[DarkHelmet]

Yeah, thanks a lot for that really quick solution with that problem.

The thing is (for me at least), there are constantly new features added to the database or the skins ("album flow" view, fanart etc. etc.), that this is what most users (myself included) would wanna show guests. Like "look what this thingy can do". It's also just awesome to look at it.

The playlist editor, even though greatly improved, however doesn't look as stunning as the playlist view, which is why it doesn't get the love it should deserve.

Like I said before, the problem is not that "Enter" (Windows) or "A" (Xbox) causes the file to play and not enqueue it. It's the absolut logic and expected thing to happen and the behaviour of xbmc is consistent. People are just using the wrong view. Library view or files view when they should be using the playlist editor, so maybe the solution could be to make playlist editor look as stunning as library view.

Or maybe just include an assisting paperclip "It looks like you're creating a playlist..."

[muppetsoup]

I just thought I would add that I posted a couple weeks ago in regards to being "this close" to using XBMC with touchscreen only, and this suggestion as I understand it would probably make that dream a reality. Perhaps Party Mode is the answer, I hadn't tried it. I will check it out and post back.

[2005george]

Yeah, thanks a lot for that really quick solution with that problem.

The thing is (for me at least), there are constantly new features added to the database or the skins ("album flow" view, fanart etc. etc.), that this is what most users (myself included) would wanna show guests. Like "look what this thingy can do". It's also just awesome to look at it.

The playlist editor, even though greatly improved, however doesn't look as stunning as the playlist view, which is why it doesn't get the love it should deserve.

Like I said before, the problem is not that "Enter" (Windows) or "A" (Xbox) causes the file to play and not enqueue it. It's the absolut logic and expected thing to happen and the behaviour of xbmc is consistent. People are just using the wrong view. Library view or files view when they should be using the playlist editor, so maybe the solution could be to make playlist editor look as stunning as library view.

Or maybe just include an assisting paperclip "It looks like you're creating a playlist..."

Library View is a great concept, until you have a large number of songs in the database. It's so slow it's almost unusable. So then you try using Search instead of browsing all the time, and that is almost unusable as well (it pauses for 1-2 seconds between every character typed). Why it does this I have no idea, because having it dynamically begin searching at each character press is useless when the keyboard covers the results window anyways.

[2005george]

Library View is a great concept, until you have a large number of songs in the database. It's so slow it's almost unusable. So then you try using Search instead of browsing all the time, and that is almost unusable as well (it pauses for 1-2 seconds between every character typed). Why it does this I have no idea, because having it dynamically begin searching at each character press is useless when the keyboard covers the results window anyways.

I'll just add a last message that I have tried everything that has been suggested in regards to this issue:
- I have tried Library Mode, it is painfully slow if you have a very large music collection
- I have tried the Playlist Editor, most will agree it's no substitute for the regular File List, it's almost like being teased with a nice, clean, large interface and being asked to use this inferior, smaller one
- I have tried Party Mode, it does not provide true playlist functionality. For one, you have to use a Smart Playlist. Two, it replaces your currently playing song, and then leaves the rest of your list intact. What most people are asking for is the song you add to go to the bottom of the playlist. Not to mention, I want something as simple as starting my playlist (not a smart playlist), and then start Party Mode on it. This doesn't work, it adds all my songs from my collection rather than my playlist that is already loaded! I know I can create a Smart Playlist and have it use that, but what if I don't want to, I want to 'Party Mode' my regular playlist I created with the Playlist Editor

My conclusion to all of this is simple, the old system was the most intuitive and user friendly interface XBMC has been. Toggling between the playlist and the library/files list with the black button was perfect. You could stay in Files mode and play whatever songs you wanted to without disturbing your playlist at all. Unless you knew that Y added to the playlist, you couldn't harm a thing and you could actually sample songs and then decide which ones to add after hearing them. It was ideal and I know I'm not alone with this opinion, do a search in the forums and you'll find countless threads that detail this. I've also heard from many friends/family members that are not XBMC-savvy all saying the same thing, 'why was this changed, it's far worse now'. Why are the developers so resistant to even give the option of having a 'Playlist' View as an option? It doesn't have to be default, but in my opinion and many others it was a much better system.

[jmarshall]

We know things aren't ideal, but going back to the old way is not the answer, as it was even more unintuitive due to the inconsistencies. Whether you like the new method (which is hardly new) or not, you can't argue that it's inconsistent.

Until some developer steps up and decides to work on something better, things will stay the same as they are. You don't appear to be offering, so may I suggest that your best tactic is to provide good ideas that might inspire a developer, rather than going on about the good old days which weren't actually all that good.

Given that your chief complaint with the playlist editor is the lack of space, why not re-skin it so that this lack of space is not an issue (eg have the playlist list off to one side, and slide it over when you wish to access it.) This is an example of an idea that would improve things.

Lastly, how many songs do you have? Unless it's 20k+ then really you're doing something badly wrong if using the library is slow.

EDIT: And you're typing too slowly in the search control if it's pausing between letters. Are you using a remote and aren't taking advantage of SMS input, or are you using the gamepad and are simply moving too slowly between letters? I'm sure we can improve things here if we understand the problem.

Cheers,
Jonathan

[2005george]

We know things aren't ideal, but going back to the old way is not the answer, as it was even more unintuitive due to the inconsistencies. Whether you like the new method (which is hardly new) or not, you can't argue that it's inconsistent.

Until some developer steps up and decides to work on something better, things will stay the same as they are. You don't appear to be offering, so may I suggest that your best tactic is to provide good ideas that might inspire a developer, rather than going on about the good old days which weren't actually all that good.

Given that your chief complaint with the playlist editor is the lack of space, why not re-skin it so that this lack of space is not an issue (eg have the playlist list off to one side, and slide it over when you wish to access it.) This is an example of an idea that would improve things.

Lastly, how many songs do you have? Unless it's 20k+ then really you're doing something badly wrong if using the library is slow.

EDIT: And you're typing too slowly in the search control if it's pausing between letters. Are you using a remote and aren't taking advantage of SMS input, or are you using the gamepad and are simply moving too slowly between letters? I'm sure we can improve things here if we understand the problem.

Cheers,
Jonathan

True, the old method might not have been consistent everywhere but I do think it was easier/more intuitive, particularly for new users.

I have about 30,000 songs, I've rebuilt my database from scratch many times, and have also looked at the DB (the queries and the indexes) to see if they could be improved.

I'm using the gamepad, and I don't know how anyone could possibly type fast enough to avoid the pause. If two letters are right next to each other I can get two in without the pause, if they're anywhere farther apart it's impossible, it loads too quickly. Believe me I've tried!

Thanks for the response.

[jmarshall]

30k songs should be no problem, even for the xbox. The songs node will be a bit slow, but I doubt you ever want to go into that anyway.

[dvined]

Jmarshall; I know you don't think if this as a way to solve this.

But this XBMC (Which I constantly recruits more people for), which has so many many options - Could benefit from a sort of "Classic" way, we could enable so us who liked the way with a chance to preview, add to our list, and it wouldn't be deleted.

Just a feature, the old code must be around. Since we are some who really liked it.

Thanks.

[jmarshall]

The old code is ofcourse around. Take a look through SVN about 2 years ago. Good luck getting it working.

[2005george]

30k songs should be no problem, even for the xbox. The songs node will be a bit slow, but I doubt you ever want to go into that anyway.

I have 36k songs. Songs node, Artist node are both slow. Not just going into them, backing out, going back in, just trying to retreat to different areas of XBMC, it really doesn't work well with a large collection (there's no way to break it up into A-F, G-R, S-Z, etc).

[2005george]

Jmarshall; I know you don't think if this as a way to solve this.

But this XBMC (Which I constantly recruits more people for), which has so many many options - Could benefit from a sort of "Classic" way, we could enable so us who liked the way with a chance to preview, add to our list, and it wouldn't be deleted.

Just a feature, the old code must be around. Since we are some who really liked it.

Thanks.

That's the problem, this great product is developed by volunteers so often features/changes aren't dictated by the users. If it was paid software 'classic' mode would be back in place long ago based on the complaints

[jmarshall]

Artists mode is probably slow due to you listing all the various artists in that view. Turn 'em off and it'll be far snappier.

You can't do anything about songs view though.

[2005george]

Artists mode is probably slow due to you listing all the various artists in that view. Turn 'em off and it'll be far snappier.

You can't do anything about songs view though.

You're probably right, but when I go to Artists I actually want to see all songs by that Artists, even if they exist on a compilation. Sometimes I _know_ I have a song, but it's contained in a compilation somewhere so I like it listed. I understand why it's slow though, nothing can be done about that!

What about the fact that the search is so difficult with a controller. Is there anything that can be done, anything I can log to possibly get a toggle for the number of seconds it waits between keys (or turn it off completely).

[jmarshall]

Post a ticket on trac, else I will surely forget about it.