1080i but not 1080p?
#1
I have been playing around a little with the skinning engine and found to my amazement that XBMC does not do 1080p for skins, it will do 1080i but there is no way to do 1080p. Sad

I cannot honestly see if the background images are interlaced but I would venture to say they are not, as I suspect I would be able to see the difference between 1080i and 1080p on screen with an even higher resolution...

Anyway just wondering if anyone knows of a plan to implement full 1080p support for skins or if I'll just have to content with 1080i
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#2
rcoops Wrote:I have been playing around a little with the skinning engine and found to my amazement that XBMC does not do 1080p for skins, it will do 1080i but there is no way to do 1080p. Sad

I cannot honestly see if the background images are interlaced but I would venture to say they are not, as I suspect I would be able to see the difference between 1080i and 1080p on screen with an even higher resolution...

Anyway just wondering if anyone knows of a plan to implement full 1080p support for skins or if I'll just have to content with 1080i

it will make NO difference as images (textures) are NOT going to be interlaced so it just the screen dimensions that are used. my skin is 1920x1080 and looks far better for it than it ever was 720p, and faster if you use 1080p as you native res, as no resize is done. also it may just be a placebo but.. the films them selves look better too.
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#3
Thanks for the answer Andy, I found the same yesterday. I have been playing with a home screen over the weekend and there is a clear looks and performance difference between 720p and 1080i/p.

The home screen I am working on right now is native 1080 and that looks a lot nicer then a scaled up 720p. I thought Aeon was beautiful till I realized that for it to be beautiful I would have to redo the whole thing in 1080p which I fear I am not (yet) skilled enough to even try.
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#4
You don't have to redo Aeon, it's native 1080p, all images.
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#5
`Black Wrote:You don't have to redo Aeon, it's native 1080p, all images.

Aeon is NOT 1080p, it is 720p with 1080p textures, so they are scaled down to 720p then scaled up to what your XBMC is set to. so 2 scales that does effect quality. just compare my multiplex coverflow with the original aeon coverflow @ 1080p zero gaggies on them
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#6
rcoops Wrote:Thanks for the answer Andy, I found the same yesterday. I have been playing with a home screen over the weekend and there is a clear looks and performance difference between 720p and 1080i/p.

The home screen I am working on right now is native 1080 and that looks a lot nicer then a scaled up 720p. I thought Aeon was beautiful till I realized that for it to be beautiful I would have to redo the whole thing in 1080p which I fear I am not (yet) skilled enough to even try.

i have done just that with my skin, and it is worth doing but believe me it will take you a while Smile
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#7
Well Aeon, is a whole different ball game for now first of all I would like to get my own design in working order. At this point it is an empty skin (by wir3d) with a hand crafted home screen that doesn't yet come close to what I want it to look like but for a single weekend it is a lot more then I expected. Big Grin

I think in the end if I can make my skin work the way I want it to I'll just use that, why else put all the work in Oo so I might just skip on the Aeon work as there would take a lot of work to move that from 720 to 1080 even if all the graphics are already there.
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#8
A static image interlaced is the same as the static image in progressive since the only difference is the order the lines are drawn. It'll still draw the entire image at the same place so you won't be able to tell it was drawn every other line or all at once. The only reason interlacing is less desirable in video is because when the frame moves it draws every other line before filling in the missing lines so you'll get a slight combing effect if the frame movement is large. This doesn't apply to still frames.

Also keep in mind all broadcast TV (with the exception of 720p and 480p ATSC) is and always was interlaced. The reason sports channels tend towards 720p is because their content is higher motion and that's more important to them than the higher pixel count. The reason discovery HD and the like is in 1080i is because the picture quality is more important to them than the lack of combing on fast motion.
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#9
andyblac Wrote:Aeon is NOT 1080p, it is 720p with 1080p textures, so they are scaled down to 720p then scaled up to what your XBMC is set to. so 2 scales that does effect quality. just compare my multiplex coverflow with the original aeon coverflow @ 1080p zero gaggies on them

When I made my night mod of aeon, the images were not scaled down to 720p and then up to 1080... do you know how bad that would look? The code looks like 720p but Aeon doesn't upscale the images in 1080p... it looks 1:1 to photoshop... but you have to make shure that the size in the code is exactly 1,5 times smaller than the resolution of the image (that's because some images in Aeon might look a little blurry). Also Djh didn't make the images absolutely sharp and perfect to the pixel (because you don't need to for viewing it on the tv). I see your skin is fully coded in 1080p and that makes it sure easier to code but you are wrong if you say the images in Aeon are only scaled from 720p because that's just not the case. You have full 1080p bliss with Aeon, you maybe have to modify the code a little bit... i did that in my night mod to ensure that all images are displayed 1:1 in 1920x1080.
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#10
`Black Wrote:When I made my night mod of aeon, the images were not scaled down to 720p and then up to 1080... do you know how bad that would look? The code looks like 720p but Aeon doesn't upscale the images in 1080p... it looks 1:1 to photoshop... but you have to make shure that the size in the code is exactly 1,5 times smaller than the resolution of the image (that's because some images in Aeon might look a little blurry). Also Djh didn't make the images absolutely sharp and perfect to the pixel (because you don't need to for viewing it on the tv). I see your skin is fully coded in 1080p and that makes it sure easier to code but you are wrong if you say the images in Aeon are only scaled from 720p because that's just not the case. You have full 1080p bliss with Aeon, you maybe have to modify the code a little bit... i did that in my night mod to ensure that all images are displayed 1:1 in 1920x1080.

you don't get me, all the code in aeon is coded for 720p, and therefore the skinning engine has to scale the image down to 720p (reduce it by 75%). it is not displayed @ 1:1 but 0.75:1, then the skinning engine scales up again to 1080p (150%) yes it it will look better than a 720p texture scaled up to 1080p, but aeon is NOT a 1080p skin.
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#11
I get you but the quality is (with right image sizes) the same as if you make it full 1080p. The fonts are vector so it makes obviously no difference and the images are displayed in their native size if you have e.g. an image which is 960x540 and in the code it's 640x360. XBMC "scales" the size to 960x540 which is the native size of the image so it's displayed 1:1 and not scaled at all. It's exactly the same as it looks when you do it in photoshop. The skinning engine is scaling the sizes in the code but that does not affect the images if you code it right. In Aeon it's not always 1,5 times smaller, for example if there's an image which is 877x652 and in the code you have 584x434 it might look a little blurred because 584*1,5 != 877 ... so if you code in 1080p it's easier and you don't have to look that the image size is always separable by 1,5. Smile
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#12
well, all i can say is, i would not have spent a month recoding my skin if i did not see a difference Smile, you will see a improvement on an image that has a gradient tint on a transparent background. on the 1080p skin version there is no blurring/artifacts on the 720p skin with the same image files there is.
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#13
andyblac Wrote:you don't get me, all the code in aeon is coded for 720p, and therefore the skinning engine has to scale the image down to 720p (reduce it by 75%). it is not displayed @ 1:1 but 0.75:1, then the skinning engine scales up again to 1080p (150%) yes it it will look better than a 720p texture scaled up to 1080p, but aeon is NOT a 1080p skin.

i've been hearing different stories about this for as long as i can remember.
maybe one of the devs could be so kind to provide us the definite answer?
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#14
Purely from a logical point of view this is a simple to explain problem.

Using a image with 1920x1080 dimensions and 1280x720 display resolution that means that somehow the number of pixes needs to be reduced from 2073600 to 921600 that is a whopping 1152000 less pixels and thus less detail on the screen.
Regardless of how it is done which algorithms etc. are used the result is the same a lose of resolution and clarity.

Aeon might have been originally intended to run at 1080p but the skin at the moment is 720p, one can of course have XBMC simply blow up all the elements but the thing that happens then is that the image is first shrunk from 1080 to 720 after which it is blown up to 1080 again. Thus you will loose the resolution no mater if you start with a 1080p or even bigger resolution image or not.

I actually tested this by simply creating a home screen skin in a PAL folder and having XBMC display this on a very old TV (you know the fishbowl kind). The difference was very clear, when you set a 1920x1080 background image (some fanart from themoviedb) to display correctly on a PAL screen (576x720) then the image is scaled down to that size.
When you then make XBMC display that same thing on a fullHD screen the image will be the same low resolution but now stretched to fill the screen which is not a pretty sight at all...

To get the highest possible image clarity and quality the best way to do it is to create a skin that is tailored to exactly the size of the screen you are working on, with all images being exactly the right size to fit on the screen. The scaling up or down trick is not a good idea if you are looking for the maximum in resolution and image clarity.
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#15
Look at this (Aeon 720p code - click on the image to see full size):
Image

Does that look scaled? No, it doesn't....
Now here the settings panelback how it looks not scaled and then how it would look if you scale it down to 720 and than back up to 1080.

Not scaled
Image

Scaled
Image
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1080i but not 1080p?0