[nickr]

You are re-encoding because you need to go from mvc (2 independent1920x1080 streams after decoding) to one 3840x1080 (full sbs) stream.

[noggin]

Why would there be re-encoding if you're outputting 3840x1080 SBS? Isn't this basically unpacking the frame-packed 1080p 3D?

But you don't have Frame Packed 3D available to you on the Blu-ray. You have MVC. 3D Blu-ray content uses one 1920x1080 H264 eye feed (which is the 2D compatible stream played by 2D players), with an additional MVC encoded stream that rather than containing a fully independent second eye feed contains a signal that just has the difference between the two eye source signals. Effectively this MVC compressed secondary eye feed is a left eye-right eye difference stream - which allows the second eye feed to be reconstructed from the H264 and MVC streams.

Because there is so much similar content in the left and right eye feeds there is massive redundancy in the two feeds, and by using the MVC encoding technique you can significantly reduce the data required to store the 2 x 1920x1080 streams (it takes less than double a single 1920x1080 stream) If you used two totally independent streams (such as 2 x H264 1920x1080 streams) you'd need far more bandwidth or end up with poorer quality pictures.

So - what is on the Blu-ray disc itself isn't Frame Packed. It's two streams that when decoded can create 2 x 1920x1080 streams which can then be output frame packed.

If you decode this in software to the 2 x 1920x1080 streams but want to convert them to a 3840x1080 or 1920x2160 full resolution SBS or TAB H264 sequence you have to re-encode, which XBMC could, in theory, output frame packed over HDMI. Without MVC decoding in XBMC and without using an external player you have no option but to re-encode to playback in XBMC.

I think that in GPU specs MVC decoding and Frame Packed output are effectively merged (as for proper 3D Blu-ray replay you require both). It appears from other posts in this thread that the Celeron 2955U in the Chromebox is capable of Frame packed output but it may not be capable of hardware MVC decoding (well drivers may not support it)

I suspect (nothing to do with 3D) that the Chromebox fails to run PowerDVD etc. for Blu-ray replay under Windows because the drivers don't report an HDCP path. I suspect an un-protected Blu-ray may play (or a protected one if you run AnyDVD HD)?

[hdmkv]

Okay, that was educational, thanks .

[herhelman]

Why would there be re-encoding if you're outputting 3840x1080 SBS? Isn't this basically unpacking the frame-packed 1080p 3D?

But you don't have Frame Packed 3D available to you on the Blu-ray. You have MVC. 3D Blu-ray content uses one 1920x1080 H264 eye feed (which is the 2D compatible stream played by 2D players), with an additional MVC encoded stream that rather than containing a fully independent second eye feed contains a signal that just has the difference between the two eye source signals. Effectively this MVC compressed secondary eye feed is a left eye-right eye difference stream - which allows the second eye feed to be reconstructed from the H264 and MVC streams.

Because there is so much similar content in the left and right eye feeds there is massive redundancy in the two feeds, and by using the MVC encoding technique you can significantly reduce the data required to store the 2 x 1920x1080 streams (it takes less than double a single 1920x1080 stream) If you used two totally independent streams (such as 2 x H264 1920x1080 streams) you'd need far more bandwidth or end up with poorer quality pictures.

So - what is on the Blu-ray disc itself isn't Frame Packed. It's two streams that when decoded can create 2 x 1920x1080 streams which can then be output frame packed.

If you decode this in software to the 2 x 1920x1080 streams but want to convert them to a 3840x1080 or 1920x2160 full resolution SBS or TAB H264 sequence you have to re-encode, which XBMC could, in theory, output frame packed over HDMI. Without MVC decoding in XBMC and without using an external player you have no option but to re-encode to playback in XBMC.

I think that in GPU specs MVC decoding and Frame Packed output are effectively merged (as for proper 3D Blu-ray replay you require both). It appears from other posts in this thread that the Celeron 2955U in the Chromebox is capable of Frame packed output but it may not be capable of hardware MVC decoding (well drivers may not support it)

I suspect (nothing to do with 3D) that the Chromebox fails to run PowerDVD etc. for Blu-ray replay under Windows because the drivers don't report an HDCP path. I suspect an un-protected Blu-ray may play (or a protected one if you run AnyDVD HD)?

And a Haswell celeron NUC? It can run Power DVD on windows for 3d BD iso?

[wizziwig]

I think that in GPU specs MVC decoding and Frame Packed output are effectively merged (as for proper 3D Blu-ray replay you require both). It appears from other posts in this thread that the Celeron 2955U in the Chromebox is capable of Frame packed output but it may not be capable of hardware MVC decoding (well drivers may not support it)

I suspect (nothing to do with 3D) that the Chromebox fails to run PowerDVD etc. for Blu-ray replay under Windows because the drivers don't report an HDCP path. I suspect an un-protected Blu-ray may play (or a protected one if you run AnyDVD HD)?

I'm 99% certain that hardware accelerated MVC decoding does work on Celeron chips in Windows. Even if it didn't, Intel provides a software-decoder fallback in their Media SDK which could probably do it on 2955u or higher. None of this matters in Windows because MVC decoding is useless without 1080p FP HDMI support. This whole situation is similar to HD audio support on Baytrail. Works in Linux but is blocked in Windows. Must be some licensing issue to save money.

And a Haswell celeron NUC? It can run Power DVD on windows for 3d BD iso?

No. Windows drivers only support 3D BD playback on i3, i5, and Baytrail processors.

[herhelman]

I think that in GPU specs MVC decoding and Frame Packed output are effectively merged (as for proper 3D Blu-ray replay you require both). It appears from other posts in this thread that the Celeron 2955U in the Chromebox is capable of Frame packed output but it may not be capable of hardware MVC decoding (well drivers may not support it)

I suspect (nothing to do with 3D) that the Chromebox fails to run PowerDVD etc. for Blu-ray replay under Windows because the drivers don't report an HDCP path. I suspect an un-protected Blu-ray may play (or a protected one if you run AnyDVD HD)?

I'm 99% certain that hardware accelerated MVC decoding does work on Celeron chips in Windows. Even if it didn't, Intel provides a software-decoder fallback in their Media SDK which could probably do it on 2955u or higher. None of this matters in Windows because MVC decoding is useless without 1080p FP HDMI support. This whole situation is similar to HD audio support on Baytrail. Works in Linux but is blocked in Windows. Must be some licensing issue to save money.

And a Haswell celeron NUC? It can run Power DVD on windows for 3d BD iso?

No. Windows drivers only support 3D BD playback on i3, i5, and Baytrail processors.

So , a bay trail device will play 3d bd ISO but not with HD audio? or a baytrail device (meego stick , for example) will play 3d with HD audio on linux or openelec?
thanks!!

[Matt Devo]

So , a bay trail device will play 3d bd ISO but not with HD audio? or a baytrail device (meego stick , for example) will play 3d with HD audio on linux or openelec?
thanks!!

3D Bluray ISO playback is only available on Windows using an external player. Baytrail can play 3D ISO in Windows without HD audio, under Linux with HD audio but without 3D ISO playback

[herhelman]

the ChromeBox can't currently play frame-packed 3D BluRay ISOs, so if that's a requirement, it should not be a consideration.

Matt,i read in other forums , for example that any realtek 1195 box has better image quality than vidon box...
I could expect video quality of chromebox, nucs, intel x86 pcs in general, same as a regular blu ray player ?
Thanks in advance!
Hernán

[Matt Devo]

as good or better IMO

[wizziwig]

as good or better IMO

Depends on content. PCs still don't handle all interlaced content as perfectly as a high-end stand-alone BD player. There is often some judder and micro-freezes on certain content that uses a mixture of soft and hard telecine. And since PCs don't easily support source-direct output, there is no way to let your TV or external video processor handle the deinterlacing.

For progressive content, it's generally comparable. BD Player image quality may be slightly better on some TVs which prefer YCbCr input vs. the PC native RGB output.

[noggin]

Yep - native Blu-ray players are likely to be better in some situations - particularly where you are using YCrCb - as XBMC in general will do a YCrCb to RGB and then an RBC to YCrCb colour space conversion and this may mean some quality loss through quantisation issues, and you may also lose <16 and >235 levels in some situations. There are also potential issues in 4:2:0 to 4:2:2/4:4:4 upsampling quality.

As others have said, PCs vary in the quality of their de-interlacing as well.

[bluc]

So if I did MVC 3d rips with 5.1 dolby digital audio it would work on a baytrail nuc?Anyone know how baytrail nuc performs on a gigabit network?

[noggin]

It would work on a Raspberry Pi believe it or not.

The Pis are the first Kodi platforms to have hardware MVC decode support within Kodi's player itself (rather than flipping to an external player). The Pi will also handle full resolution frame-packed output - though the UI is rendered at half-resolution currently I believe.

Now that the Pi 2 can also do lossless decoding of DTS HD (and Dolby True HD) for <192kHz 5.1 sound tracks to output them as multichannel PCM (no bitstreaming of HD Audio due to a hardware bandwith limitation) the Pi 2 is looking like a very good Kodi solution indeed.

At the moment the Pi needs MVC content to be re-wrapped as an MKV and can't handle 3D Blu-ray ISOs AIUI - but this is being actively worked on.

[bluc]

Pi 2 is my next choice only read about MVC playback on them a few days ago and have been fighting the urge to buy one ever since I bought the first one and found it painfully slow. Does pi2 have true gigabit Ethernet and or usb3?

[noggin]

Pi 2 is my next choice only read about MVC playback on them a few days ago and have been fighting the urge to buy one ever since I bought the first one and found it painfully slow. Does pi2 have true gigabit Ethernet and or usb3?

No USB 3.0 and no GigE - but neither are required for media playback of Blu-ray quality content and below. (They are definitely useful if you want to run a server or a multi-tuner Live TV backend though)

The Pi 2 B is basically the same as the Pi 1 B+ but with an upgraded SoC which replaces the single core ARM with a Quad core ARM with a more modern instruction set, and 1GB rather than 512MB of RAM (The RAM has also moved from being mounted on top of the SoC to being a separate package on the underside of the PCB). The GPU/VPU and I/O stuff in the Pi 2 are identical to the Pi 1.

I've got a couple of Pi 2s and as pure media playback boxes they are very good indeed - now that they have HD Audio decode for both Dolby True HD and DTS HD MA/HRA and MVC they are close to unrivalled I'd say.

The Chromebox outperforms the Pi2 for 2D stuff - it bitstreams HD Audio and has a very high quality de-interlace algorithm for interlaced content (though the Pi 2 is not terrible) - and has USB 3.0 and GigE if these are important to you.