[wrxtasy]

Yes agreed TW, better to split the topic

And what does 'brand marketing power" have to do with it?

Brand Power is everything once you have established your name (& trust) in the consumer marketplace.
Exhibit A. Is Apple continually selling their Hardware with some of the highest profit margins in the business. And with this comes great Power to dictate and expect all sort of things.

Netflix does supply the content and therefor should be the ones to supply in a manner that makes it compatible with all devices, regardless of licensing. If that weren't the case then why supply it as 2 channel also ? If they can do that, then there's no reason to not be able to supply it in other legacy formats.

So you expect Netflix to add a seperate AC3/DD legacy format to all its A/V streams just so the nVIDIA Shield can stream its content to legacy DD only compatible TV / Soundbars & AVR's ?
DD content that is already packaged inside the DD+ Netflix streams they use already.

I cannot see that happening in a million years when virtually every other well known Netflix Media hardware player platform can already support DD streaming to all sorts of A/V hardware because they have a proper Dolby Licence.

So I ask again why is nVIDIA the odd man out in this media player market space, without proper DD/DTS licences ?

[Tinwarble]

Yes agreed TW, better to split the topic

Didn't want this, which doesn't really help anyone, to take over the thread.

Brand Power is everything once you have established your name (& trust) in the consumer marketplace.
Exhibit A. Is Apple continually selling their Hardware with some of the highest profit margins in the business. And with this comes great Power to dictate and expect all sort of things.

Yes, but plenty of companies with "Brand Power" have gone under because of bad decisions. But I don't know what that has to do with being culpable for being the one that does supply a feature or format. We're not talking about what a company can get away with, it's about responsibility.

Apple is a different animal. They could stick a Apple on monkey poo, charge $600 for it and there would be a group that would buy it. (kidding Apple people).

So you expect Netflix to add a seperate AC3/DD legacy format to all its A/V streams just so the nVIDIA Shield can stream its content to legacy DD only compatible TV / Soundbars & AVR's ?
DD content that is already packaged inside the DD+ Netflix streams they use already.

I cannot see that happening in a million years when virtually every other well known Netflix Media hardware player platform can already support DD streaming to all sorts of A/V hardware because they have a proper Dolby Licence.

So I ask again why is nVIDIA the odd man out in this media player market space, without proper DD/DTS licences ?

No, not just for the Shield, what about tablets that have HDMI ports and no licensing (there are probably other use cases, but I was on my way to bed and can't think right now ). I don't think that, as with BD, DD is embedded in the DD+ stream, if that were the case then there wouldn't be an issue, since it could just pass the DD stream and wouldn't need to be decoded by the Shield.

Why is the Shield the odd man out? I don't know, but it's probably the same reason that you wouldn't put high octane airplane gas in a 4 cylinder Ford Pinto. They probably feel that it doesn't make since for a buyer to purchase a high end Android device and connect it to low end equipment. After all, the Shield is not marketed at the frugal consumer.

That and those with the requirement of 5.1, or higher, audio needs but without the equipment to handle the decoding are in the minority.

[wrxtasy]

I suspect its all about Profit margins in the end for nVIDIA and the Shield and management Xmas bonuses once those margins are achieved.

BTW
I did not know you were a AMLogic Kernel dev. They spell Dolby as Dobly all the way thru their Engrish ..AML Kernel code...
Title of this thread....

nVidia Shield TV - Importance of Dobly licensing...

EDIT: Damn I better correct it as my name is attached to the title... I see what you did there @Tinwarble when you split the thread..
Very sneaky indeed.... ha Ha !

[Tinwarble]

Well, with any company it's about profit margins, only a dumb company wouldn't try to increase that.

But think about all the money they've thrown at the Shield. Development man hours for updates, game development, all the free devices they've given to developers (like our devs), working to get content providers to bring there apps to the Shield like Amazon ( those things usually cost something).

I don't think that the lack of licenses is because nVidia is cheap.


Hey, you know me, Mr. Sneeky. . Actually I'm on my 7" tablet, you're lucky I didn't accidentally send everything to the trash.

[couto27]

Here my 2 cents about the Dolby Licensing:

For start Its quite waste of money to purchase does HTIB with proprietary connections.
The speakers & sub are made of plastic, they have tweeters so small that they distort easily at normal listening levels, small and cheap mid drives so forget any mid-bass from them.
The Subwoofer is passive and most likelly the system dont have any crossover in them.
Even does HTIB that dont have proprietary connections the box is paired with Speakers usually 3 ohms, and connecting them with "normal" AV Receiver will cause impedance mismatching, resulting in amplifier malfunction or damage.

The price of this HTIBs starts in 200$ heres samsung example J4100 that is licensed by Dolby.
Anyone purchasing one of this HTIB are not adding anything else to their Home Theather experience, resulting in 200$ loss.

You will need at least 500$ to let you rolling
For starters even the cheapest entry level receiver, for 279$ its a good start

The Speakers depends of the user choice, theres some respectable brands in USA, they sell directly to the consumer like the SVS
But theres cheaper alternatives you just have to search them, theres always good finding like 5 x speakers from klipsch quintet for 289$

Only after calibration the sound system (manual or using the Auto mode) and adjusting the best placement for the subwoofer, you will need some blu-ray Movies with DTS-HD or TrueHD audio Tracks, and im assure you that will sound 100x better than any HTIB on the market.

The disappointment will start when you start to compare Lossless HD audio with Compressed DD/DTS, the lack of definition and bass are huge downgrade.

The importance of Dolby Licensing (decode) IMHO matters for those with TV capable of passthrough DTD/DD, and HTIB with optical input, their SQ improvement will depend of their audio system

[wesk05]

Netflix used to have Dolby Digital streams for Samsung TVs and a few other Blu-ray players. They removed Dolby Digital stream sometime in 2014.

I consider this as a miscalculation/judgement on nVIDIA's part. It is not like they couldn't afford Dolby licensing costs. It is just a missed opportunity for them!

BTW: Even after the patents expire, you will still need to license Dolby Audio if you plan on advertising your device with Dolby technologies.

[wesk05]

Its pretty baffling when a $69 Xiaomi Mi Box can come with DD/DTS licenses, and even a 10 year old PS3 can decode 7.1 DD+ to 5.1 Multichannel PCM. Yet a 2017 nVIDIA Shield cannot, when using (Non Kodi) Android Apps.

Xiaomi Mi Box may have Dolby Audio license, but I don't think it actually works. You can set "Digital sounds" to "PCM" and you will still get Dolby Digital Plus passthrough audio with Netflix app. You can have the box connected to a TV that supports Dolby Digital passthrough via HDMI ARC, but you will only get "stereo" audio options in Netflix. Additionally, Dolby Digital/DTS passthrough via HDMI ARC doesn't even work with Kodi/SPMC. At least, that works on the Shield.

Has anyone tried this HDMI ARC route with the WeTek devices? The only Android device (that I have tested) that has a working option (Dolby Digital Plus stream is converted to Dolby Digital) is the Amazon fireTV.

[wrxtasy]

Xiaomi Mi Box may have Dolby Audio license, but I don't think it actually works. You can set "Digital sounds" to "PCM" and you will still get Dolby Digital Plus passthrough audio with Netflix app. You can have the box connected to a TV that supports Dolby Digital passthrough via HDMI ARC, but you will only get "stereo" audio options in Netflix.

Just tested this on the Mi Box, directly connected to the TV. I get 5.1 Audio options show up in Netflix. Looks like DD+ > DD works.
Android Audio settings are HDMI Passthrough.

I consider this as a miscalculation/judgement on nVIDIA's part. It is not like they couldn't afford Dolby licensing costs. It is just a missed opportunity for them!

Lets not beat around the bush here and go tip toeing about....

Do we really believe a well resourced, large (56 Billion $), media Tech company like nVIDIA forgot/miscalculated/mis-judged/overlooked adding a Dolby Licence to the premium Android streaming device, the nVIDIA Shield ?

I'm not buying that for one single minute.

nVIDIA knew all about these DD+ Netflix 5.1 TV / optical / ARC / soundbar problems with the 2015 Shield. And because they knew. A Dolby Licence could easily have been added to the 2017 Shield you would think.

No this appears to be all about Profit margins and nVIDIA being Tight Asses !

[wesk05]

Just tested this on the Mi Box, directly connected to the TV. I get 5.1 Audio options show up in Netflix. Looks like DD+ > DD works.
Android Audio settings are HDMI Passthrough.

That's interesting.... I cannot reproduce it with my Samsung/Sony TVs or simulated displays with Dolby Digital support on my HDMI analyzer. Can you dump the EDID from your TV?

If I leave "Digital sounds" on Auto, it changes to SPDIF passthrough when I connect the Mi Box directly to the TV.

[wrxtasy]

My Android settings > Digital Sound > Auto Detection (HDMI Passthrough)
No equiptment to dump TV EDID. My Skunkworks is not as well resourced as your secret bunker

This is what AML LE reports after EDID decoding with the TV I'm using:

Code:

cat /sys/devices/virtual/amhdmitx/amhdmitx0/aud_cap

CodingType MaxChannels SamplingFreq SampleSize
PCM, 2 ch, 32/44.1/48 kHz, 16/20/24 bit
AC-3, 6 ch, 32/44.1/48 kHz,  bit
Dobly_Digital+, 8 ch, 32/44.1/48 kHz,  bit

It all just works. Android Audio settings stays on HDMI Passthrough all the time.
This is using my secondary TV. A cheap 2015 4K HiSense, nothing special.

[Tinwarble]

My Android settings > Digital Sound > Auto Detection (HDMI Passthrough)
No equiptment to dump TV EDID. My Skunkworks is not as well resourced as your secret bunker

You should just be able to pull the EDID data from your AML LE for your TV, that's how I pull mine, from my Chromebox.

On my CB it's located in /sys/devices/pci0000:00/000:00:02.0/drm/card0/card0-HDMI-A-1/

[wrxtasy]

Yes it should be possible, its a matter of tracking the location of the RAW EDID data down first.

BTW: did you notice AML's Engrish posted above - Dobly_Digital+

[wesk05]

My Android settings > Digital Sound > Auto Detection (HDMI Passthrough)
No equiptment to dump TV EDID. My Skunkworks is not as well resourced as your secret bunker

Dobly_Digital+, 8 ch, 32/44.1/48 kHz, bit

The only equipment you need to dump EDID from a display is a PC running Windows/Linux or a Mac. On Windows you can use Monitor Asset Manager to save the EDID. http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm
Just connect the PC directly to the TV and save the "real time" EDID as a bin file.

I think I know why you are seeing the 5.1 option. Your TV is reporting Dolby Digital Plus support! You will not see this in most TVs. This also proves the fact that you can get 5.1 audio options in Netflix/HBO/Google Movies etc. on Android only if the sink supports Dolby Digital Plus. It doesn't seem to matter whether the device has Dolby Audio license or not. The only exception may be the Amazon fireTV.

[Tinwarble]

It should be in the same place as I posted above, or in card0-HDMI-A-2/, but you can just SHH in and

cd /
find -name edid

Yeah, noticed that. That's the old English spelling.

[wrxtasy]

@wesk05, Found the required EDID data if you needed to analyse in your Skunkworks lab:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2764...rchive.zip

I think I know why you are seeing the 5.1 option. Your TV is reporting Dolby Digital Plus support! You will not see this in most TVs. This also proves the fact that you can get 5.1 audio options in Netflix/HBO/Google Movies etc. on Android only if the sink supports Dolby Digital Plus. It doesn't matter whether the device has Dolby Audio license or not. The only exception may be the Amazon fireTV.

Maybe. But on the WeTek Hub, running test Marshmallow with the same Android TV version of Netflix. I do not get 5.1 Netflix Audio with the same TV. I suspect Firmware mods may be needed as well in addition to a Dolby license.
I think there is a bit more to this mystery...