[wrxtasy]

A lot of AFTV users would never know about video judder until they installed Kodi and were told about the causes here on the Kodi forums. The Google Chromecast has the exact same problem watching 24p Netflix content and I'm sure there are literally millions of users that are blissfully unaware the issue even exists.

Isengard will not resolve this issue, only Amazon can by writing new firmware and video drivers. I doubt that will happen.

RPi2 time !

[JNRW]

@JNRW

Go to Settings/Video and Sounds, find resolutions like 1080 60p, 1080 50p, 720 60p, 720 50p and experiment what resolution and refresh rate works best on your monitor, display or television, whatever. Some users said that using refresh rates 60p, gives the best playback in Kodi. You can try all of them and find the best one for you.

What a great forum this is.

Many thanks indeed to everyone in general who has posted about this subject in this and other similar threads but in particular to dzigi.bau, whose suggestion I tried a few days ago.


I went into Android settings/screen (4.2.2) and under HDMI Output I had 1920 x 1080, 60p enabled. I changed that to 1920 x 1080, 50p and now I get NO juddering, stuttering, shunting, call it what you will, whatsoever.

My viewing pleasure has been immeasurably increased.

EDIT: I should have said that my box is not a Fire TV but a cheapie CS918, but the principle is the same.

[Junos]

I would try to be more clear. The most devices people get from market are RK3188 android devices with the poorest video driver implementation on MALI400 VPU. As argument I offer to anybody, to try RK3188 device on 42' television, take 60Hz refresh rate and as Junos said, it has slight judder which some people do not want to see at all. Therefore SPMC could be nice solution, thanks to Koying who made it very well, with a better video driver performance and even with a new codec in the Settings/Video/Acceleration called rklibstagefright codec, but it would be working only after small build.prop tweak. If you use tablet or phone, than you probably would not see judders on a small 7' or 10' screen. One thing more, RK3188 devices on MALI400 or MALI450 VPU just do not have video driver implementation to use option Adjust refresh rate (Settings/Video/Playback option) with the screen since it is useless, nothing would happen at all, as Rockchip said they will implement on RK3288 platforms.

Newer RK3288 quad or octa core devices, have stronger VPU processor with more stable video driver implementation and faster CPU, giving better playback of different codec. With newer technology you will probably get noticeable better video playback with no judder at all.

Kodi is highly recommended software, improving daily and so far it has the best video performance in video playback with different standards (mkv, H2764, mpeg2, mpeg4 etc.) but judder is here and some people are just perfectionist and do not want to see any judder at all.

Well I've done a fair amount of research and tinkering since I last posted on this thread and in my view the response above from Dzigi is probably the most useful piece of information on here. I have done a fair amount of testing and have installed SPMC 14.2 and as Dzigi correctly says this version of Kodi uses the rklibstagefright codec which completely eradicates the judder issue seen on the AFTV when running Kodi 14.2.

I have also installed Kodi 15.0 Beta 2 and have noticed that rklibstagefright codec is also included in this software and have noticed no judder with this version of Kodi.

One other point to mention is that I've also added some tweaks to advancedsettings.xml file which I think is important to ensure you have really good performance over the network:

<advancedsettings>
<network>
<buffermode>1</buffermode>
<cachemembuffersize>104857600</cachemembuffersize>
<readbufferfactor>4</readbufferfactor>
</network>
</advancedsettings>

The 104857600 is multiplied by 3 and allows my system to cache approx 300MB of streaming which has helped with another artifact I've noticed which seems to be related to a period of a few seconds where frames are delayed due to buffering issues.

The buffermode value of 1 states that all streaming (whether from the Internet or local) is cache using the 300MB buffer.

In summary I've eradicated all issues now by switching to a version of Kodi that uses the rklibstagefright codec; Kodi 15 Beta 2 has other issues so I'm going to roll back to SPMC 14.2 until the full release of 15 is available.

I also think the AFTV is a pretty poor device for Kodi. Had I'd known what I know now I would have bought a cheaper, vanilla Android box which handles HD video much better; such as devices based on RK3288.

These devices are also much cheaper and aren't locked into the bespoke software that's running on the AFTV.

[Junos]

People are spending money on these devices, following Wiki guides and expecting this to work and unfortunately it doesn't!

I guess I need to increase the font size on the warning for devices (wiki).

By adding to the Wiki you're encouraging people to use this platform.

Google took me straight to the AFTV Wiki page which bypasses the disclaimer, hence why I didn't see it.

There's nothing in the known issues section on the AFTV page, however the reality is there's plenty of people experiencing the same issues.

Based on what I've uncovered I think the AFTV is not a good platform to run Kodi full stop; there are simply better boxes out there with less constraints and better software/hardware.

[Ned Scott]

By adding to the Wiki you're encouraging people to use this platform.

No. That kind of bullshit is "why we can't have nice things", and I refuse to let that kind of ignorance dictate what can or cannot be placed on the wiki. The wiki manual is a collection of information that the community provides, with the intent on helping other people by sharing information. It is not a commercial endorsement or a business. It is not there to hold your hand or spoonfeed you information that you didn't research yourself. We try to do what is reasonable on our end, and the wiki manual is full of warnings about android hardware, both on the general platform level and for specific devices, but there will always be a page or a section that isn't specifically labeled. If you only look there and no where else, then yeah, you'll miss the warnings. You have only yourself to blame for that.

People get what they pay for. For $80-100 USD, the Fire TV really is one of the best options you can get. Even if there is no formal endorsement, and even if there was no wiki page made by the community, you would still have Google results showing you tons of people who are happily using Kodi on the Fire TV. I personally have one Fire TV box and 4-5 Fire TV sticks.

Just as you are now happy with your Rockchip-based box, there are people out there who will read your review, assume it supports all possible Kodi features. Only later do they find out that Netflix is a PITA to use on it, the H.265 support isn't always "complete", that the deinterlacing on any Android box is only the most basic options, or discover the occasional audio sync issues that pop up with the right combination of hardware.

For your use case, you didn't see any of those issues or they weren't noticeable. For other people's use cases, the Fire TV box is an excellent device. The Kodi wiki manual's role in all of this is to provide a space for users to share such information, in the hopes that it helps other people. That doesn't mean the burden is on the wiki. The burden is on the person researching the product they wish to buy.

[technisol]

Mmmmm, not to butt in, but I think what he meant was that since the Fire TV is explicitly listed by name, apparently without any caveats or issues, one might go to that page and simply assume there is nothing but up side as no downside is mentioned. I can certainly see how one might take it that way.

Obviously, the problem is one of maintenance, if you list something as compatible, then present caveats as they pop up, then have to go back and address them as solutions pop up and then multiply all that for every single device... UGH, a task so daunting I do not even enjoy thinking about it!

MAYBE, the solution is to explicitly place a WARNING(Danger Will Robinson!) in bright RED that one should not be a moron, and should go search the appropriate forum for any issues with the afore mentioned hardware.

Doubt it'll help much, but it gives 'em less to bitch about later.

[lovewiibrew]

Between my thread and this one, I've come to the conclusion that its just the Fire TV itself. I don't know that I would call it judder, but rather a tiny millisecond of lag every few seconds in panning scenes. I see the judder and that doesn't bother me. I also see the judder on my Win 7 PC. I don't see this tiny lag however on my Win 7 PC. Only on my Fire TV. I've watched the same scene dozens of times over and over on both the fire tv and win 7 pc and the PC is smooth while the Fire TV has problems.

[Koying]

Guys, assume that by default no Android device allows you anything else than 60p. Anything above it is an added feature, as it's beyond Android specs self.

So being able to choose 50p or 60p on AFTV is already a feature (although outside Kodi).
Amlogic/Rockchip goes beyond by allowing 24p/50p/60p switching inside Kodi.

[Ned Scott]

Between my thread and this one, I've come to the conclusion that its just the Fire TV itself. I don't know that I would call it judder, but rather a tiny millisecond of lag every few seconds in panning scenes. I see the judder and that doesn't bother me. I also see the judder on my Win 7 PC. I don't see this tiny lag however on my Win 7 PC. Only on my Fire TV. I've watched the same scene dozens of times over and over on both the fire tv and win 7 pc and the PC is smooth while the Fire TV has problems.

Are we talking about Fire TV box or Fire TV stick? I have noticed there is something that isn't the typical "judder", but something more like what you describe as lag, on the stick. My box is fine, but the sticks have gone crazy after one of the semi-recent software updates from Amazon. Even Netflix has it.

[Junos]

By adding to the Wiki you're encouraging people to use this platform.

No. That kind of bullshit is "why we can't have nice things", and I refuse to let that kind of ignorance dictate what can or cannot be placed on the wiki. The wiki manual is a collection of information that the community provides, with the intent on helping other people by sharing information. It is not a commercial endorsement or a business. It is not there to hold your hand or spoonfeed you information that you didn't research yourself. We try to do what is reasonable on our end, and the wiki manual is full of warnings about android hardware, both on the general platform level and for specific devices, but there will always be a page or a section that isn't specifically labeled. If you only look there and no where else, then yeah, you'll miss the warnings. You have only yourself to blame for that.

People get what they pay for. For $80-100 USD, the Fire TV really is one of the best options you can get. Even if there is no formal endorsement, and even if there was no wiki page made by the community, you would still have Google results showing you tons of people who are happily using Kodi on the Fire TV. I personally have one Fire TV box and 4-5 Fire TV sticks.

Just as you are now happy with your Rockchip-based box, there are people out there who will read your review, assume it supports all possible Kodi features. Only later do they find out that Netflix is a PITA to use on it, the H.265 support isn't always "complete", that the deinterlacing on any Android box is only the most basic options, or discover the occasional audio sync issues that pop up with the right combination of hardware.

For your use case, you didn't see any of those issues or they weren't noticeable. For other people's use cases, the Fire TV box is an excellent device. The Kodi wiki manual's role in all of this is to provide a space for users to share such information, in the hopes that it helps other people. That doesn't mean the burden is on the wiki. The burden is on the person researching the product they wish to buy.

I'm not sure what you mean about commercial or business endoresments? I don't see any reference to that on this thread?

"bullshit", ignorance" "refuse" and "dictate" - Ouch...Think what you like pal, no need to get upset? I was just experessing my experience with this device and following up on comments from other users.

Is this a thread and forum about Kodi because if it is I presume you're referring to Netflix as an add on to Kodi; an arbitary feature that's probably not even fully supported, with limited expectation from the user.

Several of us are talking about basic media functionality within Kodi i.e HD playback; I'm sure users are more concerned about fundamental HD playback than an add on that can probably run natively within the Android O/S anyway on the AMLogic platform.

There appears to be quite a few of us that have this issue on the ATFV, an issue that is very frustrating, due to the fact that's it's fundamental to the media experience. I'm not sure how this doesn't warrant a question being raised as to whether the device is suitable for the job; that's all I was effectively saying.

"the burden is on the user", nobody wants any burden, it's meant to be a community isn't it? Share knowledge and find the best solution, update and move on!

[Junos]

Mmmmm, not to butt in, but I think what he meant was that since the Fire TV is explicitly listed by name, apparently without any caveats or issues, one might go to that page and simply assume there is nothing but up side as no downside is mentioned. I can certainly see how one might take it that way.

Obviously, the problem is one of maintenance, if you list something as compatible, then present caveats as they pop up, then have to go back and address them as solutions pop up and then multiply all that for every single device... UGH, a task so daunting I do not even enjoy thinking about it!

MAYBE, the solution is to explicitly place a WARNING(Danger Will Robinson!) in bright RED that one should not be a moron, and should go search the appropriate forum for any issues with the afore mentioned hardware.

Doubt it'll help much, but it gives 'em less to bitch about later.

"but I think what he meant was that since the Fire TV is explicitly listed by name"

^ Effectively what is being said.

Other users have this issue and really HD playback is a fundamental feature of Kodi.

Don't get me wrong I've got around it using the new codecs in SPMC, but I think the conslusion is the AFTV may not be the best solution for Kodi.

Plus without all of the Amazon updates and bloat, a vanilla AMLogic box may give more freedom to the user in the future.

I've yet to buy one though, this time I'm going to research it inside out before taking the plunge.

[FireInMyHole]

Several of us are talking about basic media functionality within Kodi i.e HD playback; I'm sure users are more concerned about fundamental HD playback than an add on that can probably run natively within the Android O/S anyway on the AMLogic platform.

There appears to be quite a few of us that have this issue on the ATFV, an issue that is very frustrating, due to the fact that's it's fundamental to the media experience. I'm not sure how this doesn't warrant a question being raised as to whether the device is suitable for the job; that's all I was effectively saying.

I'm sorry to hear you've had a hard time with your AFTV. You are right to be frustrated and you are not alone in your frustration.

But Ned is also right, your case isn't representative of most AFTV owners, and your issue is not one that's specific to the AFTV, but a combination of circumstances. It's also true that when you select a media box today, Kodi isn't the only factor. Price is one. The remote is another. Power consumption. Noise. Customer support. Connectivity. Storage. Etc etc.

But more than that is the growing range of apps available for streaming services such as Netflix, Amazon Prime and Youtube. Of all the Kodi friendly devices available right now, the AFTV has the most mature ecosystem, certainly surpassing native Android and even Android TV. That's why it's the number one recommendation for an all round bang for buck media center. But it's not the top end of Kodi players. Nothing on the Android platform is.

Yes, there's a potential issue with frame rate conversions, which can manifest itself as "juddering" but this isn't something most of us experience. Be aware this specific phenomena is not "stuttering" or anything to do with cache or HD. It's to do with the rate at which video frames are captured, compared to the way they're displayed on your TV. You will find whatever is processing your video, be it your TV, or a HT receiver, also plays a part. As does the source that you're playing. Along with how you've configured Kodi.

The only point I'm making is please don't blame the AFTV for being the only culprit. Ease up.

[lovewiibrew]

I can tell the difference between juddering and the video stuttering and it is absolutely stuttering(even if its very slight). Most can't see it but some of us can. Ive tried hard to see it on my Win7 pc and can't. I wish I was like most people and couldn't see it. Also I have a 60" TV which is probably why I notice it more because of the big screen as opposed to my 46" which I can still see the stuttering on but not as noticeable as my 60".

I emailed Amazon telling them they needed to update their video drivers (I didn't mention Kodi or they would have just said it's unsupported). I suggest everyone else does to and perhaps they will look at updating their video drivers.

[technisol]

I can tell you that I spent several months just researching the various platforms further -after having set up a KODI installation on my android tablet and a Samsung 900X1A before I even considered a standalone android box, and then I got lucky. This involved narrowing choices down from NUCs to Chromeboxes to RaspPI to Android -mostly in order of descending price. I can't tell you exactly how I arrived at my conclusions, but I ran across posts and discussions that led me to believe the AMLogic based units were the way to go as far as KODI development went in terms of future H.265 decoding and happily found an S802 based unit that worked. When I say researched, I literally read every post I could find online as I continued to refine my searches.

This was in part happenstance as I ordered what was supposed to be an S812 based unit from a seller just starting out who was a bit clueless. At $66 USD shipped I was happy enough not to grouse about it. It came with Gotham working quite well and I was eventually lucky enough to get Isengard to install, though I never could get Helix to run on it past the installation -probably a permissions issue. Granted, I'm running @ 60Hz for my US HDTV.

I think it's still a craps shoot to some extent to expect perfection from anything less than a chromebox/NUC/PC or a proven OPENELEC/LINUX build on compatible hardware without sussing it out for yourself and that expecting a lowish end solution like an Amazon Fire to be perfect may not be realistic as it wasn't even designed for the app you're trying to run on it but a specific hardware/software combination in a closed system. It's a wonder they left the back door open -even a crack.

All that said, researching a lot of the android models is still more than a bit complex and information is spotty to say the least because of the nature of the time things are posted to the net vs. solutions and fixes that come later and don't always come later in the same forums, let alone the same threads. Most of what you'll gather from the net is negative information because the squeaky wheel gets greased. The actual greasing does not generate so much in the way of noise so one is left to ponder if issues have been fixed -hardly anyone posts to exclaim how the latest build has solved their issues compared to the number posting issues, not just here, but anywhere on the net.

[wrxtasy]

If I could offer 1 piece of advice its this:

Users should STOP trying to use 1 media playback device to satisfy all their entertainment needs.

Its a pipedream at the moment. There are too many compromises going down this path.

Need Netflix -->> get a cheap Amazon Fire TV Stick.
Need HEVC + Netflix -->> get a cheap AMlogic box -->> the most popular one that pops up on Amazon
Need very near perfect Kodi -->> get a cheap and very capable device like a RPi2.

The emphasis here is on the word Cheap.
If you get burnt and make a dud purchase you don't lose a lot of $$. Plus saving are made when its time to upgrade. And that always happens sooner rather than later.