[wrxtasy]

This might be a more appropriate place, a repost from the RPI2 vs ODROID-C1 thread.

As I now own a RPi2 and ODROID-C1 its time to clear some up misinformation and compare the two properly:

Basic Tech Specs
============

RPI2:
* SoC: Broadcom 2836
* CPU: Quad-core ARM® Cortex®-A7 (ARMv7 instruction set) @ 900MHz
* GPU: Videocore IV 250MHz
* Memory: 1GB LPDDR2 SDRAM 400MHz
* GPIO: 40pin
* 100BaseT Ethernet (bandwidth shared with USB)
* MicroSD card slot
* 4x USB 2.0
* HDMI: Type A
* Supports HDMI CEC control

ODROID-C1:
* SoC: Amlogic S805
* CPU: Quad-Core ARM® Cortex®-A5 (ARMv7 instruction set) @ 1.5Ghz
* GPU: Quad Core ARM® Mali™ - 450 MP2 GPU @ up to 600MHz+
* Memory: 1GB DDR3 SDRAM 792MHz
* GPIO: 40pin
* Gigabit Ethernet
* eMMC4.5 HS200 Flash Storage slot / UHS-1 SDR50 MicroSD card slot
* 4x USB 2.0 Host, 1 x USB OTG
* HDMI: Micro-size Type D
* Infrared(IR) Receiver
* Preliminary support for HDMI CEC control with purchase of RTC battery.

Technical Detail

Amlogic S805 DataSheet

Trivia
The Cortex-A7 provides up to 20% more single thread performance than the Cortex-A5 according to ARM.

Cortex-A Series


Kodi / OpenElec 14.2 comparison:
- RPi2 GUI refresh rates modes available: 23.98, 24, 50, 59.94, 60Hz
- OC1 GUI refresh rates modes available: 24, 50, 60Hz (OpenElec unofficial release)
- both provide dynamic refresh rate switching.

1) As expected the OC1 has no perfectely synced H264 - 24p (23.976fps) video playback compared to the RPi2. 23.976fps video played using 24Hz on a 24p capable TV results in a video frame hiccup every 40 seconds or so.
23.976fps video played at 60Hz on the OC1 uses the VPU to provide 3:2 pulldown support. Resulting in very minor video judder when the camera pans about. Its barely noticeable. Its a pity 23.976fps video cannot be sped up to 24fps and audio resampled.

2) Kodi GUI speed and general operation is noticeably quicker on the OC1 compared to a Turbo Overclocked RPi2 (force_turbo=1). This is due to a higher standard 1.5 Ghz CPU clock rate and faster DDR3 SDRAM of the OC1. The OC1 has a dedicated GigaE Ethernet controller as well. One that does not have to share bandwidth with usb devices such as that on the 100BaseT Ethernet equipped RPi2.

3) The VPU deinterlacing of the OC1 uses an Advanced motion adaptive edge enhancing de-interlacing engine resulting in superior SD and HD deinterlacing.
The RPi2 uses MMAL advanced or Bob. MMAL advanced produces sharp SD video but small jagged video artefacts are the result. This is highly noticeable when newsreaders lips are moving and very distracting. Bob deinterlacing is the alternative which results in soft edge, almost blurry SD video. Its not so bad on HD content. EDIT SD video jaggies fixed on the RPi2 with Kodi Isengard. Result OC1 deinterlacing still superior.

4) Live TV. I have run a TvHeadend backend server on both whilst also running a TvHeadend client in Kodi. Both work well when streaming TV to networked clients. Recording 2 channels whilst streaming or watching recorded video is possible. A small slowdown in Kodi GUI is noticeable on the RPi2. Video sync is perfect on both devices both with mpeg2 25i/50i TV and when I tested 29.97fps content.

5) Codecs: The Amlogic hardware decoder in the OC1 and the OMXPlayer + DVD Player in the RPi2 pretty much handle anything you can throw at them. Very old video codecs such as WMV1 and WMV2, that default to Kodi's software ffmpeg decoder are smoother on the RPi2.

6) Audio: 5.1 audio passthrough works on both OpenElec and Android.

Costs
- to get anywhere near OC1 smooth Kodi GUI speed on an RPi2 you need to overclock it. This means you need both a fast Class 10 Samsung micro SDHC and a 5V/2.0 Amp power supply. Lots of problems are encountered once you start adding usb devices such as a TV Tuner, and keyboard etc. without a proper power supply.

- the OC1 is far more power efficient. Typically it just needs 0.5Amps. I have had no problems using an old iPhone charger with the cheap as chips Hardkernel usb power cord, and connected usb devices such as a TV Tuner, keyboard, Flirc and a usb stick. No issues with Kodi speed either using a 3 year old slow Sandisk micro SDHC card. Sandisk UHS-1 micro SDHC card are recommended by ODROID for trouble free operation.

- both devices need either a self powered HDD or a powered usb hub to connect 2.5" HDD's.

- the RPi2 has HDMI CEC control, so those with compatible TV's and AVR's may not even need to buy a remote control. HDMI CEC control is very handy. Wake up the RPi and your on the correct TV Input with all your connected HDMI CEC devices powered up.

- the OC1 has a NEC data format compatible Infrared (IR) receiver. Harmony remotes have been reported to work well. I have yet to personally test this with my Harmony yet. I currently use a programmed usb Flirc IR receiver and a Harmony remote and it works very well.

- Codec licences need to be purchased to hardware decode mpeg2 and VC1 codecs on the RPi2.

- OC1 specific costs: USD $35 + $5.70 (HDMI cable) + $4.50 (case) + $1.90 (usb DC Plug) + $9 shippping --> 1 week to Oz from South Korea.


Kodi 15.x aka Isengard and the future
- OpenElec Isengard testing on the RPi2 currently supports software decoding of DTS-HD and True HD. This is all opensource common code for ARM devices so its logical to concluded that the OC1 may eventually be able to do HD audio decoding to PCM in Isengard as well.

- OpenElec Isengard on the RPi2 now supports hardware decoding of full frame packed 3D, which means no more half resolutions when playing 3D video. Its all 1080p now. A first for a Kodi media device. The OC1's Amlogic Video Engine has the hardware capability to do H.264 MVC decoding up to 1080p@60fps. This is currently under development by the Android - Kodi developer Koying for AMlogic SoC's


Supposed issues on the OC1:
- HDMI CEC control not working. The OC1 was never marketed with HDMI CEC support included. I don't know why users are complaining its not working. It does work on some Samsung TV's and others apparently if you plug in a cheap RTC Backup Battery.
EDIT: HDMI-CEC power issues now fixed on new units from the factory. Signified by a yellow dot on the Ethernet connector shield.

- HDMI TV connection issues. Some users are reporting no picture via HDMI due to a HDMI cable grounding issue when using a dodgy 3rd party HDMI cable. I just bought the cheap, properly grounded. HDMI Type A to Micro-size Type D cable from Hardkernel and have had no such issues at all with my Sony TV. If that does not work for stubborn TV's, an easily soldered wire does.
EDIT: HDMI issues fixed in Firmware update from ODROID


Android KitKat 4.4.2 / Netflix / Kodi and H265 video decoding
- Netflix 720x480p works well. Its actually smoother doing 3:2 video pulldown that my Chromecast. What is extremely surprising is that if the Android GUI is set to 24Hz, 23.976fps (24p) Netflix content is silky smooth on my 24p TV. In fact it's the smoothest Netflix video playback I have ever seen. I see no video glitch every 40 seconds or so, which has me really confused and delighted !

The really nice thing is under some Skins in Kodi running on Android I can add Netflix and other Android apps and select these from within Kodi seamlessly. Using a full keyboard programmed Flirc + remote, Netflix navigation and play is then possible using just a remote control. In fact you can navigate the whole Android GUI interface with this combo.

- the SPMC distros from Koying and the Kodi Isengard pre-releases are trialling support for hardware decoding of H265 codecs on Amlogic compatible SoC's. SPMC - H265 playback does work. The Isengard distro is naturally not that reliable at the moment.

What is a revelation if that by using SPMC and dynamic refresh rate switching. It is possible to have very near perfect 23.976fps - H265 video sync to a 24p TV. It appears the Amlogic Video Engine has some tricks up its sleeve. Great news indeed !

- Dynamic refresh rate switching and very good quality deinterlacing are available when running both the SPMC - Android and OpenElec. distros. Android Isengard as well.


The annoying Audio loss issue on the OC1
- there is always one isn't there. This concerns a minor 1-2 secs Audio loss that seemingly occurs at random intervals. Its far more prevalent just after a cold boot and present on all distros. What I have narrowed it down to is that using the higher 50 and 60Hz refresh rates is guaranteed to trigger it. When using 24Hz the issue does not seem to present itself at all.
EDIT: HDMI Audio Issues fixed (22 May)

ODROID - HDMI Video Fix discussion:
http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=117&t=12827

HDMI Audio Fix discussion
http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=117&t=9134

Audio Dropout Issue Details HERE

Summing up
As I do not use full frame packed 3D video, nor HD Audio on the RPi2 and have found myself using the OC1 more and more. The 3:2 pulldown video judder is barely noticeable when playing H264 - 23.976fps video. I really like the Netflix and Android app integration possible from within Kodi as well. H265 decoding works when using SPMC with a near perfect 24p video refresh rate sync. Further testing reveals that when running Lubuntu / Kodi Isengard, 24p / H265 playback is smooth and very reliable at 24Hz. Its the superior choice for H265.

What really impresses is the fluid Kodi GUI speed using the OC1 compared to the RPi2, and superior deinterlacing engine on the OC1's VPU. I now use this for all broadcast mpeg2 / 25i/50i - TV viewing.

If properly synced 24p - H264 becomes possible this would completely replace my RPi2.
At the moment the OC1 makes a perfect 50Hz TV viewing and near perfect 24p / H265 Kodi platform if you don't need HD audio. Perfectly 24p video synced Netflix content is a surprise bonus.


W.

---

Further details of the HDMI fixes over in this post:
http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=...pid2013089

[wrxtasy]

Bit of an update now that HardKernel have put the HDMI fixed Kernels on their servers....

I'm now running a slick Triple Boot - Android 4.4.2 / OpenElec 14.2RC / Ubuntu 14.04 LTS (Kodi Isengard Alpha2) system from a 16GB Sandisk SD card.

Android for perfectly synced 24p / 720x480p Netflix
OpenElec for reliable and fast 50 Hz TV viewing duties
Booting straight into Kodi Isengard running on Ubuntu (just like OpenElec) for slick reliable 24p HEVC decoding at 24Hz.

All selectable on reboot from the couch when using a FLIRC IR usb receiver with any IR remote you care to map the 1, 2 and 3 keystrokes to.
Works very well

http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=...=50#p91707

[ronbaby]

- both devices need either a self powered HDD or a powered usb hub to connect 2.5" HDD's.

That's just not true.

I (formerly) owned both an Odroid-C1 and an RPi2. In both cases I had a 2.0 Amp power supply. In both cases I had no trouble at all running external USB rotating media 2.5" hard drives from the things... most definitely without an external powered USB hub in either case.

[ronbaby]

Bit of an update now that HardKernel have put the HDMI fixed Kernels on their servers....

I'd be willing to bet money that there still exists no version of Kodi that will run on the C1 that can successfully play back VC-1 Blu-Ray rips without locking up.

I'd also be willing to bet that Hardkernel never even bothered to fix the grounding problem in the C1 design that prevents people from being able to use off-the-shelf HDMI cables with the thing (thus forcing everyone to fork over for their proprietary HDMI cables instead).

And lastly I'd also be willing to bet that Hardkernel still doesn't formally employ a single engineer, even part time, to make sure that Kodi and/or OpenELEC is properly ported and maintained on the C1. (This was the most disappointing thing as far as I was concerned. They snookered me into buying one and then basically abandoned the thing, software wise, after I had already plunked down my money. At least I got some of my money back by selling the effing useless thing on eBay. But I'll never buy anything from these jerks ever again.)

[katsup]

I'd also be willing to bet that Hardkernel never even bothered to fix the grounding problem in the C1 design that prevents people from being able to use off-the-shelf HDMI cables with the thing (thus forcing everyone to fork over for their proprietary HDMI cables instead).

I used an off the shelf micro HDMI cable and it worked fine. I can't comment on the other points as I do not use it for Kodi.

[noggin]

The HDMI fix is a welcome improvement, as is the quiet update to the hardware that apparently fixes the issues with CEC. (If you have a yellow sticker on your Ethernet socket apparently you have the new revision?)

However I've noticed that you don't get full field-rate de-interlacing for MPEG2 DVD ISOs - which is a bit of a deal breaker for me, as I have a lot of native interlaced concert DVDs that I need to watch at 50Hz not 25Hz.

As ever the C1 is 'so near but yet so far'. I had hoped that once the HDMI flickering issues had been fixed things would be better...

[noggin]

3) The VPU deinterlacing of the OC1 uses an Advanced motion adaptive edge enhancing de-interlacing engine resulting in superior SD and HD deinterlacing.
The RPi2 uses MMAL advanced or Bob. MMAL advanced produces sharp SD video but small jagged video artefacts are the result. This is highly noticeable when newsreaders lips are moving and very distracting. Bob deinterlacing is the alternative which results in soft edge, almost blurry SD video. Its not so bad on HD content. EDIT SD video jaggies fixed on the RPi2 with Kodi Isengard. Result OC1 deinterlacing still superior.

Do you get deinterlacing of DVD ISOs/VIDEO_TS to field-rate (i.e. 576/50i to 1080/50p?) with the C1? It appears that software rather than hardware MPEG2 decoding and deinterlacing is used - which means no VPU deinterlace, and no full field rate motion in OpenElec?

Also - there don't seem to be any Isengard OpenElec builds for the C1 yet - it seems to be taking quite a long time for new OE stuff to be ported?

[wrxtasy]

I really don't know Noggin, this is because I actually don't use the C1 as a DVD replacement playback device, anything that does not work the RPi2 takes care of. That was not what I actually bought the C1 for. HEVC, TV and a bit of Netflix and that's about it for me.

As far as OpenElec goes, it's not even an official version. The current Kodi 14.2 is a labour of love by users. Zaalare has Isengard code on Github, but progress seems slow. He's Likely waiting for at least a Isengard RC before putting too much time into it. I don't expect too much or get upset for the $35 paid as this is not a full replacement RPI2 movie playback device for me.

@ronbaby, I lhad 2.5" HDD troubles due to only using a weak iPad power supply being used.

[wrxtasy]

I'd also be willing to bet that Hardkernel never even bothered to fix the grounding problem in the C1 design that prevents people from being able to use off-the-shelf HDMI cables with the thing (thus forcing everyone to fork over for their proprietary HDMI cables instead).

- the HDMI problems are fixed via new Kernels and Firmware. The supposed grounding problem, was only that a troubleshooting discussion. Nothing more.
- the proprietary HDMI cable you talk about costs $5.70.

And lastly I'd also be willing to bet that Hardkernel still doesn't formally employ a single engineer, even part time, to make sure that Kodi and/or OpenELEC is properly ported and maintained on the C1.

Your confusing supporting Hardware with proper bootloaders, kernels, drivers, decoders and such so that an actual reliable Operating System can run on a device and make it usefull.

Kodi and OpenElec is open source software. No company has any obligation to port and maintain it, especially if hardware such as the C1 is sold that can be used for any manner of things. The RPi2 is a well known case in point. It was conceived with the intention of promoting the teaching of basic computer science in UK schools. That it happens to run Kodi so well is due to massive community support and some very talented Kodi developers with close ties to the Raspberry Pi Foundation.
The Raspberry Pi Foundation is under no obligation to port and maintain Kodi. If it happens to sell more Hardware because it runs Kodi so well due to those close ties , well then - thats a very smart move.
Profit can then can be re-invested to develop the RPi3.

The lesson here is, it pays to hardly ever be an Early adopter of brand new hardware no matter what the amount of Hype surrounding it is.
Let others who are smarter sort out all the teething issues and then purchase after a product has proven itself or you are fully aware of its limitations.

[looun]

This might be a more appropriate place, a repost from the RPI2 vs ODROID-C1 thread.
.......

Very interest review.
The support of 23.976fps with OC1 is SDK problem o hardware problem? may be available in short future?
Thanks.

[wrxtasy]

I'm going to quote a few things here as smarter people than me know where the issue lies. This 23.976fps (24p) limitation generally applies to a lot of media boxes that use cheap SoC's - System on a Chip, with integrated CPU/GPU/VPU combos mainly in the Android space. Even the new NVIDIA Shield has this lack of 24p support limitation currently...

Surely the Nvidia graphics hardware inside the chipset and GeForce drivers most be capable out 23.976p or? And if so could that mean the limitation is only in Android or the firmware?

Koying would probably know the answer.

Not a big specialist, either. If I understand the issue, it gets down to fractional HDMI clocks in kernel.
Surely nothing to do with GPU/VPU, though. It's a pure HDMI/display thing.

It is complex, the hardware should have support for the required pixel clock (HDMI PLL registers), the kernel should have support for the appropriate modelines for resolution, the audio clock has to sync (N/CTS, MCLCK) etc..

It seems a lot of the smaller SoC companies and those that use their SoC hardware in various media boxes have neither the time nor resources to provide Kernel / Firmware support so perfect 24p sync is possible. Even Intel dragged its heels and only finally got true 24p support when they released Haswell microarchitecture last year. Up till then they had the famous "Intel 24p bug".

Broadcom seem to do better. Their Broadcom Crystal HD card that came out in 2009 provided ATV1 users running Linux and Intel - Linux + Windows users with proper 1080p 24p support. And you have seen what the Broadcom Videocore GPU/VPU equipped RPi's can do as well.

I think it ultimately comes down to resources, the profit margins and the target market the Hardware is planned for in the first place. I hope NVIDIA will be the first in the Android space with the willingness and resources to provide proper 24p support. If this does eventuate and the Shield starts gobbling up Android market share from these cheap SoC manufacturers, they then might have to get their shit together and pour some resources into providing 24p support as well.

I would not count on smaller SoC manufacturers like AMlogic or Rockchip pouring resources into an Android - 24p fix any time soon.
Though like many I would be happy to be surprised.

---

And on the topic of 24p, this time with Netflix and Amlogic SoC's.

Outside select TVs, Blu-ray players and Tivo Roamio/Premiere, Amlogic S800 series SoCs are the only ones that can output 23.976 for online streams. The platform uses FFmpeg to read the AV Info frame of streams and adjusts the refresh rate. This works only for non DRM streams.

This is exactly what I see with perfect 24p sync using a Netflix GUI of 24Hz on the AMlogic S805. Pity it limits the resolution to 720x480, maybe thats a performance limit for low powered devices so they don't choke.

What is interesting too is using the Amcodec to decode HEVC(H265) with Kodi Isengard alpha2 running on Ubuntu 14.04 LTS on the C1, again at 24Hz. Results are virtually perfect 1080p / 24p video sync if I dont play around with it too much, pausing and pulling up codecs panels etc. Maybe AMlogic can actually do proper 24p sync using the new HEVC codec under Linux/Ubuntu. It certainly cannot when decoding H264 on any distro.
I will have to watch a few more TV Rips and movies and report back about 24p HEVC on the S805 under Linux/Ubuntu but at the moment results are at least visually - pretty encouraging.

[noggin]

This is exactly what I see with perfect 24p sync using a Netflix GUI of 24Hz on the AMlogic S805. Pity it limits the resolution to 720x480, maybe thats a performance limit for low powered devices so they don't choke.

Isn't the limitation to SD Netflix on cheap Android boxes to do with DRM? If they don't guarantee HDCP etc. they aren't happy about >SD resolution stuff being output?

[wrxtasy]

That would make sense too considering that only "approved" ie HDCP complianced devices get the full monty 1080p or greater Netflix experience.

[wesk05]

I would not count on smaller SoC manufacturers like AMlogic or Rockchip pouring resources into an Android - 24p fix any time soon.
Though like many I would be happy to be surprised.

I may have to disagree here. I know for a fact that Amlogic has put in a tremendous effort in getting perfect 23.976fps playback. Most of what Amlogic has implemented is based on feedback from Minix box users. It looks like Rockchip RK3288 may also get perfect 23.976 output (again due to feedback from Open Hour Chameleon users).

Isn't the limitation to SD Netflix on cheap Android boxes to do with DRM? If they don't guarantee HDCP etc. they aren't happy about >SD resolution stuff being output?

Some boxes do not have DRM implemented, but even on those that have it (Minix boxes), Netflix will only be in SD because none of them are Google certified (except Wetek Play) which is actually the stepping stone to getting Netflix HD.

[wrxtasy]

I would not count on smaller SoC manufacturers like AMlogic or Rockchip pouring resources into an Android - 24p fix any time soon.
Though like many I would be happy to be surprised.

I may have to disagree here. I know for a fact that Amlogic has put in a tremendous effort in getting perfect 23.976fps playback. Most of what Amlogic has implemented is based on feedback from Minix box users. It looks like Rockchip RK3288 may also get perfect 23.976 output (again due to feedback from Open Hour Chameleon users).

Well thats encouraging wesk05.
So is it only AMlogic Minix box users that are seeing this for the H264 codec as an example, or is it mainstreamed in AMlogic S8xxx code somewhere and other AMlogic media box sellers are just slow to implement in their Firmware ?