FreeNAS vs Ubuntu as a server
#1
Hi all.

Recently I 'upgraded' my server from FreeNAS of about 12 months old to Ubuntu.

I just wanted to post that it was a positive change.

Anyone considering the two should definitely use Ubuntu.

Before, freenas worked, and it worked well, however customising was difficult and popular utilities (such as transmission) were behind on updates compared to other systems.

So I converted my system over to Ubuntu. Its ubuntu desktop with vnc and loads of other stuff installed and works much better.

I hate to say it, but its also Faster. SMB is faster and more stable now (I dont know why) and configuration was easier using nautilus. I can run sabnzbd, etc without much config changes and I am much happier for the experience.

So if you're considering a NAS/Server for XBMC, then definitely Ubuntu is the way to go.
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#2
Yeah I agree - I really don't see the point in FreeNAS/UNRaid etc - if you want a NAS (ie low low power, ver simple etc, then use a real NAS - but if you need (or already have) real computer hardware, you might as well run it as a full server computer and you can do much more with it, and more easily.

I actually use Win7 on mine because I also play the odd game on it, but ubuntu makes a lot of sense!
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Sorry, no help w/out a *full debug log*.
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#3
again, i must agree... i started my nas project with freenas but soon had to switch to ubuntu (server) when i realized that it was quite difficult to run all the servers i needed within freenas, as i needed to have a bearerbox server and should have had to recompile the whole kernel on my own just to have ttyUSB support... more, now i can run a headless amuled and jdownloader server, all controlled remotely and without any video card, just with a remote vnc x (fluxbox) session... the only thing really missing in this installment is ZFS, but i really can live without it, for now at least Smile
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#4
parity drive... I want my data backed up in case of a drive failure. does ubuntu sever off this?

does ubuntu server spin down drives not being used ?

-=Jason=-
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#5
Ubuntu Server (and desktop with some mods) can run software RAID 0, 1, 5 and 6
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Instal...ftwareRAID. And you can also add a raid card if you need a more than ubuntu offers out of the box.

Parity is related to the type of RAID being used, so if you use raid 1, 5 or 6 you will have data redundancy (always 50% of the drives used in raid 1, 1 drive for raid 5 and 2 for raid 6). This isn't a 'special' feature of freeNAS or Uniraid.

As for drive spin down, you can actually set the time interval.

And I completely agree with the OP. Ubuntu server (or desktop if you want a UI) are the best for any 'full size' (i.e. not just a NAS) server. You have far more flexibility and scope. It takes more to set up than the pre-configured OSes like freeNAS and UNRaid, but the end result is exactly what you want.

(Other flavours of linux are available and arguably better, but I like ubuntu and I know how to use it)
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#6
I am currently looking at buying a new computer as my media server but still undecided on what platform to choose.

Initially I was going to go ZFS using OpenSolaris but since it's no longer supported it was down to FreeNAS or unRaid. Both had their pros and cons.

Since I am new to RAID and Linux, I'm a bit confused on what will work or not. If Ubuntu server is as good as you guys say, do you think that would be a better option compared to the other software RAID options? If so, I may even use it initially as my media centre as well until I get enough cash to get small ION HTPC. Or is it best to keep the two separate?

Also I have read articles and forum posts on various sites regarding potential issues with the green drives or 4k blocks HDs (i think) being used in RAID setups. I was hoping to get maybe 4x2TB drives (2 one brand and 2 another to minimise multiple failure), but they are generally green or 4k blocks. Would this pose an issue for the Ubuntu software RAID?
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#7
Ubuntu server has no UI so can be a bit intimidating to a beginner, but if you were planning to use OpenSolaris then I assume you know your way round a cli.

If you want a file store, with some basic features like back up scheduling and/or a torrent client then a conventional NAS will be more than sufficient.

But if you are looking for a system that can host couchpotato, sickbeard, sabnzbd, automated tasks (sort TV, embermm), TV back end (MythTV or TVHeadend etc), WAN remote access to administer it all from (a web interface, VPN, SSH); then you need a full server and imo you are best off using ubuntu server/desktop (or other linux distro if you prefer).

(I know there are some NAS that are capable of doing some of the above, but I think they are better handled by a full featured server)

Edit: As far as I can find on the ubuntu forums and guides, ubuntu's raid is fine with 4k sectors, and can in fact mix 4k and 512b drives in the same array (although I don't think any one would actively recommend it).
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#8
Lime Wrote:I am currently looking at buying a new computer as my media server but still undecided on what platform to choose.

Personally, I can recommend the Shuttle XS35GT as it is fanless, an so it is silent. See this thread if that appeals: http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=74974

Lime Wrote:Initially I was going to go ZFS using OpenSolaris but since it's no longer supported it was down to FreeNAS or unRaid. Both had their pros and cons.

After Oracle killed OpenSolaris, the codebase has been forked and is known as OpenIndiana - see here: http://openindiana.org/download/

I run OpenSolaris build 134 (last Sun/Oracle released version) with success using ZFS etc, and OpenIndiana starts off their releases with build 147 so it should be good.

Lime Wrote:If so, I may even use it initially as my media centre as well until I get enough cash to get small ION HTPC. Or is it best to keep the two separate?

I would strongly recommend the 2 box approach: http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=84039

Lime Wrote:Also I have read articles and forum posts on various sites regarding potential issues with the green drives or 4k blocks HDs (i think) being used in RAID setups. I was hoping to get maybe 4x2TB drives (2 one brand and 2 another to minimise multiple failure), but they are generally green or 4k blocks. Would this pose an issue for the Ubuntu software RAID?

IIRC, the main performance problems encountered with the new 4K sector drives (Advanced Format) is if the drives are not aligned to the 4K sector, but you'll need to check it out as I don't remember all.

Western Digital deliberately 'lobotomized' their non-enterprise drives to remove the ability to set the TLER. Now only their enterprise ($$$) drives allow setting the time limit before the drives report an error (TLER). Basically cheap drives don't allow limiting this error timeout period as the drive is assumed to be the only drive, and therefore it must try its hardest to recover failing data, but this can take a lot of time, and a RAID controller would usually just drop the drive from the RAID set, which is not good.

Having said that, many home users, including myself, still use non-enterprise drives as they cost only a third to half the cost of the enterprise models. But if using these consumer drives in RAID arrays, it pays to have a couple of parity drives in case a failing drive is kicked from the array. It's not happened to me yet, but it might happen one day. And backups make sense too, but some people will prefer instead just to re-rip media and keep no backups. Personal choice.
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#9
I have my unRaid sever fully automating my downloads. SABnzbd,Sickbeard,Couchpotato, I do not mess with torrents so thats not an issue. all controlled via web browser in house or remotely.

as far as the WD Green drives go: they are Advanced Formatted and its very wise to put a jumper in pins 7/8 no matter what OS they are being used in before formatting or transferring any data to them.

-=Jason=-
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#10
I just recently went Ubuntu Server. I was thinking NAS, then FreeNas, etc and just opted to go Ubuntu Server. I'm not a linux guy, but so far it seems pretty decent.

For the hardware, I went Asus M4A88TD-M thinking I was going to take advantage of the built in RAID, but remembered my old days of raid and the dependency on hardware. Software RAID made sense, I stuffed 4 1TD drives in there and have been very happy.

For a processor, I got a little 45W Athlon II X2 240e processor and it's more than able to keep up. Running Samba, SABNzbd+, SickbBeard, CouchPotato and even a Murmur server, no troubles... Serving up media to two XBMC clients...

Next up, I want to add TV capture and see how it fares, might hit the limit there, but I can get more horsepower in there if need be.

Still a work on progress, but I'm not switching out...
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#11
Hi All,

If using a Linux-based XBMC install(s) too ditch the SMB connection. NFS blows Samba out of the water.

I went from 20-30 MB/s writes with Samba to 120 MB/s writes over the network using NFS; that's writes so reads for XBMC will be just as fast. 960 Mbps is maxing out the gigabit so can't get much faster Big Grin

Other particulars of my Server setup are i3-540, 4GB DDR3, 6 x 1.5 TB drives; 3 x WDEARS + 3 x WDEADS, raid 5 using mdadm.

The WD Green drives work fine; on 24/7 not a single drop-out. You just need to partition the EARS drives properly -PLUS- I disabled the Intellipark for all of them. Have a script to monitor all the major smartctl stats and email to myself every night.

-------------------------------------

Clarifying too that this 'Server' is actually a Mythbuntu desktop...do all my Handbrake transcoding, Ember Media Manager on Virtualbox, and general desktop use on this box too.
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#12
Like the op, I have been researching the different options for myself. I looked at Ubuntu, free nas, unRaid, etc.

I had a few requirements for whatever I chose:
-Redundancy through parity preferable as duplication takes too much room
-Nice to have capability to withstand 2 drive failures would be a bonus
-Not have to spin up all the disk for every access (for energy, noise, and drive wear)
-Able to serve 3 blu-ray mkv HD streams at once (worst case scenario for me)
-Easy to setup and use
-Works with Windows since that is where most of my apps are

I didn't want a typical RAID solution that keeps ALL the drives spinning even if I write/read a small file off of it. This produces more noise, heat, and drive wear. Plus, if the raid controller goes down I can't take a drive out and insert it into another computer and read off the disk.

I can live with the speed of a single hard drive (which can max GigE anyways) since I am not a datacenter with tons of users on it. I just need casual access to files in my data pool. I like the JBOD/WHS DE/Spanning approach in that it looks like one large drive. JBOD and Spanning are too risky if a drive goes your screwed. I like WHS DE but duplication takes too much space. In the new WHS Vail they took a MAJOR plus away from the first version. In WHS you can pull a drive and read it like any other NTFS drive on another computer. The new DE eliminates this as it writes in 1gb blocks to the hard drives.

After doing some research I found 1 solution to my needs at least. I feel it ties in perfectly to a home media XBMC style approach. The one that really caught my eye was FlexRaid.

I am not trying to pimp flexraid out but just give a heads up since it is pretty new. Flexraid works on Linux AND Windows (even WHS). You can assign whole drives, folders, or even single files to create an array. You can assign multiple parity drives all setup however you like. It uses a Raid 4 or Raid 6 setup. It is super easy to use with the web gui or cli. With FlexRaid view it presents itself as one large data pool. You can create virtual views and even virtual folders for files sorted off their metadata if you want (like a separate folder view for all your music sorted by years or genre) -soon to be implemented.

You can create/delete the array (even with existing data on the drives) and recreate it without losing your data (the array config is stored in a separate file). You can pull a drive from the array and read it from any other computer as it's a standard NTFS setup. Drives not being used are powered down (following your OS settings). You can manage the array through the web gui across the network if you wish.

It took awhile to get my head around the way the array works since I am used to a more typical raid approach. Anyways, try it out and see if you like it. If you don't, just uninstall it. Your data won't be touched. I am using it right now and I am highly impressed!

NOTES:
The software is relatively new so documentation is lacking. For info you need to go to the forums. Also, for 64 bit Windows users, there is a new build coming in a few days as soon as the developer get's his signed driver certificate in. The build is done just waiting to package for the cert. I would wait for it to try it out. The new Linux build is done.

The parity is "snapshot" based. You set a schedule via the gui on when to RSynch the parity. This makes it perfect for data that is not changed often like movies, shows, and music (media). There are verify functions as well to make sure the data is intact. The developer is making a "live" version that will not be snapshot based and also developing a "Nas" version. He is also going to implement a "self healing" feature to prevent failing hard drive data corruption (I think this is from ZFS to protect against bit rot correct?).

Sorry to all if that was a bit long.
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#13
Flexraid is neat, but until it has stable live parity I will personally stick with Unraid. That is a REALLY big deal to me, but might not be to others....

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#14
Good news for you. The developer said on the 26th he is slowly wrapping up with FlexRaid live. Does your media collection really change that much? Have it snapshot every night at midnight or something. This way, you would only lose the movies/shows/data you added on the drive that failed that same day. Otherwise, it would be protected.

To each their own but UnRaid is too constrictive to me. On my server I have: Flexraid running, uTorrent running with its web gui, MySQL DB for the XBMC clients, TV recording, Ember MM scraping data, my WII Iso manager for managing backup Wii games, a Virtual Machine manager, Media Monkey to maintain a clean music collection for XBMC, etc. Anything a Windows PC can do (or Linux and OSX through a VM) is available to me.

I use Flexraid to serve my media (3 shares: movies, music, tv shows) from the server to XBMC clients all synced with MySQL. I have an independent drive to record live TV from the four HDHomerun tuners. These are usually watched and then deleted. Some shows we like are pushed over to the TV Shows directory (under Flexraid) for XBMC to archive and keep.

I run uTorrent on the server OS harddrive to keep the other drives from spinning up if not in use to be later upon completion sorted. WHS is ran through the VM (setting up today and using 2 RAW disc) to serve docs and pics (with duplication enabled) since these can't be replaced and also for remote access.

Another benefit is FlexRaid is free while UnRaid charges $70 for Plus (6 drives) and $120 for Pro (20 drives). The basic version of UnRaid is free but only for 3 drives and does not support user level access.
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#15
Just a question:

How come there is very little mention in these XBMC forums of plain, old-school mdadm as a raid solution?

Any reason besides personal preference of course! Big Grin

mdadm is open-source, completely hardware independent, good raid5 performance, widely supported in Linux and tons of documentation for it.

Said system - i3-540, 4GB DDR3, 6 x 1.5 TB drives - only uses 110 watts idle with approx 38 C system temp and with proper monitoring you can handle any drive failures before losing data.

HW cards seem expensive and dangerous unless you have spares...unRAID seems to close to proprietary for my liking...not looking for a flame-bait just curious why I see so little mention of mdadm as a valid solution on these forums?
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