[The-Boxhead]

Im on ION Atom330 plattform running latest xbmc Dharma, ubuntu karmic and nvidia 265 drivers.

I get 20 drops during the killa sample, i pause when fading starts.
If i enable "adjust display refresh rate to match video" i get 54 drops.

So im guessing 60Hz is better than trying to match movie refresh rate ?

How does other ION/ATOM users do it on the killa sample ?
As i understand it's normal do get frame drops with this sample in the start, i get all my 20 drops right in the start then no more frame drops

[_Andy_]

Sorry for being stupid.i don't know the scene you are talking about.

Can you tell me the movie name or the link to the scene?

I want to test it myself. Sounds interresting.

[harryzimm]

Here is a link to the killasample.mkv

cheers

[Draega]

I have an ION 330 running Dharma and nvidia 260 drivers and I get 18 drops. 20 drops with "adjust display refresh rate to match video". As you said they all happen right at first then it's smooth.

[davilla]

Waaaaaaaaaah, I get one dropped frame. Something must be seriously wrong

[BORIStheBLADE]

I get 18 drop frames XBMC Live. They are mostly in the beginning too.

ASUS AT5IONT-I Intel Atom D525 (ION 2)

[vikjon0]

I also get 18 in xbmc-live 10 and they are ALL in the very beginning. with 9.11 I was down to 2-3 depending on driver version and possibly xorg config.

I assume that as long as all the error is in the very beginning of the file it is more to do with error/disturbance tolerance than performance.

[The-Boxhead]

Okay, seems im pretty much on par with rest of ION systems.

Davilla do i smell some sarcasm as to the killa sample test ?
I know it's been discussed before but do you bellive that the killa sample test
is not a good benchmark ?

[Gryph]

I'm in agreeance with Davilla here, seeing this minor amount of dropped frames on this sample cause you any other problems when viewing other movies?
Do you see anything noticeable?

That sample in particular has been encoded (without going into depths of it) at a rate more so something you probably don't see too often, from what I've seen it is quite rare, this 1080p, 33.1 Mbps 5.1 profile 16 ref frames video sequence you probably will get minor dropped frames at the very start, but you won't notice any difference.

This is the info ripped from the file itself:

Code:

Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format/Url                       : http://developers.videolan.org/x264.html
Commercial name                  : AVC
Format profile                   : [email protected]
Format settings                  : CABAC / 16 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames        : 16
Format settings, ReFrames        : 16 frames
InternetMediaType                : video/H264
Codec ID                         : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Codec ID/Url                     : http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/
Codec                            : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Codec                            : AVC
Codec/Family                     : AVC
Codec/Info                       : Advanced Video Codec
Codec/Url                        : http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/
Codec profile                    : [email protected]
Codec settings                   : CABAC / 16 Ref Frames
Codec settings, CABAC            : Yes
Codec_Settings_RefFrames         : 16

Yes, I do see some "minor" dropped frames at the very start, but every works as it should, I do no notice these, I'm not that anal and state everything must have zero dropped frames.

Here I have a different encoded higher bit rate sample of the EXACT sequence, this is 42 Mbs encoded sample, 4.1 profile and 4 reference frames, which is a more common encoding I have seen (not the 42Mbs - I went the extreme with that one).

What do I see? I see one dropped frame.

This is the output of this specific file:

Code:

Unique ID                        : 1
Format                           : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video CodecFormat/Url                       : http://developers.videolan.org/x264.htmlCommercial name                  : AVCFormat profile                   : [email protected] settings                  : CABAC / 4 Ref FramesFormat settings, CABAC           : Yes
Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames        : 4
Format settings, ReFrames        : 4 frames
InternetMediaType                : video/H264
Codec ID                         : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Codec ID/Url                     : http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/
Codec                            : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Codec                            : AVC
Codec/Family                     : AVC
Codec/Info                       : Advanced Video Codec
Codec/Url                        : http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/
Codec profile                    : [email protected]
Codec settings                   : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Codec settings, CABAC            : Yes
Codec_Settings_RefFrames         : 4

So, really in conclusion, it can be used to test your systems performance, but I wouldn't really complain about seeing X amount of dropped frames on something that is encoded in such a moggy way.

I would be more concerned if I was SEEING dropped frames when I was watching something in my every day collection, from every movie.

[The-Boxhead]

I wasnt really concerned about a few dropped frames, obviously it quite normal. I was more curious as to if i had to many dropped frames
in this sample as compared to other ion users, then something would be wrong with my setup. Or maybe this is also the wrong way of looking at it ?

For example if aproxx 20drops is normal on a stock ION atom 330 system with this sample, i have a way to test if something
really weird happens with my movies. Like if i suddenly should get 350drops on this sample i must have done something wrong to the system ?

I have the famous noticable stutter in regular 720p 1080p in movies that
has large panorama scenes. i.e where a camera has a bird's eaye view over a city and the camera pans across. Hmmm how to explain this in a good way ?

Seems like some users believe that getting the tv 24fps instead of the regular 50 or 60Hz refresh is nirvana for these problems. As my TV doesent seem to support 24Hz i was looking for other possible bottle necks.

[Gryph]

I have the famous noticable stutter in regular 720p 1080p in movies that has large panorama scenes. i.e where a camera has a bird's eaye view over a city and the camera pans across. Hmmm how to explain this in a good way ?

Seems like some users believe that getting the tv 24fps instead of the regular 50 or 60Hz refresh is nirvana for these problems. As my TV doesent seem to support 24Hz i was looking for other possible bottle necks.

What is your default video mode 1080@60? As from the sound of that it seems like it's the frame rate judder from viewing a 24p source on a 60Hz resolution.

This Link has some lovely information regarding that issue.

Now, the 2nd sample I used can be found here. A higher bitrate, but lower encoding, you'll probably notice less dropped frames from this.

Now, I may be wrong, and someone else can correct me, but the dropped frames will not relate to that juddering effect, as it is your system looking back at the dropped frames, not interrupting the TV.

You could try some modifications to the xorg.conf file - I'm not sure exactly what you have setup in yours.

In your screen section of xorg.conf, try adding:

Code:

Option      "NoFlip"              "True"

and try turning on "adjust display refresh rate to match video"

[davilla]

Davilla do i smell some sarcasm as to the killa sample test ?
I know it's been discussed before but do you bellive that the killa sample test
is not a good benchmark ?

killa is a silly benchmark, you will never run into any media that uses 16 ref frames. In fact, that does not adhere to the 'spec' for h264. So using killa to qualify is in fact, silly.

[vikjon0]

Can you (or anyone else) recommend a sample library? It would be nice with some reference material. 5.1 sound , different formats of audio & video etc. If we have that we can put together a checklist for what should work on a build.

[The-Boxhead]

Interesting read that article Gryph !

My Problem is most likely motion judder caused by 24FPS sources
running at a 60Hz TV which does 3:2 Pulldown.

But the argument going on after the post seems to say that not everything is
as he claims. Though i have learned something:

Code:

[align=left]if a display can take the 24p video from the source and display it natively
at 120 fps or 240 fps it has the advantage of never having to compensate for the judder
distortion and the algorithm can more easily focus on minimizing the poor temporal
resolution. Of course your mileage may vary depending upon the sophistication of
the motion interpolation algorithms in the display. Strangely enough, not all 120Hz
displays can even accept the 24fps inputs.

On the other hand if your display natively displays at an even multiple of 24 such
as 120 fps or 240 fps and the output of the BD player is 60 fps from the source
material at 24 fps, you are splitting responsibilities between two non-cooperative
components. The BD player is trying to generate the interpolated frames to hide
the motion judder and the display is trying to "undo" the motion judder at the
same time it is trying to smooth the motion-flow to compensate for the poor
temporal resolution. It is certainly better to let one device do all the work,
than having them fighting each other.[/align]

So a fast conclusion from reading the article the best way to avoid motion judder is to run the TV at optimal 24FPS if it supports it, or go up to 120Hz.
My older samsung doesent seem to support others than 50 and 60hz, forcing
another resolution might damage my tv right ?

Gryph,
Option "NoFlip" "True"
What does it technically do ?

[gav1577]

I set my tv to 50hz and set av sync method to (video clock) resample audio
to achieve smooth playback with 23.976/24 fps movies.
There is a slight speed up in audio pitch, unnoticeable to most in pal land.
However if you find it noticeable you could use dsplayer and use reclock with pal speed down enabled to take care of pitch correction.