[whitebelly]

^It does still help to be on the same circuit though, as the neutral is only bonded at the power panel and total circuit distance between adapters is a factor.

[Tinwarble]

Ah - I'm out of date. Apparently first gen Powerline stuff used conducted links only, but current stuff uses conducted and radiated links which will spread across phases? (Are they actually phases by the way - i.e. are the mains sine waves in different angular positions at a given time on the different halves?)

Yes, it's separate phases. Here in the US we have single phase, 2 phase and 3 phase (industrial).

^It does still help to be on the same circuit though, as the neutral is only bonded at the power panel and total circuit distance between adapters is a factor.

Which would only happen if you have the powerlines in the same room. Each room, even if on the same phase will go back to the breaker panel anyway. I don't think even in UK/EU that they use a single circuit for the entire home.

[noggin]

Ah - I'm out of date. Apparently first gen Powerline stuff used conducted links only, but current stuff uses conducted and radiated links which will spread across phases? (Are they actually phases by the way - i.e. are the mains sine waves in different angular positions at a given time on the different halves?)

Yes, it's separate phases. Here in the US we have single phase, 2 phase and 3 phase (industrial).

What is the phase angle between the two phases ? With 3-phase they are 120 degrees apart. Are they 180 degrees apart, with effectively a centre-tapped transformer splitting into two levels, across a common neutral?

^It does still help to be on the same circuit though, as the neutral is only bonded at the power panel and total circuit distance between adapters is a factor.

Which would only happen if you have the powerlines in the same room. Each room, even if on the same phase will go back to the breaker panel anyway. I don't think even in UK/EU that they use a single circuit for the entire home.

UK and EU are different when it comes to home wiring. The UK uses 30/32A Ring mains, with appliances having individual fuses, in addition to a 30/32A fuse or breaker for the ring. I think most EU countries use a radial system instead, without individual fuses, but a lower total current limit for the overall radial circuit. However if you track back there isn't usually a transformer in the way between different circuits?

[off topic now - how come we've had two electrical discussions this week?]

[wesk05]

What is the phase angle between the two phases ? With 3-phase they are 120 degrees apart. Are they 180 degrees apart, with effectively a centre-tapped transformer splitting into two levels, across a common neutral?
[off topic now - how come we've had two electrical discussions this week?]

It is split-phase. They are 180 degrees apart.
Yes, I am also wondering why there is so much electrical discussion on Kodi

[Tinwarble]

What is the phase angle between the two phases ? With 3-phase they are 120 degrees apart. Are they 180 degrees apart, with effectively a centre-tapped transformer splitting into two levels, across a common neutral?

It's 180 out of phase center tap.

UK and EU are different when it comes to home wiring. The UK uses 30/32A Ring mains, with appliances having individual fuses, in addition to a 30/32A fuse or breaker for the ring. I think most EU countries use a radial system instead, without individual fuses, but a lower total current limit for the overall radial circuit. However if you track back there isn't usually a transformer in the way between different circuits?

Major appliances are on separate circuits here also, all kitchen appliances have a separate circuits (as to code) whether they are 110/115V single phase or 220V 2 phase , then you also have separate circuits for things like water heaters and AC. Then any circuits that are near water (kitchen, bath, outside, etc.) are also GFI'd.

[dishe]

No matter, I'd sooner just buy a wifi dongle and deal with it. Or drill a hole in my crawl space to fish a wire. Tapping the outlets for network data has all kinds of issues in old wiring like my house, especially when going through things like timers and surge protectors which introduce distortion on the line.

But here's the thing- I started pricing it out, Pi2, case, PSU, Wifi dongle, remote control... suddenly we're not so cheap anymore. Then there are supported codecs- h.264 is great, but even basic things like Mpeg2 need additional licenses to purchase.Now its adding up to me more than some of the Android boxes, which come with all that stuff configured to work out of the box.

Boxes like the Minix products support refresh rate changes, so if I go with one of those, as I understand it, I *should* get 24p, and the extended capabilities of Android for other things (gaming, perhaps?) should I want to tinker.

I'm so sorry, I feel like I'm frustrating all you guys who have been nothing but helpful. I really don't meant to be annoying and flip-flopppy, I'm just trying to make an educated decision. But what's the advantage of the Pi2 over the Minix boxes?

[noggin]

No matter, I'd sooner just buy a wifi dongle and deal with it. Or drill a hole in my crawl space to fish a wire. Tapping the outlets for network data has all kinds of issues in old wiring like my house, especially when going through things like timers and surge protectors which introduce distortion on the line.

But here's the thing- I started pricing it out, Pi2, case, PSU, Wifi dongle, remote control... suddenly we're not so cheap anymore. Then there are supported codecs- h.264 is great, but even basic things like Mpeg2 need additional licenses to purchase.Now its adding up to me more than some of the Android boxes, which come with all that stuff configured to work out of the box.

Boxes like the Minix products support refresh rate changes, so if I go with one of those, as I understand it, I *should* get 24p, and the extended capabilities of Android for other things (gaming, perhaps?) should I want to tinker.

I'm so sorry, I feel like I'm frustrating all you guys who have been nothing but helpful. I really don't meant to be annoying and flip-flopppy, I'm just trying to make an educated decision. But what's the advantage of the Pi2 over the Minix boxes?

The Pi 2 has an incredible level of support, supports high quality multichannel audio (bitstreamed DD/DTS and PCM losslessly decoded DTS HD and Dolby True HD for all but the 1 or 2 releases with 192kHz 5.1/7.1 audio), has a much better development cycle, and also does stuff like 3D MVC. It now has high quality 1080i deinterlacing.

Having started experimenting with Android Kodi on the S805 AMlogic C1, I'm not feeling the love. Pi 2 definitely has the edge for me.

[Tinwarble]

Well, running CAT6 will always be your best bet for streaming.

As for going for a Android box, yes, the Minix should give you 24p but as stated it will fall short on other things. Currently, there is no Android box that is "all things" and if your leaning in that direction your just going to have to do some research (there's plenty of threads on devices in the forum) and find the box that is going to provide you with the features that can closely meet your needs.

With that said, unless you're in a hurry my recommendation is to wait and see what the next FW update for the Nvidia Shield ATV brings. Yes, it is probably the most expensive box on the market but if they add the features that have been requested then it will also be the only box that will meet most of the criteria of being the "All-in-One" box.

[dishe]

Thanks guys-
I'm going to research this some more over the next few days and probably make a decision over the weekend or something.

So please excuse me if I go back and forth a few more times before then!

The Pi 2 has an incredible level of support, supports high quality multichannel audio (bitstreamed DD/DTS and PCM losslessly decoded DTS HD and Dolby True HD for all but the 1 or 2 releases with 192kHz 5.1/7.1 audio), has a much better development cycle, and also does stuff like 3D MVC. It now has high quality 1080i deinterlacing.

Having started experimenting with Android Kodi on the S805 AMlogic C1, I'm not feeling the love. Pi 2 definitely has the edge for me.

Interesting. I keep hearing people say that the Pi has more support, but as someone who isn't looking for bleeding-edge features, I'm having trouble quantifying the value of that versus the lack of on-paper features for the price. My audio system is an old stereo with subwoofer or headphones (no multichannel setup). My projector is 720p. A cheap S805 MXQ is around the same price as a Fire TV Stick. What kind of love am I going to be missing?
(its an honest question, I'm not arguing- I want to know why I shouldn't want it)

[whitebelly]

Then you never had to worry about things like the 24p issue, because you'll likely not notice it anyhow. I'd say get a FireTV stick and see if it meets your needs. If not, you can sell it used and only come out a few bucks short, and move on to something else. With the FTV stick you get a remote, good wireless performance, plenty of help from the community.... and Netflix ta boot!

I assume your project takes HDMI and has audio out for your stereo... if not, then you'll likely have a problem with the FTV stick.

[dishe]

Then you never had to worry about things like the 24p issue, because you'll likely not notice it anyhow.

That's not entirely true. I have a background in media encoding and production for broadcast TV. Pulldowns and refresh rates are definitely something I notice. But I've also dealt with them on laptops and other devices attached to projectors, so if its something I could avoid, I would rather. This is my "fun setup", for the downstairs and possibly outdoors for the backyard, etc. Just because it isn't the highest-spec setup doesn't mean I don't notice judder.

But yeah- if buying a device that gets around the 24p limitation means 2-3x the price, than I'm inclined to say I can live with it.

[noggin]

Thanks guys-
I'm going to research this some more over the next few days and probably make a decision over the weekend or something.

So please excuse me if I go back and forth a few more times before then!

The Pi 2 has an incredible level of support, supports high quality multichannel audio (bitstreamed DD/DTS and PCM losslessly decoded DTS HD and Dolby True HD for all but the 1 or 2 releases with 192kHz 5.1/7.1 audio), has a much better development cycle, and also does stuff like 3D MVC. It now has high quality 1080i deinterlacing.

Having started experimenting with Android Kodi on the S805 AMlogic C1, I'm not feeling the love. Pi 2 definitely has the edge for me.

Interesting. I keep hearing people say that the Pi has more support, but as someone who isn't looking for bleeding-edge features, I'm having trouble quantifying the value of that versus the lack of on-paper features for the price. My audio system is an old stereo with subwoofer or headphones (no multichannel setup). My projector is 720p. A cheap S805 MXQ is around the same price as a Fire TV Stick. What kind of love am I going to be missing?
(its an honest question, I'm not arguing- I want to know why I shouldn't want it)

The joy of the Pi 2 is that there are very committed developers who work hard on bug fixes, keeping Kodi releases up to date (so we don't get left behind as new versions are released), and one of them is closely linked to the Pi foundation (the guys and gals who build the Pi) I think. If stuff doesn't work. They fix it. And fix it quickly. And push the fixes back to the mainline code base. They also continue to add new features (HD Audio, 3D, high quality deinterlacing etc.) The same is not true of other ARM platforms to the same degree. (Though there are some amazing devs working on the Intel platforms as well)

If you hit an issue with the Pi 2, you can post in a forum here, and someone who can fix the problem will engage with you, help you diagnose the issue, and often work a fix into a new release pretty quickly.

Don't get me wrong, there are some great people working on Android and AMLogic stuff, but they don't seem to have the same amount of time and the same critical mass of people?

[Soli]

All of the things said about the rpi2 is true, but all the platforms are now pretty well matured and function about the same. (Except the Cubox, which is only so-so) Even the Amlogic devices support the fractional refresh rates well when running Openelec. (And maybe Android as well....in the future sometime? I'm not fully up to date there)

[Tinwarble]

All platforms get bug fixes and updates at about the same rate, it's not just the RPi2.

[wesk05]

My projector is 720p. A cheap S805 MXQ is around the same price as a Fire TV Stick. What kind of love am I going to be missing?

You are not going to get any benefit from a box that can do 24p. It is highly unlikely that your projector has 24p mode. You should be OK with S805 or Fire TV stick.