Use of FanArt (and NFO files) in file-mode?
#31
@Kris_Toff
Quote:I have a question, would xbmc cache the nfo files once they have been read ?


Since Jonathan is talking about using the database, I would conclude no, they will not be "cached" like thumbs, but the data would be stored in the database during a scan. This would make it more like music.

(jonathan plz correct me on this, but i dont believe that music tag data is cached. the browser listing may be cached to disc which includes the attached tag data, but i dont think the tag data, itself, is cached to disc on read.)

Quote:BUT, I like the BritneysPAIRS's suggestions to load it as fanart.jpg is called. (that should still be an option in settings).
Yes, and no. The check for all the additional elements should be consolidated together, and that's what Jonathan was referring to with respect to building a "tag loader" for video. This brings the video section more in line with the music section. the loader will take care of finding all the extra stuff .

In the music section, the tag loader runs as you enter a folder. but, before it reads the information from the files, themselves, it checks teh database to see if its been stored during a previous scan.

@pko
i agree that the nfo xml should support multiple <genre> tags for simplicity.

I really take no offense at the comments and discussion but, I stand by my previous statement. (and this goes for everyone.) If you dont like how something is done, and you feel you can do it better, in a manner that suits you, then I welcome you to do so.

and to respond to your original comments...

1) if you dont like the scraped data, use nfo files to categorize things however you want. you can use whatever genre strings you want. there is no limit.
2) same response. xbmc should display spanish text if thats what in the nfo file.
3) just because the actors node is there, you dont need to access it! (in the future, the library hierarchy will likely be configurable.)
4) the point of the library is to consolidate all your media regardless of where its located. upnp servers so the exact same thing. they do not discriminate. and honestly, its your choose to leave the fileservers offline.
5) again, this is your choice. but i have had an idea regarding this problem for a while. it would also satisfy the complaints around offline data (items on a dvd). its a very simple thing -- generic tagging. you tag a movie with whatever text strings you like -- "interesting", "offline", "spanish", "crap". they are kind of like genres, but intentionally separate and 100% user defined. in xbmc, you would see a new node in the hierarchy called "tags". it could both be a child node or parent node, so for instance, navigation could be genres -> tags , or tags -> genres.
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#32
(sorry, again my answer is probably too long Oo)

kraqh3d Wrote:@pko
i agree that the nfo xml should support multiple <genre> tags for simplicity.

I do not understand what you mean... <genre> already is a multiple instance field! like
<genre>Action</genre><genre>Comedy</genre>

kraqh3d Wrote:If you dont like how something is done, and you feel you can do it better, in a manner that suits you, then I welcome you to do so.

Yes, that is what I was saying, I intend to do it when the "scraper for dummies" wiki entry is finished, maybe next week.

kraqh3d Wrote:and to respond to your original comments...

The particular reasons I was giving were only to justify that file mode has in specific configurations some advantages over library mode; if I ask if it is possible to have metadata or fanart in file mode the response is not "use library mode" like if I just where lazy or ignorant. In fact I'm seeing that many people prefers file mode also but misses the metadata etc like I do.

kraqh3d Wrote:1) if you dont like the scraped data, use nfo files to categorize things however you want. you can use whatever genre strings you want. there is no limit.

It is not that I do not like it, it is that, simply, some information from different sites should not be mixed; for example, if you sort by rating and a site rates 1 to 5 and another 0 to 10, the sorting has no meaning. What's the solution? using the same scraper always? not possible nor even desirable. Creating thousands of nfo files and then editing all by hand? simply overwhelming.

One solution to that is to categorize things (more or less automatically) and then you can compare apples to apples and microsofts to microsofts Wink right now the "categorization" is that the files are in the same directory, but since metadata only exist in library mode, that categorization is lost or the metadata is lost.

For reasons like that is why many people suggest emulating library mode under file mode with nfo files, probably a good solution, but I think I can do the opposite, emulate file mode under library mode, and so *now*, not after atlantis, have the cake and eat the cake (or like we say in spanish, swim and keep the clothes). I intend to do it using <genre> field as tag (instead of the actual genres scraped from internet) populating them automatically at scraper level. A much better and elegant solution would be to have something like that supported by XBMC but that would only be possible after atlantis is out, and even then all must be designed, programmed and actually implemented... maybe a Christmas present Big Grin

kraqh3d Wrote:the point of the library is to consolidate all your media regardless of where its located. upnp servers so the exact same thing. they do not discriminate. and honestly, its your choose to leave the fileservers offline.

Well, that's one of many reasons why I do not like other media systems! most if not all are even less flexible than XBMC's library mode.

The turning off the servers was just an example, is simply to show the need to inform the user that data may be unavailable, that is usually clear in file mode! but when it *is* available, is good to have the metadata in the library. Even the wiki sees that need and suggest using fake files to maintain offline media into the library... I find that solution a real, big, enormous chapuza (do not know how to translate that, in spanish is very colorful... maybe "botched job"? it means a somewhat working but really inelegant solution)

kraqh3d Wrote:but i have had an idea regarding this problem for a while. [...] its a very simple thing -- generic tagging.

Yes! that is exactly what I was proposing in the previous message, and what I intend to simulate using <genre>. But having both <genre> and <tag> would be much better... but that could only be after atlantis, of course
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#33
Kris_Toff ive looked into things and it doesnt look to hard at all to do what I said if you want PM me your MSN its on a hack compaired to what the dev want but its really all I need it to do, I also have fanart patch for it working in music pictures and programs if you want that
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#34
sorry, i thought you were complaining that the genre tag had to be " / " separated like below which is stupid. if multiple <genre> tags are already possible, then ignore that comment.
<genre>Sci-Fi / Drama / Romance</genre>

Quote:It is not that I do not like it, it is that, simply, some information from different sites should not be mixed; for example, if you sort by rating and a site rates 1 to 5 and another 0 to 10, the sorting has no meaning.
thats an excellent point about the rating but its also quite easy to correct using a normalized scale. open a trac request about this. i might even categorize this as a bug. i think the gui only allows 5 stars so that should be the normalized scale.

Quote:What's the solution? using the same scraper always? not possible nor even desirable. Creating thousands of nfo files and then editing all by hand? simply overwhelming.
frankly, xbmc should not have to account for user laziness. if you dont want to put in the work to create nfo files, then you're at the mercy of the scrapers. or you can use billyad's nice tool, or even write your own to automate grabbing the data in the format *you* want it in.

Quote:For reasons like that is why many people suggest emulating library mode under file mode with nfo files, probably a good solution, but I think I can do the opposite, emulate file mode under library mode, and so *now*, not after atlantis, have the cake and eat the cake (or like we say in spanish, swim and keep the clothes). I intend to do it using <genre> field as tag (instead of the actual genres scraped from internet) populating them automatically at scraper level. A much better and elegant solution would be to have something like that supported by XBMC but that would only be possible after atlantis is out, and even then all must be designed, programmed and actually implemented... maybe a Christmas present
do not misinterpret what we're discussing here. having metadata available in files view will only make the metadata available for viewing. nothing more. it will not be emulating library view. there will be no filtering. navigation will be based solely on your filesystem. etc.

Quote:The particular reasons I was giving were only to justify that file mode has in specific configurations some advantages over library mode;
i agree. honestly, i prefer files mode myself. but i couldnt give a damn about access to meta data. and i absolutely do not want metadata retrieval to slow it down. i have id3 tag reading disabled in music files for this very reason.

Quote:if I ask if it is possible to have metadata or fanart in file mode the response is not "use library mode" like if I just where lazy or ignorant. In fact I'm seeing that many people prefers file mode also but misses the metadata etc like I do.

well, fanart was already possible in files mode. but, the skin just needs to be aware of it. in PM3 you can copy the image control from myvideonav.xml to myvideos.xml.

and while i dont care for it myself, i do agree that some consistency between music and video in this case is warranted. and that's what we're discussing -- how to provide access to meta data for videos in files mode.

but you have to respect answers of "no its not supported, use library mode" as that's the current state of affairs. its not going to change anytime soon unless you do it yourself. and no amount of bitching and moaning and whining is going to help.

Quote:The turning off the servers was just an example, is simply to show the need to inform the user that data may be unavailable, that is usually clear in file mode! but when it *is* available, is good to have the metadata in the library.

this has been discussed several times before. there is no way for xbmc to clearly differentiate between deleted and offilne files. all the xbmc knows is that the media is inaccessible. and right now, unless you use the advancedsetting i added for this, inaccessible media is assumed to be deleted and thus removed from the library during an update.

Quote:Even the wiki sees that need and suggest using fake files to maintain offline media into the library... I find that solution a real, big, enormous chapuza (do not know how to translate that, in spanish is very colorful... maybe "botched job"? it means a somewhat working but really inelegant solution)

that's current the work around. i have a ton of off online media sitting on usb drives that are not always powered up or even connected. if you dont like the work around, dont use it, or fix xbmc. or dont use xbmc. no one will be offended.

(most recently, i've been thinking that "offline" should be a default flag which xbmc could use to filter. when at title and episode listings, offline items could be marked with [OFFLINE] or maybe the text is in a different color. and another filter button could be added like watched, where it would cycle through all, online, offline. and of course anything marked as offline would not be removed during an update if inaccessible.)
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#35
kraqh3d Wrote:frankly, xbmc should not have to account for user laziness. if you dont want to put in the work to create nfo files, then you're at the mercy of the scrapers. or you can use billyad's nice tool, or even write your own to automate grabbing the data in the format *you* want it in.

I am not sure kraqh3d refers to this one, but I HIGHLY recommend the excellent Media Companion program to create all nfo files (per movie or tv show), get all the thumbnails and all the fanart images available.
It lets you verify each movie and update the field you don't like or are incorrect...

I have done it for all my movies and it runs about 10 movies per minute.

This way you can control what the scrapper will use of not if an nfo file is already present.

XBMC could get the same info in database but it is still a highly manual process (thumb/fanart) and correcting it is practically impossible. This is why I went for the PC version...

Good luck.
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#36
that's the one. but that shouldn't limit you to using xbmc for windows. xbmc for xbox should have no problems importing the nfo files it produces. (but certainly, you have to correct the data on your pc first.)
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#37
kraqh3d Wrote:(most recently, i've been thinking that "offline" should be a default flag which xbmc could use to filter. when at title and episode listings, offline items could be marked with [OFFLINE] or maybe the text is in a different color. and another filter button could be added like watched, where it would cycle through all, online, offline. and of course anything marked as offline would not be removed during an update if inaccessible.)

Sounds cool, but I thought the whole problem was that xbmc wasn't capable of tagging something 'offline' ?
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#38
kraqh3d: Please make the "never delete anything during scan" the default option.

I presume a forced "Clean" will ignore the setting though?

Cheers,
Jonathan
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#39
jmarsall, easy enough. settings.cpp just needs to default the advancedsetting <cleanonupdate> option to false. i defaulted to to true as that was the previous behaviour. and yes, a "clean library" from the settings menu ignores that. if the user manually invoked it, they better know the consequences. (though i was wondering if it was time for a disclaimer popup warning the user of the consequences, with an ok/cancel button on the bottom.)
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#40
@rwparris
Quote:Sounds cool, but I thought the whole problem was that xbmc wasn't capable of tagging something 'offline' ?
you are correct. today xbmc cannot. we're discussing the future.
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Do not e-mail XBMC-Team members directly asking for support. Read/follow the forum rules.
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#41
I've used xbmc for a long time (several years), but have never tried library mode. Is it possible to use library mode, but at the same time get the same "looks" as in file mode? I don't want to choose genre/... to be able to see the movies. I just want them in a long list. Is it possible - and if yes, then how do I do it?
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#42
Yeah its possible. Search the wiki for flatten and you're done.
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#43
VDRfan Wrote:Yeah its possible. Search the wiki for flatten and you're done.

Ok. Thanks!

A reason that I don't use library mode, is that only a few of my movies are available in public databases. Do I still need to select a scraper? And do I still need to scan the library?
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#44
no you can use your own nfo files besides the films to specify manually the info XBMC is looking for.

http://wiki.xbmc.org/?title=Import_-_Exp..._nfo_Files

should give you the lowdown.
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#45
Hi Guys,

I have been using XBMC for a while and have loads of movies, shows and music videos that cannot be scraped by the database. Like the person before me I prefer to have 1 large list for tv shows and movies etc. Currently in file mode it shown the folder.jpg on the right hand side. Why not have the ability to show the corresponding fanart jpeg based on the filename in the background? This function would compliment the functionality.
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