Further increase voice volume?
#31
krusade Wrote:Thanks for the link and the answer, ajayrockrock. However, I believe messing around with your system drivers, especially on linux, is not the right solution for a problem that is specific to a piece of software. From what I understand, "normalizing" applies a procedure over an entire range of audio frequencies. That is not only an unelegant solution (a desperate one, maybe), but it's not very effective either. What we need is for the volume of specific channels to be properly adjusted before downmixing. This I believe is the only real solution and it lyes with the developers of XBMC. We can only hope they will aknowledge this rather serious issue and come up with a solution. Individual volume slider for each channel would pe perfect, I think.

Completely agree. I am surprised that not more people comment on this issue. Issue may not be as severe for tv shows and comedies, but action movies are basically not watchable without constantly playing with the volume (or using sub-titles).

Krusade, you refer to this being caused by "down-mixing"? When is "down-mixing" happening and can I prevent XBMC to do so? In what configurations? I assume that very few people experience what you and I are experincing as otherwise this threat would be full with comments.
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#32
steve1977, I am sure I'm not the most appropriate person to explain this, as I am not knowledgeable enough in audio technology. With my limited knowledge I can tell you I believe downmixing is the process by which an audio signal is converted from one number of channels to a lower number of channels. So if a video piece has a 6 channel audio track and you only have a 2 speaker setup (like I have), or a 2.1 channel setup, there has to be some...downmixing of those channels in order for the whole audio stream to fit on your 2 channels.

I think downmixing concerns people that don't have a 5.1 audio system. But I didn't say this whole issue is "caused" by downmixing; what I think is that if this issue is to be properly solved, something has to be done before the downmixing stage. If a channel is a lot louder than the others, its individual volume has to be adjusted before they are all mixed together. The problem seems to be that in XBMC the voice channel comes with a very very low volume. So if you want to hear the voices properly, you have to have every other sound at blasting levels. Also, there is no way to adjust the volume separately for each channel, so this doesn't affect only people who lack a 5.1 audio system. Movies have different volume levels for every channel so I believe a good solution for this would be to have volume sliders for each channel inside the XBMC settings. That way everybody can adjust volume accordingly without messing with the sound settings for their other applications. For people with 2.0 or 2.1 setups, the downmixing would be done with channels that are already adjusted.

I don't think there are just a few people who experience this. Perhaps people just got used to do remote control jockeying or to tinker with the driver controls or the hardware knobs trying to correct this issue from outside XBMC. Which is unfortunate, because more reporting of this issue would perhaps help developers aknowledge it and find a solution for it.
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#33
I was always under the impression DTS sound tracks are designed to be extra loud on action scenes to give the viewer that cinema experience??
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#34
sdburg Wrote:I was always under the impression DTS sound tracks are designed to be extra loud on action scenes to give the viewer that cinema experience??

That may be so. I couldn't find any source on this, but it is possible they took that into consideration when they created the standard. However, I doubt such a wide gap in sound volume among channels could be the result of a design feature. Besides, allowing the user to control the volume to their liking makes a lot more sense than imposing a rigid "proper" experience on everybody. Neighbours may not be fans of their end of your cinema experience Smile
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#35
Here's a start on dynamic range compression: https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/commit/31e6...69d62d8432
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#36
bobo1on1 Wrote:Here's a start on dynamic range compression: https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/commit/31e6...69d62d8432

Great news!!, I've often wished for something like this to be implemented Big Grin

Hopefully this will help alleviate the center channel volume issues
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#37
bobo1on1 Wrote:Here's a start on dynamic range compression: https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/commit/31e6...69d62d8432

Thank you so much bobo1on1!! Seems to be exactly what I was searching for in the first place! Looking forward to have it in release builds.
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#38
bobo1on1 Wrote:Here's a start on dynamic range compression: https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/commit/31e6...69d62d8432

Ok, I'm not sure what this will do exactly (not a coder, perhaps somebody will explain it to the layman), but thank you, bobo1on1, for addressing this issue. If this start is a step in the right direction it will be a real improvement of the XBMC experience.
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#39
bobo1on1 Wrote:Here's a start on dynamic range compression: https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/commit/31e6...69d62d8432

Excellent News!!!
Hope to see some nicely tweakable options. Smile
.
Cheers
ubuntuf4n
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#40
interesting read ish. http://www.dts.com/
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#41
I think the main issue here is this.

On a 5.1 source you have 6 channels.

Left Front
Right Front
Centre
Rear Left
Rear Right
Bass (.1)

What happens with down mixing is it takes Left, and Right and passes it through to the left channel and right channel at 100% volume. However with the main VOICE channel it seems to reduce the volume by 50% and send half to the left and half to the right; as some kind of rudimentary way of normalizing the audio. When in fact it should be taking the centre channel (normally voice/dialogue) and putting out at 100% on both sides.

Then in the moments of a film when you hit music/sound effects its blaring loud because these effects come through at DOUBLE the volume of the voice channel that you've probably adjusted your volume too.

Does this make sense to anyone else?
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#42
It sort of makes sense. I see what you mean but I'm not sure that's what happens.

In my mind the mroe likely problem is that the effects are also rpesent in the rear left and right. That signal is also mixed in here, giving you "extra" audio information for the effects.
Now, I don't remember the math for this, been too long since I did take any audio related classes but this could result in a boost of volume for the effects, aka action sequences, in effect drowning out the center channel.
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#43
steve1977 Wrote:Unfortunately, my 2-CH amplifier doesn't even have an option to increase midrange (only bass, which doesn't make any difference). Also, the difference between voice and non-voice audio is so huge for action movies that I am not confident that this manual adjustment would be sufficient.

Given that it works with VLC, is there anything else I can explore?
I know this is an old post Im quoting but
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=88719
You can use Alsaequal (alsa equalizer) to adjust the midrange
cheers
Wozza
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#44
ShabbyDog Wrote:It sort of makes sense. I see what you mean but I'm not sure that's what happens.

In my mind the mroe likely problem is that the effects are also rpesent in the rear left and right. That signal is also mixed in here, giving you "extra" audio information for the effects.
Now, I don't remember the math for this, been too long since I did take any audio related classes but this could result in a boost of volume for the effects, aka action sequences, in effect drowning out the center channel.

After reflecting on your reply; I think what you're saying makes more sense.

Perhaps there should be a way to reduce the volume on the FL/FR/RL/RR channels in unison. By default I would probably set them to 75% of Centre Channel if down-mixing.
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#45
ForeverNixNub Wrote:I think the main issue here is this.

On a 5.1 source you have 6 channels.

Left Front
Right Front
Centre
Rear Left
Rear Right
Bass (.1)

What happens with down mixing is it takes Left, and Right and passes it through to the left channel and right channel at 100% volume. However with the main VOICE channel it seems to reduce the volume by 50% and send half to the left and half to the right; as some kind of rudimentary way of normalizing the audio. When in fact it should be taking the centre channel (normally voice/dialogue) and putting out at 100% on both sides.

Then in the moments of a film when you hit music/sound effects its blaring loud because these effects come through at DOUBLE the volume of the voice channel that you've probably adjusted your volume too.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

This seems like the an accurate description of the problem. Watching a 5.1 movie on a 2.0 system sounds like crap. Music and sound effects are double the voice tracks volume.
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Further increase voice volume?0