[2005george]

One great use for XBMC is for playing music at parties. The problem is that the majority of the public doesn't know the UI, and if they're browsing your music collection, they'll instinctively press 'A' (green) to play a song. This effectively erases the entire playlist. I know there have been multiple discussions about this in the past but nothing was ever done. Setting 'A' to queue a song rather than play it seems like the easiest way around this? Is this possible, even as a setting in AdvancedSettings.xml?

[DarkHelmet]

+1

[Loto_Bak]

create a <musiclibrary> section in keymap.xml and change the keymapping.

See http://wiki.xbmc.org/?title=Keymap.xml for more information

If you want to change it globaly put the change in the global section

[2005george]

create a <musiclibrary> section in keymap.xml and change the keymapping.

See http://wiki.xbmc.org/?title=Keymap.xml for more information

If you want to change it globaly put the change in the global section

I don't think that's a very usable solution. I would still like to use A to navigate in/out of folders, but when I press A on a media file I'd like it to queue rather than play and erase my playlist. Using the keymap solution, if someone presses A on a very large folder it will lock the xbox queuing 1000s of media files.

To be clear, 'A' should do the same thing it does now except when a media file is selected, it should queue rather than play (and erase). Thus, enqueue as default action setting.

I really don't understand what the point of erasing the existing music playlist is in the first place, and I've never heard from anyone that liked this change? Why not just add the song to the bottom of the existing playlist rather than delete everything?

[Loto_Bak]

The only other currently implemented solution is to use partymode. A would replace the currently playing song but not remove any other songs that may be queued.

The reason it is the way it is... People expect when they click on a single song in an album for the rest of the album to be played afterward. A very reasonable and preferable action.
With the implementation proposed above that would not happen. Keeping things out of advancedsettings would be much more preferable.

I agree that in a 'party' situation queue might be preferable

I think perhaps an adjustment to partymode to queue on 'playmedia' and force play on 'queue' action would be the most friendly solution but It gets ugly very quickly. Queue action on folders would still queue but on files it would play. Play action of folders would enter but on files it would queue.

[2005george]

I'm not sure I'd agree that I want/expect an entire album queued when I play a track. I actually turn that off in the settings, if I want to queue an entire album I'll queue the folder. This creates further issues when the track is grouped in a folder by genre rather than album, now xbmc will queue my entire genre folder which is obviously not wanted.

I see your partymode idea but I'm not sure it's ideal. Even when not using at a party I really don't want xbmc to delete my playlist if someone simply clicks on a song (the wife turns it on and doesn't know/care what partymode is). Try 'teaching' your wife what 'A' does and have her remember that. I will say I never heard a complaint with the old system when black toggled between playlist and play mode.

Wouldn't a simple solution be to allow 'A' to play or enqueue? So, while 'A' would still navigate into folders, it would also queue a media file if you clicked on it. If you really wanted to queue an entire folder you could use 'Y'. I just don't see the point of having 'A' do what it currently does. If you really want 'A' to play a track then play it but don't add it to my playlist (or delete my tracks that are currently there). I just think the usability took a real dive when it was changed from being My Playlist to Now Playing, and while there were many complaints during that change I never really read from anyone that liked it? (I could be wrong, people that don't like something are most vocal)

[cewan]

I totally agree with you, 2005george! Add my vote to the list. It would be great if this could be fixed.

I totally do NOT agree with what Loto_Bak is saying though. It feels like he is not actually using XBMC to play music...

[Loto_Bak]

2005george,

I hear ya, I'm all for better usability. I also agree that it is likely an area that could use revamp.

Having 'A' have multiple actions depending on the context its used in can become quite confusing though.
What if the user expects one action (play this song) and gets another (queue at end of playlist)
Or say... while a video is playing and pressing 'A' does it interrupt the video and play the music, or does it add the song to the queue and continue playing the video. Or does it add the song to the music queue and start the BEGINNING of the music playlist. Users will be VERY confused if they click on a song and it plays a different song.
What if a streaming radio station is playing and the user is trying to interrupt it for the local mp3 file but it is queued to the end of the playlist.
Does it queue to the end of the playlist or the beginning? Is the only way to interrupt the currently playing song to go into the playlist?

If a user clicks on a song I think the reasonable expectation is for it to play. Deleting the current playlist sucks though

The most important thing... the action of the button needs to be consistent and predictable for users that have never even used xbmc.

cewan, thanks for your great contribution. your ideas are stunning and very helpful to the discussion... oh wait, you didnt contribute anything at all.
(FYI. I generally use partymode all the time with various different smart playlists. A action replaces the current song, queue action queues up next)

[2005george]

I definitely see your point with 'A' having multiple actions. That's why I think the former functionality was better. When you pressed 'A' on a song it did indeed play, but it did not alter your playlist at all (toggled using the black button). So, a person could go through a music collection, sample lots of songs, and play freely until he/she found one they wanted to add to a playlist, which they could do using 'Y'. This was a great way to be able to listen to songs that maybe you didn't know, songs you weren't sure of, etc without wrecking someone's hard work at making a playlist. This is very common for guests and at parties, people love browsing a music collection and playing bits of songs. I find the new method frustrates people to no end, they can no longer really do any of these things without resetting the playlist constantly, so they give up.

I am aware of the Playlist Editor, that's an entirely new thread that I won't start on here It's not nearly as flexible or user friendly as the above method was.

[jmarshall]

The problem was simple: Pressing A while you had other tracks queued had undefined actions following that song. It completely depended on whether the user had "auto play next item" on, and in addition it depended on whether it was video or music queued up (or both). Sometimes it started playing from your playlist, sometimes it continued on. Sometimes when you played a video it would then start playing music afterwards. Sometimes it would do what you expect, sometimes it didn't.

We're more than happy to look at changes, but I have yet to hear a single _complete_ description of an "ad-hoc" playlist setup that would work well in practise. Sit down, think it through, and document a system that you think will work. We can discuss it further from there. It appears that what you're wanting is what is provided via the playlist editor pretty much, with a couple of minor enhancements.

In the meantime, at least what we have now is 100% consistent.

Cheers,
Jonathan

[DarkHelmet]

I haven't completely thought this through so there may be flaws in my conception as well. How about a third view? File view, database view and playlist view? Playlist view would be exactly the same as database view (fanart, album covers etc.) with the exception that hitting enter would not play the song but add it to a playlist or the now playing list.

For me, the main reason why deleting the now playing list happens by guests or the wife is simply because they're browsing the wrong view, which is the database view, where indeed playing the track is the logical thing to happen when you choose it. They should indeed be browsing the playlist editor. The playlist editor however is by far not as convenient and nicely looking as the database view which is why the editor might not be used as much as it should be.

[2005george]

I haven't completely thought this through so there may be flaws in my conception as well. How about a third view? File view, database view and playlist view? Playlist view would be exactly the same as database view (fanart, album covers etc.) with the exception that hitting enter would not play the song but add it to a playlist or the now playing list.

For me, the main reason why deleting the now playing list happens by guests or the wife is simply because they're browsing the wrong view, which is the database view, where indeed playing the track is the logical thing to happen when you choose it. They should indeed be browsing the playlist editor. The playlist editor however is by far not as convenient and nicely looking as the database view which is why the editor might not be used as much as it should be.

That may be a nice solution DarkHelmet! The only issue I have is that the Database View is a bit cumbersome for me (which I do plan on looking at more closely).

For example, when you have a lot of Albums/Artists it really is quite slow. I wish they could be grouped in sections like A-L, M-S, etc. Things like Search are not usable on an xbox at all (the search starts searching after every character press so it's frustrating to wait after every character).

[Mental Block]

This discussion might be of interest - http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=33686

Personally I would have a switch in settings to say if 'Play' or 'enqueue' is the default select option and then have the other in the context menu. The way I would see them working is as such

Play - works exactly the same as the select option does now.

Enqueue - always adds the selected item to the end of the playlist no matter what was in that playlist. If there is no playlist its adds the one item to it and starts playing it.

Main reason I would want the enqueue option is when friends come over and I dont want them to alter the playlist just be able to add to it. Telling them to bring up the context menu and choose 'Queue Item' only works for as long as they are sober

I have just looked again at the playlist editor and I have to say it is much better than I remember it Only thing I would say is that the default option is to play the music file and not add it to the playlist. Also you cant see what is currently playing (PMIII:HD) and once you exit you cant get back to it. So it doesnt really work as a 'live' playlist editor.

Hope this is useful input

[Loto_Bak]

just a fyi for anyone...

Start partymode, do 'queue' action on your playlist.

When users 'A' it will replace the current song (but not delete whole playlist)
When users 'Queue' it adds to end of user added songs
at least it wont overwrite your playlist

When playlist has fewer than 10 songs partymode will start repopulating random songs

[jmarshall]

Mental_Block: I believe spiff fixed the clearing in the playlist editor, so there goes that excuse