"HOW-TO..." threads dangerous?
#1
I've seen lately that there is many guides in the "how to" forum that is outdated. This can cause some trouble for newbies blindly pasting stuff into
terminal on their linux setup.

Don't get me wrong i love that section, i have to made threads there myself Smile

Maybe put up a sticky warning in there that users need to be careful and check that their system meets the guides specs. Like if you try to install wrong stuff on wrong linux distro/version etc. And everyone that gets moved to that forum should state the following at the top of each org. 1st thread: Version information and system they have or what versions and systems it has been tested with.

Just my two cent's Wink
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#2
I'm not sure that the forum is the best place for HowTo articles. I think users should be directed to wiki.xbmc.org, where it's easier to keep articles up to date or at least to make it clear what software/hardware they apply to.

JR
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#3
Point out those you find dangerous and why, mods can them mark them as outdated
Always read the XBMC online-manual, FAQ and search the forum before posting.
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#4
The-Boxhead Wrote:This can cause some trouble for newbies blindly pasting stuff into terminal on their linux setup.


First off, You're never going to stop that from happening. The vast majority of these people are windows users with a nano second of patience and attention span. They dont care why it works (or doesn't) they just want it spoon fed and RIGHT NOW.

Second...We're talking about an HTPC not the space shuttle. There is no danger. Let'em learn even if its the hard way.

Nothing in those posts can destroy actual movie files so its not a big deal.
Even if there was something that could destroy the movie files a disclaimer would surely be included. Nobody tells you to do something that can destroy movie files without a warning.
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#5
I'm relatively new, original Windows nerd, but have made the switch to Linux. I was clueless about Linux until I discovered XBMC (Windows Media Center switcher!!).

Now I'm blistering along and my HTPC, although a challenge to setup, is the best it will ever be!!

I say, keep them learning the hard way - it's not so bad, so long as you stick with it. Those that dont, their loss. Everythings here to be learnt! Big Grin
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#6
If you want XBMC to be an exclusive club then comments like "Let'em learn even if its the hard way" and "their loss" are reasonable.

JR
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#7
It is obvious that some would rather NOT help someone and take pleasure in their failures, instead of enjoying the fact that you did something to help someone succeed.

Let them learn the hard way, to me that attitude is total bull!

I maybe fairly new here, and I might not be the most knowledgeable, but I am willing to help someone if I can.

If someone isn't willing to help, then they should consider staying out of the discussions.

As for the suggestion of the OP, I would agree with you. I myself had issues with things that weren't really up-to-date.
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#8
Its really as simple as this.

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day.
Teach him to fish, feed him for life.

The HOWTO can teach you but to set you down and put the baby bib on and shovel the goo in is pathetic.

Nobody is saying deliberately withhold required information. But you might have to spend one of those braincells on the task at hand instead of the spliff between your fingers.

Jeez.....If people continue to spoonfeed the windows people you are not doing them or us any favors.

BTW

By exclusive club if you mean "people who are willing to better themselves by working and understanding" then yes I COMPLETELY agree it should be an exclusive club.
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#9
Tight_wad Wrote:Let them learn the hard way, to me that attitude is total bullshit!


HOWTO's and other help (some of which I supply) are spelled out in detail. How much easier would you like it? What else do you require? At some point they (you) have to atleast make an attempt to try and understand what it is thats happening instead of blindly typing in simple commands into a terminal.
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#10
Honestly it seems the biggest offending How-Tos as far as being outdated are mostly related to Linux XBMC. At one point when Linux had hardware acceleration and no other platform did this would be a huge problem, but now that there is a final release with DXVA support anyone who would have trouble in Linux should just go use the Windows version instead (and probably does). Therefore the chance of the guides harming the overall community is minimal.

If anything, I agree with the sentiment is the best way to learn is from your mistakes. Every time I update my XBMC Linux HTPC I end up re-installing 4 times on average because I did something wrong the first three times and it was easier to start from scratch with the knowledge gained. Taking away Linux's sharp edges is completely outside the realm of the XBMC team, and is maybe detrimental for those who WANT to use the Linux release...
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#11
People need to realize that Linux is NOT windows, it wont work the same, and never will.

Those that grew up with windows such as myself, don't (or didnt in my case) realize how much they take for granted as to how windows works with expected knowledge. Most windows users that are game to try linux at-least know how to install windows drivers, etc, which in reality is a fairly technical thing that they have learnt to do over the years.

When these people move to Linux, they think that it is rubbish, and have a real hard time learning to use it because they expect things to work like windows. You have to un-learn all your windows habits and start learning how a Unix/Posix based computer operates.

Most tutorials on the net SUCK for Linux, they dont explain what the commands are that are in use, and as much as devs like to say that everything is in the man pages, and to RTFM, dont realize that the manuals/documentation has been written by a developer, and a new user has no hope in hell of figuring it out.

To Linux Users: If you are going to make a tutorial, or try to assist someone, dont just tell them what to run/do, explain what your telling them so they understand what they are doing.

To Windows Users: Listen, be patient, and learn about what your being taught, Linux users don't like helping those who are not willing to learn.

Now for those that may think that I am a Windows user/supporter, I am not, I have been using Linux daily for over 10 years now and I develop XBMC on Linux platform, but I did come from a windows background, which made it VERY hard for me to unlearn all the Microsoft crap that is no longer valid.

Be patient, keep your tempers in check, listen, learn and ask lots of questions if you don't understand what you are doing, for all you know you could be running malicious commands.
I am not scared of SVN - Cutting my hands open on the bleeding edge.
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#12
jhsrennie Wrote:If you want XBMC to be an exclusive club then comments like "Let'em learn even if its the hard way" and "their loss" are reasonable.

JR
I think my comments have been taken in the wrong context.

Unfortunately, to a certain degree, XBMC is an semi-exclusive club - mainly to people with determination to learn. Do not get me wrong - I was/am a Windows baby - and also posted the 'pulling my hair' out threads (and still do).

For new users, XBMC's forums are huge and finding the correct information through the guess work can be tiring.

But, with a push in the right direction I was able to learn and was determined enough to take full advantage of XBMC as it's meant to be, some of it I'm still learning (and sharing my findings) now.

Most computer users I know, are Home Users and barely know the basics of Microsoft Windows, let alone Linux/XBMC and would give up far too easily. Hence the reason the forum is so stacked with so many requests for help. I've had to setup HTPC's for friends/family members as they do not have a clue.

Mention Linux to anyone with no experience of it, they are not interested as it's 'Open Source' and 'Not as good'...! Stare

So the ultimate question is -

What do you do if they have a low attention span and cannot be taught to fish...?
Point them in the general direction and help along the way, but let them catch their first fish!

Anyway, back on topic!
Archive all the old, out-dated, How-To's and point everyone to the front page of the Wiki!! Laugh
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Home Page - Repo - Bug Tracker - Support Forum.
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#13
Quote:Second...We're talking about an HTPC not the space shuttle.

haha ya no better way for a noob to learn than to blindly stamp off a line and botch there system.... youll learn real fast not to type random shit from people on the internet into your pc
RYAN03
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#14
DejaVu77 Wrote:Anyway, back on topic!
Archive all the old, out-dated, How-To's and point everyone to the front page of the Wiki!! Laugh

That's what I'd do.

At the moment some of the Wiki articles are out of date due to a lack of volunteers to edit them. However if the Wiki becomes more widely publicised hopefully the articles will be brought up to date.

JR
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#15
jhsrennie Wrote:That's what I'd do.

At the moment some of the Wiki articles are out of date due to a lack of volunteers to edit them. However if the Wiki becomes more widely publicised hopefully the articles will be brought up to date.

JR

It's there a list somewhere of Wiki artciles that need to be updated, or is it just a case of tactical link following in order to find them? Using the Wanted page on the wiki just returns linked articles without a destination.
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