Projector friendliness ideas - XBMC features/function to be friendly for projectors?
#1
Lightbulb 
Hi All,

This is a thread to discuss ideas specific for using XBMC with a projector. Most use is the same as with a normal screen, but with a projector you run into some specific issues.

To start with some:

CIH (Constant Image Height) setups
These need support for automatic zooming (of the projector hardware, not in software).

'mikper' has already done some work here.

Avoid menus
While my better half can accept the occasional fiddling she (and I) hates sudden menus popping up during a movie. The reason I mention it here is that it is really more obnoxious in a dark room where the screen is two meters wide - on a TV with the lights on it is just not that big an issue.

Which means no "show a menu if the mouse moves a fraction" and also any feature you might reasonably need while watching (audio sync, subtitle sync, subtitle position, etc) must optionally function without a menu. The easiest quickfix is setting the "pixels to move mouse before showing cursor" higher, preferable using advanced settings and hope it will be accepted into XBMC.

External DVD subtitles
Not because of languages not available on disc, but mostly because DVD subtitles are just too big on a projected screen.

I am working on this, but it is slow going - too much code all over the place and too little time ;-)

Vertical image shift
Locating a video edge to the screen edge is sometimes important cause of the perceived contrast.

I already supplied a patch for this myself.
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#2
Aardvark Wrote:Avoid menus
Which means no "show a menu if the mouse moves a fraction" and also any feature you might reasonably need while watching (audio sync, subtitle sync, subtitle position, etc) must optionally function without a menu. The easiest quickfix is setting the "pixels to move mouse before showing cursor" higher, preferable using advanced settings and hope it will be accepted into XBMC.

that's a easy one. disconnect the damn rat. the others are all available for keymapping.
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#3
spiff Wrote:that's a easy one. disconnect the damn rat. the others are all available for keymapping.

Even easier... disable mouse support in xbmc settings...
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#4
spiff Wrote:that's a easy one. disconnect the damn rat. the others are all available for keymapping.

While I appreciate the elegance of your solution, in this case there is nothing to map to: the system does not even have a keyboard :o

For normal viewing only the remote is used. But using a remote for everything is a pain for things like scrolling through very long lists or navigating complicated setting screens. And only disconnecting the mouse while actually watching the movie is not an option either as that would mean searching in the dark for a miniature RF receiver at the back of the HTPC :-)

What surprises me the most is that nobody else seems to mind the menu popping up unexpectedly if you only so much as point at your rodent... Last time I used a vanilla XBMC even the sub sometimes moved the mouse Rolleyes
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#5
that's because one of the first things i do is disable the mouse. and imo scrolling with a mouse is much worse than a remote. i just use sms jump in long lists...
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#6
spiff Wrote:imo scrolling with a mouse is much worse than a remote. i just use sms jump in long lists...

I think that is indeed one of those 'imo' things. I like dragging the scrollbar - with one move I go to the bottom and if I overshoot I can drag back a bit. But to each his/her own. I could never explain sms jumping to the rest of my family - for them its only up/down with the remote or drag/scroll with the mouse. PageUp/Down on the remote is already too complicated for them to remember ;-)
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#7
I agree a htpc is no place for a mouse. There are some nice remotes out there.


Most skins allow you select the scrollbar. From here you can scroll much faster and use the popup letters to decide when to stop.
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#8
anyways, just to be clear, an advancedsetting to set a threshold and possibly a optimized default value would be welcome.
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#9
I'd prefer just an optimized default - atm I think it's just a couple of pixels - could probably get away with say 5% of the screenheight instead. After all, if you want to use it you'll be quite happy to move it more than that.
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#10
Another suggestion: More flexible subtitles positioning
Currently XBMC has really not_user_friendly solution to vertically shift subtitles - we have to enter video calibration to do it.

My idea: allow user to decide if:
  • bottom of subtitles = bottom of video
  • top of subtitles = bottom of video
  • vertical middle of subtitles = vertical middle of bottom "black bar"
  • and current solution: setting absolute position of bottom of subtitles
XBMC should ensure that subtitles are vissible (bottom of subtitles < screen/window height)

I would also remove it from video calibration - I really feel that it was placed there just because it need to be somewhere, but this is no place for it in my opinion.

I could code it if i'll get green light from You guys.
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#11
Remember that any subtitles _cannot_ be positioned like this as they're supposed to be shown in a fixed position.

I don't have a problem with allowing subtitle position to be variable if (and only if) it's kept simple.
Always read the XBMC online-manual, FAQ and search the forum before posting.
Do not e-mail XBMC-Team members directly asking for support. Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first.


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#12
jmarshall Wrote:Remember that any subtitles _cannot_ be positioned like this as they're supposed to be shown in a fixed position.

I don't have a problem with allowing subtitle position to be variable if (and only if) it's kept simple.

I agree with grajen3 that subtitle position could be removed from the video calibration. Personally I would expect to be able to set the subtitle position from the "System->Settings->Video->Subtitles" menu.

As for subtitles being in a fixed position - I submitted a patch that allows you to choose if you want the subtitle position to be relative to the display dimension (the current behavior) or the video frame dimension of the playing video (http://trac.xbmc.org/ticket/10281). What the patch does is to determine the height of the lower black bar and shift the subtitle position up by that amount. That means that when you set the subtitle position in video calibration dialog with the new option enabled, you should be aware that the distance from the screen bottom is actually the distance from the video frame bottom.

This way I have the subtitles always inside the video frame, something that I find very useful in a CIH (constant image height) setup. It has also been mentionend in a few other threads:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=81710
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=80582
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=80582

Thanks to Aardvark and grajen3 for suggestions and help on this (and other) issues Big Grin

Cheers,
Mikael
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#13
grajen3 Wrote:Another suggestion: More flexible subtitles positioning
(...)
I could code it if i'll get green light from You guys.

There is already a patch for easier subs up/down (actioncode, just map a key) at http://trac.xbmc.org/ticket/10281. Within the next few hours I will add my patch there which aligns subtitles automatically with top or bottom of image, and inside or outside image. And still it is possible to offset that a few pixels manually if you feel the need. Also it makes sure all subs are on screen whatever the location of video or offset.
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#14
Hi mikper - you won by a few seconds :-)
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#15
jmarshall Wrote:Remember that any subtitles _cannot_ be positioned like this as they're supposed to be shown in a fixed position.

Why? This is just a misconception forced upon us by the inventors of the DVD format. One of the main reasons I still do not have a commercial dedicated media center is they do not allow you to shift subtitles. It is _my_ screen, _I_ want to decide where the subtitles end up, whether I want them inside the video or below or at the top.

(And please don't take this rant personally. Together with butchered aspect ratios this is one of my most emotional movie watching issues Blush)
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Projector friendliness ideas - XBMC features/function to be friendly for projectors?0