[ThePowerTool]

Hi,

I'm looking at building an HTPC. As I already have a scaler my requirements for my HTPC are for use more as a transport. I've read, in forums here, that some people run into problems with support for different video modes because their TV doesn't support 24Hz when changing video modes (from 1920x1080). I am expecting this won't be an issue for the modes supported by my scaler.

My primary requirement is transport of video in source format:
It seems that there is now a setting in KODI so that the video output will be set to the source format of the material being played. This is what I'm looking for as a primary requirement.

Output configuration consideration?
What about the computer UI? If I have a dual-head system can I run the computer UI through an alternate input on my system and switch between inputs for the UI and video? Is there value in doing this? Does it save on system strain if you always have the UI (at a fixed video mode)? Or are there other reasons this would be advantageous? I'm not a fan of wondering about the state of my system and I want easy access to the UI. This was my thought to address both concerns.

Hardware output options and questions:
I read the post on hardware (under Hardware for KODI). I see some motherboards now offer integrated HDMI output. What do I need to know to plan paths for video and audio? When I play HQ source material I want to make sure timing is correct (meaning the video is in sync with the audio). What is the best way to plan for this? Is it HDMI? Or is it DVI + optical? I audio and video is delivered to my scaler and is appropriately in-sync the scaler handles everything from that point. My key question: If I go with integrated HDMI output will that assure (given HQ source material) that audio and video are in sync?

Also, from a soft perspective, when the source material may be out of sync is there an easy way to make quick, on the fly adjustments?

In summary, my key questions:

1. Is there an advantage in having a dual-head system and running one output as fixed-mode, full-time UI?
2. How do I plan hw pathing for audio and video with regards to sync when purchasing new hardware? What are the recommended options (e.g. HDMI, DVI + optical, other)?

Thanks!

[noggin]

My primary requirement is transport of video in source format:
It seems that there is now a setting in KODI so that the video output will be set to the source format of the material being played. This is what I'm looking for as a primary requirement.

Don't think that is the case for all source video. KODI and XBMC before it had the option, on some platforms, of allowing you to change the refresh rate based on the format of the file you were playing. This is kind of vital in Europe where we watch a mix of 24p, 25p, 50i, 50p and 60i content routinely (plus the 1000/1001 24/60 variants)

However I didn't think Kodi allowed resolution and interlace/progressive format switching based on source - just frame rate switching. I am not aware of platforms that properly handle 576i and 480i native SD output (i.e. pass-through untouched of SD interlaced content), and I can think of at least one use case where native output would be a nightmare in HD.

(In the UK all of our HD broadcasts on terrestrial TV switch between 1080/25p and 1080/50i encoding on-the-fly on a GOP-by-GOP basis - and the last thing I would want is my HTPC switching between progressive and interlaced output every 12 frames and re-syncing my amp/display. It took TV manufacturers a little while to cope with this 25p/50i encoder format flipping...)

[ThePowerTool]

OK so you left me with a lot to research and study. I believe I do want native transport and have the equipment to provide the necessary support. The specifications for my scalar:

Video Inputs
• 8 HDMI 1.3 (RGB or YCbCr) processes 480i/p-60, 576i/p-50, 720p-
50/60, 1080i-50/60, 1080p-24/25/50/60, VGA-SXGA @ 60Hz
• 2 Component (YPbPr or RGB/S) processes 480i/p-60, 576i/p-50,
720p-50/60, 1080i-50/60, 1080p-50/60
• 1 HD15 (VGA, SVGA, XGA, SXGA @ 60Hz)
• 1 S-Video (NTSC/PAL/SECAM)
• 3 Composite (NTSC/PAL/SECAM)
Audio Inputs
• 8 HDMI 1.3 (Compatible with Multi-channel PCM, DSD, Dolby TrueHD,
Dolby Digital Plus, DTS-HD, and DTS-HD Master audio formats)
• 3 Assignable Optical Digital
• 1 Assignable Coaxial Digital
• 2 Assignable Analog Pairs (L/R)

I strongly suspect your concerns with regards to 576i and 480i native are not an issue with my scaler but the only confirmation would be to verify (it is stated as supported in the specs) by passing that format and assessing the final image.

I haven't made the jump to media server because my key concern is corrupted video to my scaler. If KODI supports a "native" or "source format" I would much prefer to start there--but would like to know the answer before investing the time.

Can KODI switch resolution and frame rate to match source material?
What about your concern regarding switching between 1080/25p and 1080/50i on-the-fly?
- also is that an unusual exception or do you see it a lot? I'm going to research this part some more and see if I have anything already in this format--assuming I can figure out a way to identify it.
- is there a plan for KODI to support it (if it's not supported)?

Thanks!

[noggin]

Can KODI switch resolution and frame rate to match source material?
What about your concern regarding switching between 1080/25p and 1080/50i on-the-fly?
- also is that an unusual exception or do you see it a lot? I'm going to research this part some more and see if I have anything already in this format--assuming I can figure out a way to identify it.
- is there a plan for KODI to support it (if it's not supported)?

Kodi will switch frame rates on the fly. It doesn't switch resolution or between interlaced and progressive. AFAIK Kodi doesn't support native interlaced output of native interlaced content in the original format either. (And you also have the issue of handling TFF and BFF stuff properly)

In the UK our HD terrestrial broadcasts use 25p/50i on-the-fly switching on a GOP-by-GOP basis. This means the H264 encoder is dynamically switching between 25p and 50i encoding modes on the fly and can switch frequently (many times a minute in some cases) You really wouldn't want your HTPC's HDMI output flipping between 25p and 50i (particularly as 1080/25p is not a supported format in many TVs and you'd then get de-interlaces flying in and out downstream and potential re-sync hell causing your display or scaler to blank)

If you want native resolution, format and frame rate output on all of your content you really are best with a Blu-ray player or a DVD player - I'm not even aware of media players like the Popcorn Hours offering dynamic resolution switching based on content.

One big issue that has stopped this being offered is that often video files aren't in a format that can be output natively. Lots of content isn't a nice neat 720x576, 704x576, 1280x720 or 1920x1080 format. Lots of it is cropped or anamorphic, or reduced resolution, and these need to be played as well. The usual approach, which Kodi takes, is to scale and de-interlace internally - effectively rendering an external scaler redundant. (Though not always matching the quality of an external scalar in quality)

I don't believe this is on the road map for Kodi support - though with the proliferation of UHD sets and 4K HDMI 1.4a connections being limited to 2160/30p, I think there is some merit in looking at a display option for Kodi that lets you switch resolution between 2160/24-30p and 1080/50-60p dynamically based on file resolution and frame rate - so 1080/50i stuff is de-interlaced and output at 1080/50p to deliver full temporal resolution, but 2160/24p stuff is output at 2160/24p to deliver full spatial resolution. You could then also argue that 720/50-60p stuff should be output at 720p not 1080p to avoid a double scale (to 1080p in the HTPC and then again to 2160p in the TV)

[ThePowerTool]

Hi Noggin, I've been using an Oppo blu ray player. Oppo has a specialty transport line which I love. Thank you very much for the clarification. Perhaps what I'll do is just use KODI for DVDs and standard HD content and non standard items I'll still individually hand-load into my Oppo. It seems like that may be my best option until something changes to allow for better transport of source material. You hit the nail on the head. I spent some nice cash on my scaler and I don't want it redundant--I want to leverage it.

I'll have a standard 480 output for my US DVDs. I only have a handful of non-US DVDs so I'll address those as one-offs. And I'll have an HD output that I may have to manually change for resolution. I wonder, if I have a dual-head card can I leave one as 480 full-time and dedicate it to DVDs and use the other for HD? I could then label the inputs on my scaler accordingly. The HD input would simply be passed through. The DVD input would be scaled to the native resolution of my projection system.

I've seen what a good job my scaler does when it gets source format. I really would like to find a good setup that lets me use it as easily as possible (from an end-user UI perspective). At least what I'm thinking (in the 2nd paragraph) would make viewing DVDs and HD material easy while leaving the non-standard stuff requiring manual intervention. Is it a case of waiting for technology to catch up to what I want? I think I understand what you are saying regarding 1080/50i. It sounds like that would be very hard on standard video hardware if it could even be done at all and if it could it might even greatly shorten the life of the card.

I wish I could just tell KODI to feed my video files to my blu ray via the USB or Ethernet connection but I know there are numerous things missing to make that work.

Thank you very much for your time and information. I really appreciate it!!

[noggin]

I don't think you'll get native 480i, 576i or 1080i content replayed and output line-for-line/field-for-field mapped in 480i, 576i or 1080i on Kodi.

I suspect you might also not like the way Kodi rescales 16-235 to 0-255 discarding BTB and WTW in many set-ups as well. (It IS possible to get it to preserve 16-235 without touching it - but it is a bit of a hack, and means the UI and other content like photos are crushed)

[ThePowerTool]

OK. I'm sad. I think I'll hold off for now. Thank you for the info!

[skylarking]

I don't think you'll get native 480i, 576i or 1080i content replayed and output line-for-line/field-for-field mapped in 480i, 576i or 1080i on Kodi.

I would have thought video pass through was something that would be easy to implement

I suspect you might also not like the way Kodi rescales 16-235 to 0-255 discarding BTB and WTW in many set-ups as well. (It IS possible to get it to preserve 16-235 without touching it - but it is a bit of a hack, and means the UI and other content like photos are crushed)

That's the probelm with an all in one app, it does lots of things well but doesn't excel in one thing.
A media player (for me =video, not pictures or music) should be about providing the best PQ possible.

Mind you, I still like my XBMC, and i hate to say it but the name Kodi is growing one me

[poofyhairguy]

I would have thought video pass through was something that would be easy to implement

Sure but for interlaced content it is up to Kodi to do the deinterlacing. It can do a really good job (especially on Nvidia stuff), but not the best job possible in the market. I think it is better than everything but the top hardware deinterlacers though. I think scaling is the same way- Kodi scales better than every TV in my house except one. Heck it is WAY better than my ST50's scaler. So I don't mind Kodi doing it.

If someone really cares about the best of the best picture quality they are using MadVR. I don't think that even outputs the native res, but heck it has software scalers that put the best hardware stuff to shame. As you said an option that is designed for an optimal GUI experience on many platforms can't keep up to something that is only trying to be the best PQ on a single platform.