV to tKodi when it boots, but it still does this.

So it's just not quite miserable enough (for someone as idle as me) to try another PVR solution.

Why is your TV Headend server connected to the TV?  

I think it's always a better idea to dedicate a low-cost device (a Raspberry Pi or similar ARM device for single tuner stuff (*)) to purely running TV Headend, which can run headless (i.e. no keyboard, mouse, video connection required).  Just connect it to your network and configure it via the web UI, and SSH into it if you need to check other stuff.  If there are (needless) concerns about WiFi - use a cabled Ethernet connection, via decent Powerline adaptors if you can't run a network cable to where your TV Headend server/antenna connection are). I would always leave it running 24/7.

Whilst it's true you can run TV Headend under LibreElec - and that can be a great solution for very simple all-in-one TV viewing (particularly when you are in a hotel or caravan etc.) I'd always suggest 'at home' set-ups were based around a headless server implementation.

(*) Another option some people use is running TV Headend either on their NAS storage servers, or as a Docker or VM on a virtual machine server. (I've done that in the past - particularly with SAT>IP and HD HomeRun IP-connected DVB tuners)
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#22
(2020-12-05, 11:09)noggin Wrote:
(2020-12-04, 11:41)ChrisKlondike Wrote:
(2020-12-04, 11:16)noggin Wrote: To be fair TV Headend does show you recording errors in the web UI - along with data error reporting in a number of places in the web UI (subscriptions/streams etc.) 

I ran a Raspberry Pi 4B for 18 months with an HD HomeRun Dual, and then Quad, DVB-T/T2 IP tuner and it was faultless with a 1 TB USB hard drive for storage.  I ran TV Headend alongside OpenMedia Vault.

I've had no major issues with Pi 3B+s and a Pi Foundation TV Hat either.  USB connected tuners can be a bit flakier - and I've not used them for any huge length of time.

I currently run TV Headend on a cheap Celeron PC with an 8-tuner SAT>IP set-up feeding it, and it records 6 channels 24/7 with no major issues (so I have a constant 10-14 day archive of the main UK HD channels)
OK well that's another datapoint. It works for you. I've recently re-installed everything on a new Flash card, and installed a new USB power cable, and I've been leaving it on at night, and stability is much better. It isn't perfect - it still crashes, and when it comes back it turns the TV on and makes noises. Really annoying at 4am. And yes, I've turned OFF the feature which switches the TV to tKodi when it boots, but it still does this.

So it's just not quite miserable enough (for someone as idle as me) to try another PVR solution.

Why is your TV Headend server connected to the TV?  

I think it's always a better idea to dedicate a low-cost device (a Raspberry Pi or similar ARM device for single tuner stuff (*)) to purely running TV Headend, which can run headless (i.e. no keyboard, mouse, video connection required).  Just connect it to your network and configure it via the web UI, and SSH into it if you need to check other stuff.  If there are (needless) concerns about WiFi - use a cabled Ethernet connection, via decent Powerline adaptors if you can't run a network cable to where your TV Headend server/antenna connection are). I would always leave it running 24/7.

Whilst it's true you can run TV Headend under LibreElec - and that can be a great solution for very simple all-in-one TV viewing (particularly when you are in a hotel or caravan etc.) I'd always suggest 'at home' set-ups were based around a headless server implementation.

(*) Another option some people use is running TV Headend either on their NAS storage servers, or as a Docker or VM on a virtual machine server. (I've done that in the past - particularly with SAT>IP and HD HomeRun IP-connected DVB tuners)
THanks for your post. I just followed the instructions online, and they put me where I am. TVHeadEnd and Kodi run on the Pi.
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#23
You might want to visit this forum https://rickcaylor.websitetoolbox.com/po...tc-7488044 and look up a guy called DarkSky.   He's done a lot of work making Pi work better for DVB and TV. 

I kind of have to think that your issues are primarily hardware.  While Pi can work I think it's still pretty marginal hardware.   I use TVHeadend and Kodi on the same machine with 10TB USB storage and it's  bullet proof.  I built using an ASRock fan less embedded mobo with a J1900 quad core and 4Gb ram.  Currently running Mint 18.3 Kodi 18.9 and TVHeadend compiled from git about a year ago.  I get most TV using a 3 meter C-Band dish and have to deal with some extremely odd ball configurations like channels with 6 channel audio spread over 3 PIDs.  TVHeadend is the only backend capable of dealing with these odd ball situations.
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#24
(2020-12-07, 00:01)bluzee Wrote: You might want to visit this forum https://rickcaylor.websitetoolbox.com/po...tc-7488044 and look up a guy called DarkSky.   He's done a lot of work making Pi work better for DVB and TV. 

I kind of have to think that your issues are primarily hardware.  While Pi can work I think it's still pretty marginal hardware.   I use TVHeadend and Kodi on the same machine with 10TB USB storage and it's  bullet proof.  I built using an ASRock fan less embedded mobo with a J1900 quad core and 4Gb ram.  Currently running Mint 18.3 Kodi 18.9 and TVHeadend compiled from git about a year ago.  I get most TV using a 3 meter C-Band dish and have to deal with some extremely odd ball configurations like channels with 6 channel audio spread over 3 PIDs.  TVHeadend is the only backend capable of dealing with these odd ball situations.
Thanks. If the Pi hardware is "marginal", then maybe they could take it out of the list of acceptable hardware? Just a crazy-mad idea. Since it's there, it should work. Still, I'm not shooting the messenger - your experience tells you the software can work perfectly well. Fair enough.
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#25
(2020-12-07, 13:23)ChrisKlondike Wrote:
(2020-12-07, 00:01)bluzee Wrote: You might want to visit this forum https://rickcaylor.websitetoolbox.com/po...tc-7488044 and look up a guy called DarkSky.   He's done a lot of work making Pi work better for DVB and TV. 

I kind of have to think that your issues are primarily hardware.  While Pi can work I think it's still pretty marginal hardware.   I use TVHeadend and Kodi on the same machine with 10TB USB storage and it's  bullet proof.  I built using an ASRock fan less embedded mobo with a J1900 quad core and 4Gb ram.  Currently running Mint 18.3 Kodi 18.9 and TVHeadend compiled from git about a year ago.  I get most TV using a 3 meter C-Band dish and have to deal with some extremely odd ball configurations like channels with 6 channel audio spread over 3 PIDs.  TVHeadend is the only backend capable of dealing with these odd ball situations.
Thanks. If the Pi hardware is "marginal", then maybe they could take it out of the list of acceptable hardware? Just a crazy-mad idea. Since it's there, it should work. Still, I'm not shooting the messenger - your experience tells you the software can work perfectly well. Fair enough.

A Pi is absolutely fine as a standalone single and dual tuner TV Headend server if correctly set-up.  If you also want to run Kodi on it - then a Pi 4B+ properly set-up should also be fine if you aren't hammering it, recording everything to the internal SD card etc.  

Personally I'd be fine with my Pi 4B as a combined TV Headend+Kodi solution for non-intensive use cases (travel etc.) but I'd alway recommend separating the TV Headend backend from the front-end. (Even 2 Raspberry Pis for instance)

The Pi 4B with a Pi Foundation TV Hat is a really neat solution as a single tuner TV Headend back-end server for instance.

My guess is that your TV is coming on because for some reason your Kodi PVR client is losing connection with your TV Headend server (running on the same board at local host 127.0.0.1) and that's triggering a 'Connection Lost' warning (these can be turned off). That connection lost warning is causing your Kodi to come out of screen standby and trigger the TV to come on via CEC.  Disabling Connection Lost warnings - which is Settings option for TV / Live TV - will stop that - though I don't know why it would lose connection.

I take it you're running LibreElec with the TV Headend Service Add-on and the TV Headend PVR Client ?
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#26
(2020-12-07, 19:08)noggin Wrote:
(2020-12-07, 13:23)ChrisKlondike Wrote:
(2020-12-07, 00:01)bluzee Wrote: You might want to visit this forum https://rickcaylor.websitetoolbox.com/po...tc-7488044 and look up a guy called DarkSky.   He's done a lot of work making Pi work better for DVB and TV. 

I kind of have to think that your issues are primarily hardware.  While Pi can work I think it's still pretty marginal hardware.   I use TVHeadend and Kodi on the same machine with 10TB USB storage and it's  bullet proof.  I built using an ASRock fan less embedded mobo with a J1900 quad core and 4Gb ram.  Currently running Mint 18.3 Kodi 18.9 and TVHeadend compiled from git about a year ago.  I get most TV using a 3 meter C-Band dish and have to deal with some extremely odd ball configurations like channels with 6 channel audio spread over 3 PIDs.  TVHeadend is the only backend capable of dealing with these odd ball situations.
Thanks. If the Pi hardware is "marginal", then maybe they could take it out of the list of acceptable hardware? Just a crazy-mad idea. Since it's there, it should work. Still, I'm not shooting the messenger - your experience tells you the software can work perfectly well. Fair enough.

A Pi is absolutely fine as a standalone single and dual tuner TV Headend server if correctly set-up.  If you also want to run Kodi on it - then a Pi 4B+ properly set-up should also be fine if you aren't hammering it, recording everything to the internal SD card etc.  

Personally I'd be fine with my Pi 4B as a combined TV Headend+Kodi solution for non-intensive use cases (travel etc.) but I'd alway recommend separating the TV Headend backend from the front-end. (Even 2 Raspberry Pis for instance)

The Pi 4B with a Pi Foundation TV Hat is a really neat solution as a single tuner TV Headend back-end server for instance.

My guess is that your TV is coming on because for some reason your Kodi PVR client is losing connection with your TV Headend server (running on the same board at local host 127.0.0.1) and that's triggering a 'Connection Lost' warning (these can be turned off). That connection lost warning is causing your Kodi to come out of screen standby and trigger the TV to come on via CEC.  Disabling Connection Lost warnings - which is Settings option for TV / Live TV - will stop that - though I don't know why it would lose connection.

I take it you're running LibreElec with the TV Headend Service Add-on and the TV Headend PVR Client ?
Thanks again. Yes, I'm running those things. I disabled the "Switch to Kodi when it wakes up" entry in the UI already but this happens anyway when it reboots.
Anyway, I'm not upgrading hardware. Next time it sh*ts on me, I'll install something other than TVH.
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#27
Can't see any mention of this in the previous remarks.....   are you using a powered hub to plug in your USB devices?
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#28
(2020-12-07, 23:28)bluzee Wrote: Can't see any mention of this in the previous remarks.....   are you using a powered hub to plug in your USB devices?

Yes - spontaneous reboots are usually based around low power issues (If you are using an external bus-powered hard drive - a powered USB hub is kind of vital)
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#29
(2020-12-07, 20:23)ChrisKlondike Wrote:
(2020-12-07, 19:08)noggin Wrote:
(2020-12-07, 13:23)ChrisKlondike Wrote: Thanks. If the Pi hardware is "marginal", then maybe they could take it out of the list of acceptable hardware? Just a crazy-mad idea. Since it's there, it should work. Still, I'm not shooting the messenger - your experience tells you the software can work perfectly well. Fair enough.

A Pi is absolutely fine as a standalone single and dual tuner TV Headend server if correctly set-up.  If you also want to run Kodi on it - then a Pi 4B+ properly set-up should also be fine if you aren't hammering it, recording everything to the internal SD card etc.  

Personally I'd be fine with my Pi 4B as a combined TV Headend+Kodi solution for non-intensive use cases (travel etc.) but I'd alway recommend separating the TV Headend backend from the front-end. (Even 2 Raspberry Pis for instance)

The Pi 4B with a Pi Foundation TV Hat is a really neat solution as a single tuner TV Headend back-end server for instance.

My guess is that your TV is coming on because for some reason your Kodi PVR client is losing connection with your TV Headend server (running on the same board at local host 127.0.0.1) and that's triggering a 'Connection Lost' warning (these can be turned off). That connection lost warning is causing your Kodi to come out of screen standby and trigger the TV to come on via CEC.  Disabling Connection Lost warnings - which is Settings option for TV / Live TV - will stop that - though I don't know why it would lose connection.

I take it you're running LibreElec with the TV Headend Service Add-on and the TV Headend PVR Client ?
Thanks again. Yes, I'm running those things. I disabled the "Switch to Kodi when it wakes up" entry in the UI already but this happens anyway when it reboots.
Anyway, I'm not upgrading hardware. Next time it sh*ts on me, I'll install something other than TVH.

So you have disabled the CEC entry to switch back to the Pi when the Pi comes out of screen saver mode - but your Pi is rebooting (which it shouldn't).  The reboot will assert a CEC switch-over as standard I think - so that UI entry can't change that behaviour.

The question is why your Pi is rebooting - that's not normal.  Most spontaneous reboots are usually caused by power issues. 

1. Are you using an official Raspberry Pi foundation PSU - most of the recent Pi models need more current than most basic third part USB PSUs will supply (particularly phone chargers)
2. Are you using an external hard drive for storage - and is that powered separately (either as a mains powered solution or via a powered USB hub if the drive is bus-powered)
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#30
I was thinking about the DVB tuner device possibly being bus powered.  Most will probably draw more power than a PI can ideally provide and make the system unstable.  A bus powered HD would likely be the same issue.   Using a powered USB hub for anything like this is I believe recommended  and probably even required for things to work well.
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